2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

eire4 wrote: »

Ahh I see because I have a different view to you I am wrong.

No problem having a difference of opinion, however you claimed there was no evidence and there clearly is.

I do not claim to have omniscient powers when it comes to the US. But nonetheless I can see that roughly half of Americans do not vote when you take the presidential and mid terms elections together. So clearly a vast swathe of Americans have given up on the system. I can also see that their system is utterly corrupted and dysfunctional with DC largely bought and paid for and that neither party has any interest in legislating for the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans.

Or that in most of the US their votes 'don't matter' due to being so red/blue/pure gerrymandering at a state level or that they are actively stopped from voting.

You mention the independent senator Bernie Sanders who ran in the last 2 presidential elections as a Democrat and did not win. Absolutely true. Although it does not prove anything about my point which is a contention that until the Democratic party stops being a corporate controlled party and returns to being an FDR style party they will continue to be what they are a corporate controlled party that legislates mostly in the wealthy's best interests and American will continue to decline overall as a country because given their system is so corrupt the alternative is a Republican party that at this point IMHO is only semi democratic party and is utterly bought and paid for by a very small group at the very top of the economic ladder.

Your last point is pure speculation. We will never know as he did nor run as the Democratic candidate with the parties full support in a general election. Personally I think he would have won in 2016 if he would of run with the full support of the Democratic party but that is pure speculation on my part also. We will never know.

A person ran on your principles, using a lot of your lines, and failed to get enough interest from the party of the left to win their nomination. You can keep blaming others but there is no evidence of your opinion having any basis in the real world.

I think his run in 2020 proved Bernie's appeal in the primaries in 2016 were a mirage. 4 years to build on his efforts and he did drastically worse.

As for your implication that you know what the US is and I do not well. Well I cannot agree with your omniscience about what the US is. We know that the US has roughly half it's population not vote so we cannot say with a certain knowledge how the US would look politically and economically if most of that half of the population did vote. What we can say with certainty is that the system is corrupted by money and dysfunctional to the point IMHO it is at best an oligarchy not a democracy.

But again, your opinion of what those voters will do is all in your head. Bernie talked on and on about this group and they never showed up or if they did they didn't support him.

There are a sizeable group of Americans that disagree with the principles of the left.

My contention is that the Democrats should legislate in the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans. They might lose in the short term but if they kept doing the right things I believe they would win in the long term. Republicans have played a long game to get to where they are and leave America in the sorry state it is. Democrats returning to an FDR style party might have to be a strategy that takes a while to come to full fruition as well. But aside from being the right thing to do it is also a good plan IMHO. Your focus seems to be laser beam on winning elections right now regardless of the consequences. That short term myopia has been what has lead the Democrats to where they are at and while they will and have won elections to an extent they have struggled fundamentally because all they really offer is that they are the lesser evil so any short term wins in the past have not translated long term because all along Republicans have played a long game and further corrupted the system in ways to maintain power as the corporate Democrats myopic thinking seems them unable to beat the Republicans at their own game in any fundamental way.

I'm sorry but you're the one that is being incredibly myopic and borderline childish in your approach.

Firstly, you can't 'legislate' without power. What it sounds like you want is what the left is in Ireland and the UK, shouting from the sidelines. You aren't doing anything to actually improve the lives of people but at least you're 'pure'. It is an incredibly selfish approach.

Secondly, losing elections in the hopes of winning in the future is beyond wishful thinking when the person in power gets to set the rules. Between gerrymandering and the power to decide election rules it becomes harder and harder. Look at how certain states lessening the number of polling locations in minority areas or making it more difficult/complicated to vote by mail.

Thirdly, with packing the courts it makes it harder and harder to enact legislation when you get into power. The new conservative majority in the supreme court can block everything from voters rights to gun control to healthcare reform. The more you lose the harder things get at every level of the court.

Fourthly, for you it might be a case that you have the privilege to play a 'long game' but for many 4 more years of Trump is the difference between life and death

gmisk wrote: »

This is nonsense...
Typical Trumpian tactics throw enough crap at the wall and hope some of it sticks...predictable at this stage

One place it does stick is Facebook

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1311008457894629376?s=20

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

what time does this debate happen ?

might find a link for this

If I recall they tend to be live on youtube, but it's not until 2am so I highly doubt I'll be up for it.

Foxtrol wrote: »

One place it does stick is Facebook

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1311008457894629376?s=20

More confirmation of the poison that is Facebook.

Biden's hypocrisy. Joe and Jill Biden created two corporations so they can pay themselves so they could avoid having to pay payroll taxes collected to fund Social Security and Medicare..The name of the S-Corporations are CelticCapri and Giacoppa.

“According to the Urban Institute, a couple featuring one high earner and one average earner, retiring this year, will have paid a total of $209,000 in Medicare taxes during their working lives,” Jacobs wrote. “The Bidens avoided paying nearly twice that much in Medicare taxes for two years. The maximum payroll tax affected by Mr. Trump’s suspension is $1,984—less than 1/250th of the amount the Bidens avoided in 2017-18. The Bidens didn’t avoid any Social Security tax, which applied only to the first $127,200 of income in 2017 and $128,400 in 2018. But they would under Mr. Biden’s tax plan, which would impose the 12.4% Social Security tax on income over $400,000; the same loophole he used in 2017-18 would shield him from his own tax. And how can Mr. Biden claim to protect Medicare and ObamaCare when he avoided more than $500,000 in taxes that fund the two programs? The media have largely ignored the Bidens’ accounting legerdemain, fixating on Mr. Trump’s tax returns instead. But at least the president isn’t looking to raise taxes on everyone else.”

The Wall Street Journal

The Intercept’s Ryan Grim in 2019;

“The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations,” Grim wrote. “He and his wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp., respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as ‘distributions’ rather than salary. When money is funneled through an S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced. (In addition to the distributions, the Bidens drew relatively small salaries from the S Corporations: under half a million dollars, for which they owed self-employment taxes.)”

Source

Article by Ryan Ellis in The Washington Examiner goes in the great detail but:

To be equally clear, Joe Biden is a hypocrite for using S-corporations in this way for at least four reasons. This is, after all, a man who said that paying more in taxes was a “patriotic act.”

The Washington Examiner


God only knows what else he's been up to in his 36 years in the senate and 8 years as vice president.

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Biden's hypocrisy. Joe and Jill Biden created two corporations so they can pay themselves so they could avoid having to pay payroll taxes collected to fund Social Security and Medicare..The name of the S-Corporations are CelticCapri and Giacoppa.



The Wall Street Journal

The Intercept’s Ryan Grim in 2019;



Source

Article by Ryan Ellis in The Washington Examiner goes in the great detail but:



The Washington Examiner


God only knows what else he's been up to in his 36 years in the senate and 8 years as vice president.

So, are you now saying that reducing one's tax liability legally is wrong? I'm finding it hard to keep up with your positions.

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... check

Biden refusing ear piece examination....check

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....check

Not a good look for old Joe.

All of the above completely made up....check
Your embarrassing yourself

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... check

Biden refusing ear piece examination....check

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....check

Not a good look for old Joe.

Gob****es believing everything they see on Facebook...check

extra gravy wrote: »

Gob****es believing everything they see on Facebook...check

But they don’t believe it they are just making noise

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... check

Biden refusing ear piece examination....check

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....check

Not a good look for old Joe.

Not good look for Trump...

https://twitter.com/Scaramucci/status/1311046253996847104?s=20