Shorted Stocks

JazzyJ · 28-01-2021 5:08pm

Gamestop absolutely tanking now

dpforce · 28-01-2021 5:20pm

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

But the brokers stopped the buying so aren't facilitating it, that's what I mean

Nope. There are mechanisms in place to halt trading when security becomes too volatile.

Dickerty · 28-01-2021 5:29pm

There should be class action suits by everyone who was stopped from buying these valid stocks (but allowed to SELL!) before they ceased trading. That's market manipulation, and illegal. And it's no coincidence that it all stopped on the same day - all the apps/sites, all the brokers,all at once? Absolute bull.

Jimbobjoeyman · 28-01-2021 5:38pm

Dickerty wrote: »

There should be class action suits by everyone who was stopped from buying these valid stocks (but allowed to SELL!) before they ceased trading. That's market manipulation, and illegal. And it's no coincidence that it all stopped on the same day - all the apps/sites, all the brokers,all at once? Absolute bull.

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

Dickerty · 28-01-2021 5:48pm

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Bodjhrjekekr · 28-01-2021 5:48pm

dpforce wrote: »

Nope. There are mechanisms in place to halt trading when security becomes too volatile.

They didn't halt trading (selling + buying), i would not have an issue with that

dotsman · 28-01-2021 5:49pm

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

Yes, the wallstreetbets phenomenon is a form of market manipulation. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with it. From a WSB perspective, though, it is "ethical" manipulation, as opposed to the more traditional pump and dump.

However, the response by the likes of Robinhood is a far, far worse form of market manipulation. Ceasing all trades would be bad enough, but only allowing selling is forcing the price to plummet, thus ensuring that their own small-time customers lose their shirts while the large professional traders make a mint.

If the last few days has given everyone a surprise/shock, the events of today are crazier and have massive ramifications going forward. Hopefully, Robinhood will be destroyed by this. It is crucial, from a transparency and fairness perspective that it is. I cannot think of a worse thing that they could have done.

Cute Hoor · 28-01-2021 5:57pm

The cowboys have circled the wagons, they saw the indians coming

Jimbobjoeyman · 28-01-2021 6:07pm

Dickerty wrote: »

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Id argue the organised short squeeze flirts with legality.
This in itself could be enough to close part of the market.

The issue wasn't on the sell side of the market.
If that was gamestops real value you wouldn't see the massive decline in value and mass exodus that's driving the price down again.
Stopping buying doesn't force the market down.
If that was the real value of the stock those holding it would be happy to hold on.

Don't think its that much of a manipulation on the side of the broker.
It's just the compliance department there attempting to stop an investigation or limit the impact of the SEC.
They're still allowing people out with the profit from the short sell the only people getting the rough end of the stick are the chumps that were late to the party providing liquidity to the organisers leaving and the people with short positions that haven't hedged(albeit I imagine most of them have been knocked out on margin/breathing a sigh of relief seeing the price going down again if still in the position)

Jimbobjoeyman · 28-01-2021 6:12pm

Dickerty wrote: »

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Nothing to do with volatility.
It's a market that was warped in an organised manner.
Market manipulation is illegal which is what this was.

Only person the broker is protecting is the broker.
One hedge fund fails another replaces it; happens all the time and most funds fail within 5 years anyway.

Dickerty · 28-01-2021 6:13pm

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

dohboy · 28-01-2021 6:21pm

Dickerty wrote: »

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

Can you buy these stocks from Ireland though? I was under the impression you couldn't... (not that I know much tbh, just following the story)

TheMilkyPirate · 28-01-2021 6:24pm

Dickerty wrote: »

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

I bought on Revolut 30 minutes ago.

dotsman · 28-01-2021 6:25pm

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

The issue wasn't on the sell side of the market.

Stopping buying doesn't force the market down.

Of course "stopping buying" forces the market down. Especially on an extremely volatile stock. Every trade requires a buyer and a seller. When a large proportion of the would-be buyers are prevented from participating, sellers now greatly outweigh the buyers, thus the price tanks.

As the price tanks, and with no buyers to stop the decline, more people become sellers as the price goes below their comfort zone. As more people see this, and also see how the game is completely and blatantly being rigged against them, they too sell, forcing the price even lower.

The whole purpose of preventing buyers is to force the price to collapse.

The only people benefiting from this move are those holding short positions in GME/AMC etc who are absolutely laughing their asses off and signing songs of praise about robinhood. It is absolutely disgusting what that broker did to its customers. I really do hope they pay the price in the end. There needs to be some accountability for their actions.

Dickerty · 28-01-2021 6:27pm

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

I bought on Revolut 30 minutes ago.

Really? My trade was declined there a few hours ago...

Yep, looks like it's back up! And now I can buy at 270 instead of 370!

Jin luk · 28-01-2021 6:31pm

Trading 212 was working for me at open haven't checked since?

$bb

TheMilkyPirate · 28-01-2021 6:32pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Really? My trade was declined there a few hours ago...

Yep, looks like it's back up! And now I can buy at 270 instead of 370!

Yep I got in at 207

Jimbobjoeyman · 28-01-2021 6:35pm

dotsman wrote: »

Of course "stopping buying" forces the market down. Especially on an extremely volatile stock. Every trade requires a buyer and a seller. When a large proportion of the would-be buyers are prevented from participating, sellers now greatly outweigh the buyers, thus the price tanks.

As the price tanks, and with no buyers to stop the decline, more people become sellers as the price goes below their comfort zone. As more people see this, and also see how the game is completely and blatantly being rigged against them, they too sell, forcing the price even lower.

The whole purpose of preventing buyers is to force the price to collapse.

The only people benefiting from this move are those holding short positions in GME/AMC etc who are absolutely laughing their asses off and signing songs of praise about robinhood. It is absolutely disgusting what that broker did to its customers. I really do hope they pay the price in the end. There needs to be some accountability for their actions.

Exactly you've just said it yourself.
When the sellers outweigh the buyers the market tanks.

If gamestop was fairly priced people would be happy to hold on until the market opens again to sell at a fair price; there wouldn't be enough sellers for the market to tank.
Note I'm using the term fair here.

Gamestop is not at a fair price and people are trading based on a distorted market.
I don't think robinhood care too much about who's holding what to be honest.

I guess at the end of the day play with fire and you'll get burnt

Cute Hoor · 28-01-2021 6:40pm

When you think about it what some brokers are doing today is nothing short of disgraceful, and I would hazard a guess at illegal. The only reason that they should prevent client’s trading on whatever stock they wish is if the client doesn’t have sufficient funds or there are technical issues with their platform, fine if they want to protect clients they could post a warning. Fortunately I haven’t been impacted by it but THE WHOLE THING STINKS

dotsman · 28-01-2021 6:49pm

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

Exactly you've just said it yourself.
When the sellers outweigh the buyers the market tanks.

If gamestop was fairly priced people would be happy to hold on until the market opens again to sell at a fair price; there wouldn't be enough sellers for the market to tank.
Note I'm using the term fair here.

Gamestop is not at a fair price and people are trading based on a distorted market.

But what is a fair price? Is it not the price agreed between a buyer and a seller in an open market where there is full transparency and equal access to information? Whether it is $1 or $1,000?

Remember, there is a massive difference between "value" and "a fair price".

Robinhood's actions have been to distort that market to promote selling and prevent buying. Therefore, for example people wanted to buy @ $350, but were prevented, thus the seller had to lower their price to $345. Again, there were (even more) people who wanted to buy at that price but Robin hood wouldn't let them, so the seller had to lower their price again and again etc. As per above, that triggers more people to sell, thus the price crashes as has happened today.

Robinhood intentionally caused a tremendous amount of money to be lost by its customers today.

Jim2007 · 28-01-2021 7:37pm

Robinhood's actions have been to distort that market to promote selling and prevent buying.

That is not how it works. There have been articles on this and I mentioned as well at one stage. Discount brokers make up for the free/discounted trades by winning a commission for transaction routing, it is not illegal. In most cases people will not notice it, except in situations like to this, when there is no one wanting to bid on the trade.

The lesson here is that if one wants to play a hit stakes game that needs responsive access to the market, don't expect to get it via a discount broker.

Irishder · 28-01-2021 8:02pm

Crazy day i bought AMC at $15 earlier then they all apps stopped selling it. Interesting to see when they allow trading again and what happens if its tomorrow

Birneybau · 28-01-2021 8:28pm

Irishder wrote: »

Crazy day i bought AMC at $15 earlier then they all apps stopped selling it. Interesting to see when they allow trading again and what happens if its tomorrow

Bought 13 AMC at about $10. Just for the craic.

daheff · 28-01-2021 9:48pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Discount brokers make up for the free/discounted trades by winning a commission for transaction routing, it is not illegal

But if the broker isn't facilitating trades they are reducing volume and preventing their own commission, right? Stopping people trading isn't then in their own interests.

I don't think it's illegal for the brokers to stop trading a particular stock in the normal course of events. I would hazard a guess that there's something in the agreements people sign up to that allows them to stop providing a service for that share.

BUT in this case I do think that there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than is being told. The links between brokers and shorted hedge funds and how stopping buying suits those hedge funds stinks big time.

Atlantic Dawn · 28-01-2021 9:53pm

New Concept Energy up 1000% today, more shenanigans?

Shedite27 · 28-01-2021 10:01pm

daheff wrote: »

But if the broker isn't facilitating trades they are reducing volume and preventing their own commission, right? Stopping people trading isn't then in their own interests.

I don't think it's illegal for the brokers to stop trading a particular stock in the normal course of events. I would hazard a guess that there's something in the agreements people sign up to that allows them to stop providing a service for that share.

BUT in this case I do think that there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than is being told. The links between brokers and shorted hedge funds and how stopping buying suits those hedge funds stinks big time.

You're completly right.

There's no way Robinhood does this on its own, so much bad PR, and knows it pisses off its customers, right before IPO.

If the SEC is worried about GME/AMC, they should have halted trading for all. Many on here had Luckin Shares sitting in their account for 6 weeks last year that we couldn't buy or sell while they figured out what to do with them.

Cutting off the ability to buy only, for some brokers only, stinks.

Cute Hoor · 28-01-2021 10:24pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

New Concept Energy up 1000% today, more shenanigans?

What was that all about, went to $27, now back down to $16

ardinn · 28-01-2021 10:50pm

Can you buy crypto on revolut?

Also big question here - Can you lose more than your original investment?

If I buy €200 worth of stock, can it depreciate to less than €200 causing me to lose more than €200?

That might be a silly Q but just to be sure to be sure!

dan786 · 28-01-2021 10:53pm

ardinn wrote: »

Can you buy crypto on revolut?

Also big question here - Can you lose more than your original investment?

If I buy €200 worth of stock, can it depreciate to less than €200 causing me to lose more than €200?

That might be a silly Q but just to be sure to be sure!

Yes you can buy BTC, Litecoin, Eth, Ripple, Stellar, Tezos, EOS , 0x, OMG and Bitcoin Cash on Revolut

No you cant lose more than 100%

Kilboor · 28-01-2021 10:53pm

ardinn wrote: »

Can you buy crypto on revolut?

Also big question here - Can you lose more than your original investment?

If I buy €200 worth of stock, can it depreciate to less than €200 causing me to lose more than €200?

That might be a silly Q but just to be sure to be sure!

No you can't loss more than your investment if you're buying a share.

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