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Lead ban

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    #362
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    As far as I can tell it's banning all lead - shotgun, rifle bullets, air rifle pellets and lead fishing weights.


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    #363
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    GooseB wrote: »
    As far as I can tell it's banning all lead - shotgun, rifle bullets, air rifle pellets and lead fishing weights.

    They want a total ban on all lead products. Its extremely difficult if not impossible to buy, proper lead bearing solder for tin work for instance. The EU classed lead as toxic back in 2018, and anything containing lead is not for sale to the public. Don't mind half the countries in the EU suffering near bankruptcy after covid or youth unemployment being through the roof in a lot of southern states, lets waste time fannying around with nonsense like the lead content of solder, or what is wetland and what isn't. Not surprised when the EU is run by unelected twits like Phil Hogan :rolleyes:.


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    #364
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    minktrapper wrote: »
    Does this include bullets as well as shotgun cartridges.

    YES!!!!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #365
    minktrapper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭minktrapper


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    YES!!!!

    I was hoping not. One would think that bullets would pose no threat to the environment.


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    #366
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭keith s


    You'd be forgiven in thinking that an anti hunting body dreamt up the whole idea.


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    #367
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Anti-gun EU Federalists dreamt this up.
    If they couldn't ban the guns , then ban the ammo and make them obsolete under the guise of the demon lead material.
    Strangely military and police ammo is EXEMPT from this ban.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #368
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    keith s wrote: »
    You'd be forgiven in thinking that an anti hunting body dreamt up the whole idea.

    The green lobby is strong in the EU. They don't like hunting, firearms in civilian hands and toxic metals, we are a gift for them.


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    #369
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    minktrapper wrote: »
    I was hoping not. One would think that bullets would pose no threat to the environment.

    They will require you to use copper bullets, copper metal is about 5 times more expensive to buy as lead, so the costs will be passed on to you.

    The whole thing is virtue signalling, there are millions of tons of lead out in the environment already, especially around europe. I wonder how many lead rifle bullets were fired in the two world wars in europe ? The Americans produced 47 billion rounds for their own and foreign use during ww2 alone, then there was ww1, and hardly a year went by with out a major conflict before that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#17th_century

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/20030520/the-great-arsenal-of-democracy


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    #370
    no_4
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭no_4


    The alternatives to lead are very expensive
    Steel can be 2x
    Bismuth h6x
    Titanium 10x ?


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    #371
    no_4
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭no_4


    The alternatives to lead are very expensive
    Steel can be 2x
    Bismuth h6x
    Titanium 10x ?


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    #372
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Looks like Sept 3rd for another round in the EU folks... The 2nd sht Sept in 2 years. Last year it was the firearms directive banning high cap mags,and making sure you carried your ammo in a locked container!
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/new-date-set-for-eu-vote-on-lead-ammunition-ban/?fbclid=IwAR0aZt4UiWs5kB1Twr2Xgx2LrzG9pNaDuaKuXirf7dvBUqh-Dt_EDxe9bWQ

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #373
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    Is there still a lack of understanding about the scope of the lead ban? That agriland.ie link and the previously posted video goes on about shooting over wetlands and it's definition.

    It's a lead ban everywhere from my understanding. The guy in the video, David Scallon from REACH, states at 5:15 into the video that he may have a legal dilemma regarding having steel shot in one pocket and lead shot in the other and being in a position of presumed guilt in that he was about to shoot the lead shot over wetland. Is it not the case that he simply will not have the lead shot in his pocket at all - it'll be banned and when the stock on the shelves dries up then that's it.

    Here's the ISSF's position - the lead ban will affect ISSF clay shooting, 10m indoor air rifle, indoor 50m rimfire and 300m target rifle. All nothing to do with wetlands. (OK, a range may be near a wetland - but it could also be indoor in a city centre). Some of those are Olympic disciplines, will we see EU nations cease to compete at these events and leave the rest of the world that still shoots standard lead ammunition to go for gold? (Probably another issue there entirely where the Olympics would love to boot out shooting sports as the Commonwealth games did in favour of other more deserving sports like artistic avocado eating or whatnot)

    https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/Ban-of-lead-in-ammunition-the-position-of-ISSF/

    I also emailed a person who works for a well known hunting and target rifle manufacturer and asked if the firearm and ammunition manufacturers within the EU had any plans to unite and lobby for this ban to be dropped or seriously amended. This is the response:

    "This is what we know and do about it:

    We and all other manufacturers are trying to make pressure on the ISSF and the DSB* in order to avoid a lead prohibition. But we do not think that we will be able to avoid a general lead prohibition as many countries support it.
    We are pretty sure that the prohibition will take place, it is only a question of how long we can postpone it :(

    Shooting will then be different....    "

    Not happy reading is it?

    *DSB= Deutscher Schutzenbund. Like a German Shooting Board I believe.


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    #374
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    GooseB wrote: »
    I
    It's a lead ban everywhere from my understanding. The guy in the video, David Scallon from REACH, states at 5:15 into the video that he may have a legal dilemma regarding having steel shot in one pocket and lead shot in the other and being in a position of presumed guilt in that he was about to shoot the lead shot over wetland. Is it not the case that he simply will not have the lead shot in his pocket at all - it'll be banned and when the stock on the shelves dries up then that's it.

    Correct...but there are stil a hell of a load of led cartridgs out there and there is the uestion of reloading[where permissible] with lead shot.

    :
    "This is what we know and do about it:

    We and all other manufacturers are trying to make pressure on the ISSF and the DSB* in order to avoid a lead prohibition. But we do not think that we will be able to avoid a general lead prohibition as many countries support it.
    We are pretty sure that the prohibition will take place, it is only a question of how long we can postpone it :(

    Shooting will then be different....    "
    Not that they botherd involving themselves in this since the start,where there was a better chance of stopping this.:rolleyes:
    *DSB= Deutscher Schutzenbund. Like a German Shooting Board I believe.
    A somewhat more active version of the UK's NRA,but considerd by many as a German old boys club.:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #375
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    no_4 wrote: »
    The alternatives to lead are very expensive
    Steel can be 2x
    Bismuth h6x
    Titanium 10x ?


    That is the real drive behind this, nothing to do with the environment, if you cant ban guns then make it so expensive that the gun owners themselves give up their guns.


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    #376
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Cupro-nickel jacketted steel bullets ? Copper jacketted steel bullets ? Both have been used before, maybe its time for a come-back.


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    #377
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    And all steel would be banned under the EU legislation as it is literally "armour piercing" ammo.:):rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #378
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    And all steel would be banned under the EU legislation as it is literally "armour piercing" ammo.:):rolleyes:

    Does it not have to be tungsten cored to be considered AP ?


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    #379
    no_4
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭no_4


    Exactly, this is the crux of it, I believe the anti shooting , anti gun lobby have funded and formed and powerful anti gun lobby of MEPs in the last few voting cycles

    How many people will be able to afford a round of clays or a few days Huntin g If a box of 12g goes up to 50 quid a box?
    And there is no mention of banning lead in It’s many other uses eg in chemical , car, shipbuilding, paints, and many other industries; that tells you all you need to know about the true motivation
    hiddenmongoose wrote: »
    That is the real drive behind this, nothing to do with the environment, if you cant ban guns then make it so expensive that the gun owners themselves give up their guns.


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    #380
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    What if anything can we do ?


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    #381
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    Contact an MEP and ask them to vote against it?
    8c33c03a6add2653196bd36425e5f30c.png


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    #382
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    Sorry, contact an MEP and ask them to vote against it?
    197817.jpg


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    #383
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    GooseB wrote: »
    Sorry, contact an MEP and ask them to vote against it?
    197817.jpg


    LOL, already done .


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    #384
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Does it not have to be tungsten cored to be considered AP ?

    Nope! Any sort of non malleable metal is considerd AP under the EU legislation.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #385
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,946 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    hiddenmongoose wrote: »
    What if anything can we do ?
    Another push on your TDs and Orgs. Tell your TDs that SF seems to be only lot taking Irish shooters anyway seriously,and if they still want a vote in 2025 ,they had better "get the lead out" on this issue .

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #386
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    no_4 wrote: »
    Exactly, this is the crux of it, I believe the anti shooting , anti gun lobby have funded and formed and powerful anti gun lobby of MEPs in the last few voting cycles

    How many people will be able to afford a round of clays or a few days Huntin g If a box of 12g goes up to 50 quid a box?
    And there is no mention of banning lead in It’s many other uses eg in chemical , car, shipbuilding, paints, and many other industries; that tells you all you need to know about the true motivation

    Lead has been banned for sale to the general public since 2018, that includes products containing lead, like solder, paint, plumbing products, etc, but there are exemptions for Aviation, medical and military uses.


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    #387
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Another push on your TDs and Orgs. Tell your TDs that SF seems to be only lot taking Irish shooters anyway seriously,and if they still want a vote in 2025 ,they had better "get the lead out" on this issue .

    We're too small a group to be bothered with. If you factor out farmers as gun owners, who generally are only concerned with firearms as a tool. The fact that most of the rest own multiple firearms, i certainly do, so how many of us are there really ? 10,000 ? 15,000 ? We can safely be thrown under the bus and Leonara or Mehole or whoever it will be can go in front of the gullible public and whitter on about being green and how good this lead ban will be for the environment, wildlife and public health.


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    #388
    meathstevie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Nope! Any sort of non malleable metal is considerd AP under the EU legislation.

    Every bullet has AP capabilities, it all depends how good the armour is and how fast and hard the bullet is.

    I absolutely agree that the agenda here has nothing to do with the presence or absence of lead but is entirely of an ideological motivation that has nothing to do with the properties of lead.


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    #389
    keith s
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭keith s


    When I look at the US and how hard it is to get any kind of change in relation to gun reform, even mention the idea and you'd be fd from a height. I genuinely used to think it was mad how they will jot give an inch, but looking at this crap, I'm starting to think they are dead right, give nothing up not an inch.


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    #390
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    keith s wrote: »
    When I look at the US and how hard it is to get any kind of change in relation to gun reform, even mention the idea and you'd be fd from a height. I genuinely used to think it was mad how they will jot give an inch, but looking at this crap, I'm starting to think they are dead right, give nothing up not an inch.

    Because you only have to look at places like New York city, where its extremely difficult to own a firearm. Thats what the Demorats want. Less or no police, Rikers island emptied, no legal gun ownership. An inch was given and the whole lot was taken.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in the election in America, no matter who wins, there will be civil war. Ol gropey Joe says you can have a shotgun, thats all you need to hunt :rolleyes:.

    https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/


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    #391
    no_4
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭no_4


    You can walk in to any builders merchants and buy rolls of lead for roofing etc, I did this myself in June when replacing lead around a bad chimney 23 kgs worth for about 70quid
    tudderone wrote: »
    Lead has been banned for sale to the general public since 2018, that includes products containing lead, like solder, paint, plumbing products, etc, but there are exemptions for Aviation, medical and military uses.


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