President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

26000 Elephants · 03-03-2017 1:40am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

But the media/democrat narrative was that Flynn was some undercover Russian agent. He made Pence look bad, that's why he was fired. Sessions won't be.

They are your words. Flynn lied. Trump dumped him to stop any further digging.

Do you have a link to an article accusing him of spying? Probably not.

Trump will probably drop Sessions to avoid any further digging, but it is too late. His recusal has given the senate a powerful leverage to force the appointment of a special prosecutor to look into this. There is no deputy AG at present, so the presumptive nominee will need to undergo confirmation hearings next month. And those Judiciary Committee members can now ask him to commit to naming a special prosecutor before voting whether to send his nomination to the full Senate

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 1:47am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

They are your words. Flynn lied. Trump dumped him to stop any further digging.

Do you have a link to an article accusing him of spying? Probably not.

There's zero chance Sessions will be dropped imo.

No-one is going to come out and directly say he's a spy for libel. It's the tone of the articles poking that's he part of some bigger picture. Just look at this headline

"Trump decries 'criminal' leaks exposing Michael Flynn's Russia cover-up"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/donald-trump-leaks-michael-flynn-russia-call

Yeah the coverup, of where he did nothing wrong according to the FBI.

26000 Elephants · 03-03-2017 1:53am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's zero chance Sessions will be dropped imo.

No-one is going to come out and directly say he's a spy for libel. It's the tone of the articles poking that's he part of some bigger picture. Just look at this headline

"Trump decries 'criminal' leaks exposing Michael Flynn's Russia cover-up"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/donald-trump-leaks-michael-flynn-russia-call

Yeah the coverup, of where he did nothing wrong according to the FBI.

That article says nothing - no hints either - that he is a spy.

who resigned after making misleading statements about conversations with the Russian ambassador,

Which is the truth. So your original charge continues to be untrue.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:03am

26000 Elephants wrote: »

That article says nothing - no hints either - that he is a spy.

Which is the truth. So your original charge continues to be untrue.

It's the narrative that's been going on since the middle of last year. The whole conspiracy is built around Trump's administration is in cahoots with Russia.If you look at the email releases, the Clinton campaign were talking about linking Trump to Russia/Putin since March of last year. It doesn't need to be said directly and that's why I said nobody is going to come right out and say it, it's what the left want people to believe.

There's nothing yet to change my mind thinking it's a pile of baloney. If and when something with substance comes out I'll change my stance.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 2:08am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Do you have anything to back that up?

Rybolovlev has a private jet as you'd expect from mega-billionaires.

His jet flew into cities on 6 occasions during the campaign.

Quote:

"On Thursday November 3, 2016 Donald Trump held a rally in Concord NC. On the same day Russian Billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev made a brief stop in Concord NC as well. He arrived in Concord around 9:20 AM and departed to Charlotte at 12:10 PM.".

There's 6 such examples where ATC records show Rybolovlev's personal plane flying in to 6 different campaign stops.

Now, if you want to tell me I've no proof they met or whatever, go ahead.

Do you think it's at least shady and worth looking into?

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:10am

wonderfullife wrote: »

Rybolovlev has a private jet as you'd expect from mega-billionaires.

His jet flew into cities on 6 occasions during the campaign.

Quote:

"On Thursday November 3, 2016 Donald Trump held a rally in Concord NC. On the same day Russian Billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev made a brief stop in Concord NC as well. He arrived in Concord around 9:20 AM and departed to Charlotte at 12:10 PM.".

There's 6 such examples where ATC records show Rybolovlev's personal plane flying in to 6 different campaign stops.

Now, if you want to tell me I've no proof they met or whatever, go ahead.

Do you think it's at least shady and worth looking into?

I'm not dismissing your viewpoint, but where did you quote that from?

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 2:18am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'm not dismissing your viewpoint, but where did you quote that from?

Registration: M-KATE Type: Airbus 319-133(CJ)
Year: 2012
Seats: 25
Value: US$ 90 million
Owners company: Ural Kali

That's the plane registered in his name and it has landed 6 times at 6 cities Donald Trump was currently in.

I've no evidence Rybolovlev was on the plane any of the 6 times but there are 6 Air Traffic Control landings.

He might have been flying hookers for parties or vodka who knows.

Just seems shady to me that nobody seems to care. Mind you, Rybolovlev is worth $9 billion and good pals with Putin not to mention the Crown Prince of Monaco and seemingly the British Royal Family.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:20am

It's definitely an interesting angle, haven't heard it before in the media though. If you think nobody seems to care now you know how I feel!

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 2:33am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It's definitely an interesting angle, haven't heard it before in the media though. If you think nobody seems to care now you know how I feel!

Just to be clear

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-28/that-85-million-painting-bought-as-an-investment-now-down-74

What this guy did was buy everything he could in his daughters name to try avoid paying his ex-wife money in the divorce. He bought $2.8 BILLION worth of art-work from private sellers at apparently 100% inflated prices. He also bought Greek Islands, NY penthouses etc.

His wife sued him for fraud (basically) and won in court. She was awarded $4.8 billion (biggest settlement ever).

My only point is nobody is sure how much he bought off Trump other than the Florida house and nobody is sure where the money went.

But the fact he's great pals with Putin and Wilbur Ross.....and the fact he keeps randomly flying in to cities Trump is at..... would lead me to suspect Trumps denial on ever meeting him is, ummm, suspect.

A look at his tax returns might reveal how much he got off this guy and what did he do with the money. More importantly did he decide to put all the money into Bank of Cyprus accounts..... ya know..... the Bank whose majority shareholders are Wilbur Ross and Dmitry Rybolovlev :pac:

That's the house he bought from Trump. $100 million cash. Bought it in 2008, nobody ever moved in according to local residents and he demolished it 6 months ago. To be fair, it was valued at $79 million when it was sold for....$100 million. Not crazy egregious. But weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsVv5trITrQ

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:39am

Fair points. I always leaned towards Trump not releasing his taxes was because he paid essentially none with legal loopholes, but I think the argument that he's hiding something is a legitimate one. If it was the case he paid no tax he should have released them before the primaries and explained he was a businessman and thought the government would waste them yada yada. Now it's always going to be a rib his opponents can pull at, and rightly so. Until we see them we can't know otherwise.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 2:45am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Fair points. I always leaned towards Trump not releasing his taxes was because he paid essentially none with legal loopholes, but I think the argument that he's hiding something is a legitimate one. Until we see them we can't know otherwise.

I personally think it's a vanity thing.

They probably reveal he's nowhere near as wealthy as he makes out, which for a guy like Trump would be a blow to his ego.

But I'd still like to see how much he owes Russians and the Bank of Cyprus in particular. If he owes the Bank of Cyprus a lot of money then it's murky waters, not least because the guy who was in charge of the bank at the time Ross invested was Vladimir Strzhalkovsky, who was funnily enough Putin's commander in the KGB.

While on the topic, Deustche Bank were fined $630 million by the US for laundering $10 billion of Russian money and most of that money ended up going through the Bank of Cyprus.

I'd just like to see if he owes that bank a lot of money. If he doesn't, and he's just trying to hide the fact he's not as rich as he claims, then no big deal.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:48am

wonderfullife wrote: »

I personally think it's a vanity thing.

They probably reveal he's nowhere near as wealthy as he makes out, which for a guy like Trump would be a blow to his ego.

But I'd still like to see how much he owes Russians and the Bank of Cyprus in particular. If he owes the Bank of Cyprus a lot of money then it's murky waters, not least because the guy who was in charge of the bank at the time Ross invested was Vladimir Strzhalkovsky, who was funnily enough Putin's commander in the KGB.

While on the topic, Deustche Bank were fined $630 million by the US for laundering $10 billion of Russian money and most of that money ended up going through the Bank of Cyprus.

I'd just like to see if he owes that bank a lot of money. If he doesn't, and he's just trying to hide the fact he's not as rich as he claims, then no big deal.

There might be something more to it if he lied about it, he used the audit excuse a lot. I think he didn't pay tax, there's alot of articles about it and his legal history. But the argument that it might show up some some dirty payments or what not is definitely something I can buy into and argue. Running for President must be insane... the frog you kicked when you were 5 years old would be a front page story. If he is hiding things he's done well so far.

MadYaker · 03-03-2017 2:53am

Considering all the other controversies during the campaign and since the inauguration I doubt his tax returns showing that he paid barely any tax would make much of a difference at this stage. Most people have already assumed that that is the case. I think there's another reason for him not releasing them but who knows.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 2:55am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There might be something more to it if he lied about it, he used the audit excuse a lot. I think he didn't pay tax, there's alot of articles about it. But the argument that it might show up some some dirty payments or what not is definitely something I can buy into and argue. Running for President must be insane... the frog you kicked when you were 5 years old would come out. If he is hiding things he's done well so far.

Yep. I think he might be shady to the point of Bernie Madoff possible-levels. I really do. But, like Madoff, these things take years to come out (if at all).

I'm not trying to be hysterical or conspiracy theorist here but I honestly, genuinely believe that the GOP are very aware the skeletons in Trumps closet may lead to impeachment.

In fact, I think that's the GOP would much prefer a proper conservative "company man" in Pence to take them through regulatory repeals, tax cuts, healthcare reform, SCOTUS reform etc.

Nobody can convince me that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell want Trump over Pence.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:56am

MadYaker wrote: »

Considering all the other controversies during the campaign and since the inauguration I doubt his tax returns showing that he paid barely any tax would make much of a difference at this stage. Most people have already assumed that that is the case. I think there's another reason for him not releasing them but who knows.

When Kellyanne came out and said that he won't be releasing them the narrative changed for sure. I still believe if there was some underhanded dealings it would be common knowledge by now. These days you can't hide anything, especially when the Intel agencies are gunning for him and they have access to everything. The only thing that makes sense is some offshore banks, which the media were conspiring to for a while but it quickly died down. The tax thing is one of the few things his detractors can pummel in his face and his defenders can't defend it.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 2:59am

wonderfullife wrote: »

Nobody can convince me that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell want Trump over Pence.

Most of Trumps hardline supporters despise Ryan, McConnell, McCain etc from what I've seen online.

MadYaker · 03-03-2017 3:02am

I'm surprised he's lasted as long as he has when he has made enemies of the entire intelligence community and the entire mainstream media. Not to mention all the people inside his own administration who've been leaking material and clearly want him gone. I think it'll be death by 1000 cuts for him eventually.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 3:03am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Most of Trumps hardline supporters despise Ryan, McConnell, McCain etc from what I've seen online.

Yep but how many of them are there? On Twitter it's a vocal majority of Trump hardliners but most of them are Russian bots - for example during his address to congress, 14% of all pro-Trump traffic on Twitter came from egg-bots and an analysis of twitter polls showed them inundated with traffic.

I think if you're talking in general terms that a lot who voted for Trump would gladly take Pence.

It's kinda strange but I think it'd be a relief for everyone (Dems, Repubs, the world) for Pence to take over. Trump is too reactionary and that's the nicest thing I can say for him.

Actually scratch that - the nicest thing I can say is I genuinely enjoyed him when he was just a celebrity buffoon. He made me laugh.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:04am

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yep but how many of them are there? On Twitter it's a vocal majority of Trump hardliners but most of them are Russian bots - for example during his address to congress, 14% of all pro-Trump traffic on Twitter came from egg-bots and an analysis of twitter polls showed them inundated with traffic.

I think if you're talking in general terms that a lot who voted for Trump would gladly take Pence.

It's kinda strange but I think it'd be a relief for everyone (Dems, Repubs, the world) for Pence to take over. Trump is too reactionary and that's the nicest thing I can say for him.

Actually scratch that - the nicest thing I can say is I genuinely enjoyed him when he was just a celebrity buffoon. He made me laugh.

I strongly disagree with that. Honestly. If Trump got culled illegitimately they'd be civil war or at least very violent marches in huge numbers.

MadYaker · 03-03-2017 3:05am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Most of Trumps hardline supporters despise Ryan, McConnell, McCain etc from what I've seen online.

They just hate anyone who says anything bad about Trump. See the way they turned on GWB after he made those comments about the MSM? and GWB didn't even mention Trump by name. r/The_Donald was full of posts calling him a cuck and anything else they could think of.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:05am

MadYaker wrote: »

I'm surprised he's lasted as long as he has when he has made enemies of the entire intelligence community and the entire mainstream media. Not to mention all the people inside his own administration who've been leaking material and clearly want him gone. I think it'll be death by 1000 cuts for him eventually.

I'm not surprised for the most part, he's tough. Even if you hate him or whatever you have to say he's hard as nails.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 3:06am

MadYaker wrote: »

I'm surprised he's lasted as long as he has when he has made enemies of the entire intelligence community and the entire mainstream media. Not to mention all the people inside his own administration who've been leaking material and clearly want him gone. I think it'll be death by 1000 cuts for him eventually.

I know John Schindler left the NSA under a cloud but he's still connected up to his neck.

And he received a text from Intel Community saying:

"(Trump) will die in jail".

They have all the dirt they need on him. It's just timing now.

No coincidence this latest wave of information was released after Trump used the widow of the SEAL in his address. The IC were like "F this guy" and suddenly every left-leaning news outlet had their phone ringing off the hook with leaks!

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:08am

wonderfullife wrote: »

I know John Schindler left the NSA under a cloud but he's still connected up to his neck.

And he received a text from Intel Community saying:

"(Trump) will die in jail".

They have all the dirt they need on him. It's just timing now.

No coincidence this latest wave of information was released after Trump used the widow of the SEAL in his address. The IC were like "F this guy" and suddenly every left-leaning news outlet had their phone ringing off the hook with leaks!

I think they have nothing, time will tell. If they had it, it would have come out before the election.

MadYaker · 03-03-2017 3:08am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'm not surprised for the most part, he's tough. Even if you hate him or whatever you have to say he's hard as nails.

Absolutely. I've never seen anyone who gives less fúcks than Trump elected to a public office. It's one of the few things I admire about him.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:15am

MadYaker wrote: »

Absolutely. I've never seen anyone who gives less fúcks than Trump elected to a public office. It's one of the few things I admire about him.

That's why I'll support him until/if he gets nailed. Le Pen did something similar earlier today calling out Merkel to her face in a live hearing. In the world of political correctness I find it all refreshing. It's new and to a large extent "real".

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 3:19am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I think they have nothing, time will tell. If they had it, it would have come out before the election.

It didn't come out before the election for a very, very simple reason.

Nobody in their right mind believed Trump would win. Every opinion poll showed him getting battered.

The Intelligence Community would be giving up a ton of leverage if they released the dirt on Trump before the election for a candidate they fully expected to lose.

They held on to it on the off-chance he won. Now they have Trump by the balls and it's a question of what do they actually want.

I'd argue what they actually wanted was Flynn gone (tick), guys they could work for coming in - McMaster (tick), Fiona Hill (tick, almost - http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/02/trump-taps-putin-critic-for-senior-white-house-position/). She's a former intel-community girl and fierce critic of Putin.

No coincidence.

They'll just keep dripping what they have on Trump until they get exactly what they want. If they don't, they'll take him down.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 3:23am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

That's why I'll support him until/if he gets nailed. Le Pen did something similar earlier today calling out Merkel to her face in a live hearing. In the world of political correctness I find it all refreshing. It's new and to a large extent "real".

You might find it "real" but most people find that Trump and Le Pen appeal to the worst in humanity. They don't seek unity or hope. They appeal to those for whom racism, xenophobia etc appeals.

Which is, of course, not to say that every Trump fan is a racist or xenophobe. But the vast majority of his hardcore fans are anti-Islam, anti-Mexican, anti-BLM, pro-"white culture" (whatever that means) and "Christian" - which is to say they claim to be Christian while holding terribly un-Christian values.

But yeah you're correct, a lot of people like the fact they cut through the political jargon and waffle and don't worry how many 'snowflakes' they upset!

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:24am

wonderfullife wrote: »

Nobody in their right mind believed Trump would win. Every opinion poll showed him getting battered.

No coincidence.

They'll just keep dripping what they have on Trump until they get exactly what they want. If they don't, they'll take him down.

I believed he would win. I didn't buy into the media polls, I bet on him! I watched his rallies and seen what was going on. Honestly it was amazing, 30 minutes after his last rally he tweeted to have another in Michigan and it got like 20-30k people at 1am in the morning with short notice.

Have to disagree on the coincidence point, if they had something damning they've have released it. By all the rights the Pussy tape should have finished him, but it didn't. What's the worst case scenario right now, Trump gets impeached and Pence takes over for the next 4 years? vs The Republicans lose the election and Hillary or whoever gets in. I doubt that was their ultimate goal if they're sitting on it. Imo they don't have anything.

wonderfullife · 03-03-2017 3:29am

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I believed he would win. I didn't buy into it, I watched his rallies and seen what was going on.

Have to disagree on the coincidence point, if they had something damning they've have released it. By all the rights the Pussy tape should have finished him, but it didn't. What's the worst case scenario right now, Trump gets impeached and Pence takes over for the next 4 years? vs The Republicans lose the election and Hillary or whoever gets in. I doubt that was their ultimate goal if they're sitting on it.

Why release all they have on Trump right now? Why not see what they can get from him first?

That's how this stuff works in life. Intelligence Community have the dirt on Trump and they can either release it all now and get Trump impeached OR leverage it against him to get what they want.

Fiona Hill is the most un-Trump like pick. She's a liberal Democrat and an Intelligence Community darling.

There is not a single reason to pick a woman from the Brookings Institution other than to appease the Intel Community with one of "their picks". She's a British dual-national liberal and now somehow lands a prime job in Trump Land.

The leaks have value. They'll drip them until Trump stops playing ball.

Hank Scorpio · 03-03-2017 3:31am

wonderfullife wrote: »

You might find it "real" but most people find that Trump and Le Pen appeal to the worst in humanity. They don't seek unity or hope. They appeal to those for whom racism, xenophobia etc appeals.

Which is, of course, not to say that every Trump fan is a racist or xenophobe. But the vast majority of his hardcore fans are anti-Islam, anti-Mexican, anti-BLM, pro-"white culture" (whatever that means) and "Christian" - which is to say they claim to be Christian while holding terribly un-Christian values.

But yeah you're correct, a lot of people like the fact they cut through the political jargon and waffle and don't worry how many 'snowflakes' they upset!

I don't believe that's true at all. Also I don't believe having problems with Islam is a flaw, the ideology is very flawed and hate orientated, something which Christianity, as flawed as it might be, has overcome in the last couple of decades.

My stance, I'm sick of the corruption and the Clinton "machine." Trump is flawed but he hits hard, and I can relate to it.

President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

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