Special Forces ultimate hell week

shamrock55

If pay and conditions in the army really are that bad why does anyone join up

Farawayhome

shamrock55 wrote: »

If pay and conditions in the army really are that bad why does anyone join up

The sad truth is that many of them don't have many employment options. High education levels isn't high amongst army personnel.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Farawayhome wrote: »

The sad truth is that many of them don't have many employment options. High education levels isn't high amongst army personnel.

Really?.

deisemum

It's absolutely disgraceful how badly paid the defence forces are and they cannot strike. It was shocking to hear the wifes and girlfriends on the radio describing the financial hardship army families were in.

Farawayhome

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

Really?.

Yes.

Signore Fancy Pants

Farawayhome wrote: »

The sad truth is that many of them don't have many employment options. High education levels isn't high amongst army personnel.

Just to counter this misleading statement.

1. A high standard of education is not required to join the DF.

2. A basic education level will suffice for application purposes. Medical & fitness tests along with interviews and psychometric tests will narrow the pool of applicants down, 3rd level education or not.

3. Some people join the DF (as Recruits) with 3rd level qualifications, including Level 8. Some specialists join with Level 9 or Doctorates.

4. Higher education does not automatically mean a high quality soldier.

5. Being employed as a soldier, serving the State at home and abroad does not mean you had no other employment options. Its actually quite insulting.

6. The vast majority of soldiers have at a bare minimum a Level 6 degree all the way up to PhD's. Some have multiples. You are incorrect when you state "High education levels isn't high amongst army personnel". Taking aside the appalling structure of your sentence...its just wrong.

7. The days of the village idiot or the "prison sentence or d'army option" soldier are long gone. I will admit that recruitment drives over the last few years have let a load of unsuitable types join, partly why the Organisation is falling apart.

8. Soldiering involves a vast array of complex tasks. It's actually not for "stupid" people if thats what you are insinuating. Do they exist? Of course but they are not typical.

Farawayhome

Dale Doback wrote: »

Just to counter this misleading statement.

1. A high standard of education is not required to join the DF.

2. A basic education level will suffice for application purposes. Medical & fitness tests along with interviews and psychometric tests will narrow the pool of applicants down, 3rd level education or not.

3. Some people join the DF (as Recruits) with 3rd level qualifications, including Level 8. Some specialists join with Level 9 or Doctorates.

4. Higher education does not automatically mean a high quality soldier.

5. Being employed as a soldier, serving the State at home and abroad does not mean you had no other employment options. Its actually quite insulting.

6. The vast majority of soldiers have at a bare minimum a Level 6 degree all the way up to PhD's. Some have multiples. You are incorrect when you state "High education levels isn't high amongst army personnel". Taking aside the appalling structure of your sentence...its just wrong.

7. The days of the village idiot or the "prison sentence or d'army option" soldier are long gone. I will admit that recruitment drives over the last few years have let a load of unsuitable types join, partly why the Organisation is falling apart.

8. Soldiering involves a vast array of complex taks. It's actually not for "stupid" people if thats what you are insinuating. Do they exist? Of course but they are not typical.

Most of those points I never said or alluded to! My second sentence was supposed to say: High education levels isn't common amongst army personnel. That's a fact. Nothing insulting about that. Having a degree or higher doesn't automatically make someone intelligent and not having any doesn't make someone dumb. It's just employment opportunities are limited these days without degrees sadly. Not everyone wants to do a trade or is good at it.

Signore Fancy Pants

Farawayhome wrote: »

Most of those points I never said or alluded to! My second sentence was supposed to say: High education levels isn't common amongst army personnel. That's a fact. Nothing insulting about that. Having a degree or higher doesn't automatically make someone intelligent and not having any doesn't make someone dumb. It's just employment opportunities are limited these days without degrees sadly. Not everyone wants to do a trade or is good at it.

I can only reply to what you type, however all my points are linked to that and are valid but I stand corrected on your point and I agree that opportunities are limited somewhat without one.

What is your definition of "high education levels" and what information do you have to support it?

Im genuinely curious and not being a dick, as most soldiers I meet on a daily basis have 3rd level qualifications or are currently undertaking one, that makes it common in my experience.

Do you meet many serving solders on a daily basis? I will admit that it is uncommon at the lower ranks due to their age and experience. That may be what you are getting at.

I am currently serving overseas and am undergoing an online Masters. Im in a room at the moment with 4 other guys, 3 of them have multiple Level 7, 8 and a Masters. The other one is studying his second Masters.

Higher education in the DF is actually quite common....tbh its probably because we know we need it for when we leave.

Farawayhome

Dale Doback wrote: »

I can only reply to what you type, however all my points are linked to that and are valid but I stand corrected on your point and I agree that opportunities are limited somewhat without one.

What is your definition of "high education levels" and what information do you have to support it?

Im genuinely curious and not being a dick, as most soldiers I meet on a daily basis have 3rd level qualifications or are currently undertaking one, that makes it common in my experience.

Do you meet many serving solders on a daily basis? I will admit that it is uncommon at the lower ranks due to their age and experience. That may be what you are getting at.

I am currently serving overseas and am undergoing an online Masters. Im in a room at the moment with 4 other guys, 3 of them have multiple Level 7, 8 and a Masters. The other one is studying his second Masters.

Higher education in the DF is actually quite common....tbh its probably because we know we need it for when we leave.

High education meaning above leaving cert. I'm only going on what I was told from lads I know in Cathal Brugha. They say it's not common but my information could be wrong. The lads I know just have leaving cert anyway, some not even that.

Nobelium

Farawayhome wrote: »

High education meaning above leaving cert. I'm only going on what I was told from lads I know in Cathal Brugha. They say it's not common but my information could be wrong. The lads I know just have leaving cert anyway, some not even that.

It's not the 1970/80's anymore. Most young people joining the ranks now have third level, and a lot of the soldiers that didn't when they joined a few years back are studying for third level qualifications. That's just the way society's gone.

Signore Fancy Pants

Farawayhome wrote: »

High education meaning above leaving cert. I'm only going on what I was told from lads I know in Cathal Brugha. They say it's not common but my information could be wrong. The lads I know just have leaving cert anyway, some not even that.

Must be young lads in less than 5 years. When you do a career course, part of it ensures you achieve a minor or major award in Leadership, Management & Defence Studies.

If thats what they told you, you are not wrong. They are wrong.

Cazale

Ordinary army lads posting about their experience is like a league of Ireland player posting about Ronaldo. It's not relevant to this show.

yosser hughes

Have we gone off topic a bit? I think so anyway.
Anyone else feel sorry for the last lad to be taken off the course? I can't remember his name, he was one of the oldest.
He made it through everything and just because he asked a few questions when being interrogated he failed the course.
A bit harsh I thought.
Overall I thought it was a very good show.
In fact I'm surprised it took so long for RTE to do a show like this.
Hopefully there's another one anyway.

Alf Veedersane

yosser hughes wrote: »

Have we gone off topic a bit? I think so anyway.
Anyone else feel sorry for the last lad to be taken off the course? I can't remember his name, he was one of the oldest.
He made it through everything and just because he asked a few questions when being interrogated he failed the course.
A bit harsh I thought.
Overall I thought it was a very good show.
In fact I'm surprised it took so long for RTE to do a show like this.
Hopefully there's another one anyway.

The reason for taking him off is because they felt if that was a real life situation where he was being questioned by an 'enemy', he'd have antagonised them to the point he'd possibly have been shot. In which case, removing him was fair enough.

Nobelium

Cazale wrote: »

Ordinary army lads posting about their experience is like a league of Ireland player posting about Ronaldo. It's not relevant to this show.

Gummi Bear is that you ? Don't be so sore, maybe operation transformation might take you.

Altreab2

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The reason for taking him off is because they felt if that was a real life situation where he was being questioned by an 'enemy', he'd have antagonised them to the point he'd possibly have been shot. In which case, removing him was fair enough.

That is exactly the reason that the DS gave for him been taken off. They were discussing if it was an act or just the result of what he was going through. In the end they agreed that if he had done what he did on screen in a real life situation he would have been taken out back and shot. So he had to be pulled out.
Its at the roughly 48-52 minute mark on the RTE player. *what a heap of manure that player is *

Alf Veedersane

Altreab2 wrote: »

That is exactly the reason that the DS gave for him been taken off. They were discussing if it was an act or just the result of what he was going through. In the end they agreed that if he had done what he did on screen in a real life situation he would have been taken out back and shot. So he had to be pulled out.
Its at the roughly 48-52 minute mark on the RTE player. *what a heap of manure that player is *

I don't think it mattered if it was an act or not. Their consideration of what the end result would likely have been is why he was taken out. No place for sentimentality regardless of whether it's the first examination or last.

Altreab2

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't think it mattered if it was an act or not. Their consideration of what the end result would likely have been is why he was taken out. No place for sentimentality regardless of whether it's the first examination or last.

Totally agree.

Alf Veedersane

So just finished the first season of SAS Who Fares Wins. If you liked Ultimate Hell Week you will really like it.

I think people making disparaging comments about the Irish version is because the SAS one sets the bar high. I'd reframe it and say the Irish one was good but the SAS version had more about it. Mostly because of what the DS brought to it. Not because they were necessarily better than RTE's version but because producers decided that their input would bring a lot to the show. It did.

I liked how there was a theme to the episodes. Character, Weakness, Fear etc and the talking heads with the DS staff fleshed out these themes and relevance to going through selection and in the Special Forces.

The purpose of the tasks were explained, usually by DS and sometimes by narrator. Then they become more than just physical tasks. It adds an extra dimension to it.

The humanity of the DS. They do a lot of bawling and shouting but there is more to what they do than that. No mollycoddling but as one of them said, while they're trying to peel back the bullsh*t and break them down, they're also trying to develop them where they see fit. So it might just be a comment between the shouting but it's better than just swearing at people for the sake of being angry...

I have to say that the actual direct experiences of the DS in combat zones also added a certain je ne sais quoi and it was dropped in at the right times.

Plenty of good in the RTE and a lot of scope for it to be a lot better. I don't think it should necessarily be compared with SAS but could take some things from SAS version and use it to improve the show.

And if you liked the RTE one, you'll really enjoy the SAS one.

harr

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So just finished the first season of SAS Who Fares Wins. If you liked Ultimate Hell Week you will really like it.

I think people making disparaging comments about the Irish version is because the SAS one sets the bar high. I'd reframe it and say the Irish one was good but the SAS version had more about it. Mostly because of what the DS brought to it. Not because they were necessarily better than RTE's version but because producers decided that their input would bring a lot to the show. It did.

I liked how there was a theme to the episodes. Character, Weakness, Fear etc and the talking heads with the DS staff fleshed out these themes and relevance to going through selection and in the Special Forces.

The purpose of the tasks were explained, usually by DS and sometimes by narrator. Then they become more than just physical tasks. It adds an extra dimension to it.

The humanity of the DS. They do a lot of bawling and shouting but there is more to what they do than that. No mollycoddling but as one of them said, while they're trying to peel back the bullsh*t and break them down, they're also trying to develop them where they see fit. So it might just be a comment between the shouting but it's better than just swearing at people for the sake of being angry...

I have to say that the actual direct experiences of the DS in combat zones also added a certain je ne sais quoi and it was dropped in at the right times.

Plenty of good in the RTE and a lot of scope for it to be a lot better. I don't think it should necessarily be compared with SAS but could take some things from SAS version and use it to improve the show.

And if you liked the RTE one, you'll really enjoy the SAS one.

I think the UK tv viewers have gotten to know the DS in the last number of years as they are all minor celebrities at this stage and have had various TV shows and book deals and the likes. I found the Irish a lot more edgy and raw compared to the UK version. The first series of the SAS version started out the same as the Irish one but then changed to focus on the back stories of those taking part.
I still really enjoy both but you can see the bigger budget in the SAS series.
Anybody remember the Ray Mears survival program? That’s was a cracking program.

Alf Veedersane

harr wrote: »

I think the UK tv viewers have gotten to know the DS in the last number of years as they are all minor celebrities at this stage and have had various TV shows and book deals and the likes. I found the Irish a lot more edgy and raw compared to the UK version. The first series of the SAS version started out the same as the Irish one but then changed to focus on the back stories of those taking part.
I still really enjoy both but you can see the bigger budget in the SAS series.
Anybody remember the Ray Mears survival program? That’s was a cracking program.

I hadn't seen the SAS one before the Irish one (which i did enjoy) and I wonder if it might lose something after because of the profile they got.

I don't doubt that there would be a bigger budget buy I just felt the improvements to the Irish one wouldnt really be ones of budget or being flashier. Just by bringing more nuance.

AndrewJRenko

Is it pure coincidence that the real Ranger Wing are getting dispatched to Mali for their first assignment in ten years in the weeks after the series is shown?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0609/1054297-proposal-to-deploy-arw-to-mali-to-go-to-cabinet/

arybvtcw0eolkf

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it pure coincidence that the real Ranger Wing are getting dispatched to Mali for their first assignment in ten years in the weeks after the series is shown?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0609/1054297-proposal-to-deploy-arw-to-mali-to-go-to-cabinet/

Because DF policy is decided by reality TV lol.

Nothing to do with a TV show, we've a troop commitment to Mali for a number of years now and members of the ARW serve with all our oversea's missions.

I think the difference with this Mali mission is they're going as an independent SF unit as they did in Chad and East Timor unlike (for example) Lebanon, Syria or Afghanistan where they're integrated within the unit alongside other infantry, cav, arty etc sections.

Alf I still haven't seen the SAS show, it sounds like its better TV and made easier for a civilian to understand whats going on. I'm looking at this a little differen obviously, but I can honestly say this is as real to military training as you're likely to see civilians being put through.

That's not to say that any of those contestants could step into a regular army section and operate as a soldier, not a hope.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I see RTE are inviting applicants for another season of the show, great news.

jimbobaloobob

Kian Powerful Velcro wrote: »

I see RTE are inviting applicants for another season of the show, great news.

Where will they recruit them from this time? I thought most of last seasons crew look liked the got the call through fitness facilities.

enricoh

Any way to watch this again online, i missed at least one of the episodes, cant find it on YouTube anyway

Damo 2k9

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Where will they recruit them from this time? I thought most of last seasons crew look liked the got the call through fitness facilities.

You can apply online through a fairly detailed application process, the link was on their FB page.

jimbobaloobob

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

You can apply online through a fairly detailed application process, the link was on their FB page.

Thanks not interested myself only as an observer

yosser hughes

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

You can apply online through a fairly detailed application process, the link was on their FB page.

What if you're not on Facebook? I'd never heard of this until the programme aired.

Caledonia

Felt Grace is such a loss to the Irish army.
So impressed by her.