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Shorted Stocks

Cute Hoor

I am going to suggest that we have a separate topic for the Shorting phenomena, and leave the Share Picks 2021 for the normal run of the mill stuff, might make it easier to follow both.

Feel free to ignore my suggestion of course

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Dickerty

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

I bought on Revolut 30 minutes ago.

Really? My trade was declined there a few hours ago...

Yep, looks like it's back up! And now I can buy at 270 instead of 370!

dotsman

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

The issue wasn't on the sell side of the market.

Stopping buying doesn't force the market down.

Of course "stopping buying" forces the market down. Especially on an extremely volatile stock. Every trade requires a buyer and a seller. When a large proportion of the would-be buyers are prevented from participating, sellers now greatly outweigh the buyers, thus the price tanks.

As the price tanks, and with no buyers to stop the decline, more people become sellers as the price goes below their comfort zone. As more people see this, and also see how the game is completely and blatantly being rigged against them, they too sell, forcing the price even lower.

The whole purpose of preventing buyers is to force the price to collapse.

The only people benefiting from this move are those holding short positions in GME/AMC etc who are absolutely laughing their asses off and signing songs of praise about robinhood. It is absolutely disgusting what that broker did to its customers. I really do hope they pay the price in the end. There needs to be some accountability for their actions.

TheMilkyPirate

Dickerty wrote: »

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

I bought on Revolut 30 minutes ago.

dohboy

Dickerty wrote: »

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

Can you buy these stocks from Ireland though? I was under the impression you couldn't... (not that I know much tbh, just following the story)

Dickerty

If anyone happens to see the apps opening up to buying these stocks again, please let the forum know!

Jimbobjoeyman

Dickerty wrote: »

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Nothing to do with volatility.
It's a market that was warped in an organised manner.
Market manipulation is illegal which is what this was.

Only person the broker is protecting is the broker.
One hedge fund fails another replaces it; happens all the time and most funds fail within 5 years anyway.

Jimbobjoeyman

Dickerty wrote: »

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Id argue the organised short squeeze flirts with legality.
This in itself could be enough to close part of the market.

The issue wasn't on the sell side of the market.
If that was gamestops real value you wouldn't see the massive decline in value and mass exodus that's driving the price down again.
Stopping buying doesn't force the market down.
If that was the real value of the stock those holding it would be happy to hold on.

Don't think its that much of a manipulation on the side of the broker.
It's just the compliance department there attempting to stop an investigation or limit the impact of the SEC.
They're still allowing people out with the profit from the short sell the only people getting the rough end of the stick are the chumps that were late to the party providing liquidity to the organisers leaving and the people with short positions that haven't hedged(albeit I imagine most of them have been knocked out on margin/breathing a sigh of relief seeing the price going down again if still in the position)

Cute Hoor

The cowboys have circled the wagons, they saw the indians coming

dotsman

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

Yes, the wallstreetbets phenomenon is a form of market manipulation. I don't think anybody is disagreeing with it. From a WSB perspective, though, it is "ethical" manipulation, as opposed to the more traditional pump and dump.

However, the response by the likes of Robinhood is a far, far worse form of market manipulation. Ceasing all trades would be bad enough, but only allowing selling is forcing the price to plummet, thus ensuring that their own small-time customers lose their shirts while the large professional traders make a mint.

If the last few days has given everyone a surprise/shock, the events of today are crazier and have massive ramifications going forward. Hopefully, Robinhood will be destroyed by this. It is crucial, from a transparency and fairness perspective that it is. I cannot think of a worse thing that they could have done.

Bodjhrjekekr

dpforce wrote: »

Nope. There are mechanisms in place to halt trading when security becomes too volatile.

They didn't halt trading (selling + buying), i would not have an issue with that

Dickerty

Jimbobjoeyman wrote: »

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

But brokers and banks make money on volatility, not on share price. So the only reason to cease trading is because of some potential illegal act by market makers (not happening here, unless you could the original shorting!), or some technical issue maybe. This was brought down from within by a systematic decision to protect the big players.

Jimbobjoeyman

Dickerty wrote: »

There should be class action suits by everyone who was stopped from buying these valid stocks (but allowed to SELL!) before they ceased trading. That's market manipulation, and illegal. And it's no coincidence that it all stopped on the same day - all the apps/sites, all the brokers,all at once? Absolute bull.

I might be mistaken but I'd be fairly certain there are laws that prohibit individuals organizing in an attempt to actively distort the market and pricing for short term gain.
I know for a fact if institutional investors grouped to do this there would be securities fraud and market manipulation investigation.
What went on with these stocks is also market manipulation in the exact same way.

No surprise the brokers called time on this.

Dickerty

There should be class action suits by everyone who was stopped from buying these valid stocks (but allowed to SELL!) before they ceased trading. That's market manipulation, and illegal. And it's no coincidence that it all stopped on the same day - all the apps/sites, all the brokers,all at once? Absolute bull.

dpforce

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

But the brokers stopped the buying so aren't facilitating it, that's what I mean

Nope. There are mechanisms in place to halt trading when security becomes too volatile.

JazzyJ

Gamestop absolutely tanking now

Bodjhrjekekr

dpforce wrote: »

Brokers only facilitate trade between buyers and sellers.
The way short selling works - after securing required position, short sellers go public and start promoting their side of the story in a hope to change market sentiment to drive price down. Unfortunately for them - some fellas on reddit decided to go against them. But then big boys with deep pocket joined the show to make money at short sellers expense.
Also need to take into consideration how options sellers hedging their exposure.

But the brokers stopped the buying so aren't facilitating it, that's what I mean

dpforce

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

so basically there could have been collusion with some hedge funds and brokers? Hedge funds shorted these stocks for today, brokers stopped buying so had to sell? I mean its a theory but some serious market manipulation went on - all hope is with GME now I think lol

Brokers only facilitate trade between buyers and sellers.
The way short selling works - after securing required position, short sellers go public and start promoting their side of the story in a hope to change market sentiment to drive price down. Unfortunately for them - some fellas on reddit decided to go against them. But then big boys with deep pocket joined the show to make money at short sellers expense.
Also need to take into consideration how options sellers hedging their exposure.

growleaves

crushproof wrote: »

Moral of story, don't fk with Wall Street

Lol

In this case Wall Street could not rescue itself without exposing its manipulation of the markets.

Gwanoman

Fair play to the people who took on Wall Street I say..

AMC down to 7$. I sincerely hope these guys weren't in up to their necks and if they bought low, they can still get out with a win...

crushproof

Moral of story, don't fk with Wall Street

Bodjhrjekekr

is_that_so wrote: »

Here's a BBC update, now other targets as well it seems.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55837519

From that article "Regulators are watching" - I hope they bloody are!!

Bodjhrjekekr

so basically there could have been collusion with some hedge funds and brokers? Hedge funds shorted these stocks for today, brokers stopped buying so had to sell? I mean its a theory but some serious market manipulation went on - all hope is with GME now I think lol

bluemachaveli

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

degiro have suspended buying for amc and gme

I got a message saying you can only buy with limit orders. Should still work with that.

is_that_so

Here's a BBC update, now other targets as well it seems.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55837519

Dickerty

It was a DELIBERATE action by multiple trading apps/sites to block buy actions on Gamestop stock, so many casual traders panicked and sold. They knew the volatility would work to stop the trading.

Market manipulation against the masses!

JazzyJ

dpforce wrote: »

$200 move up on very light volume. I would bet on huge spike on the charts by the end of the day.
In reality - when all this madness is over, price will revert back to mean.

It's dropped about 50 since then - its all over the place.

Bikerman2019

I just bought 50 dollars via revolut to see what happens. Trade declined and money returned.

dpforce

$200 move up on very light volume. I would bet on huge spike on the charts by the end of the day.
In reality - when all this madness is over, price will revert back to mean.

rapul

Very interesting to watch from the sidelines the whole gamestop fiasco, the start of something bigger, who knows.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Lol Gamestop halted one minute after opening!