2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

eire4

Foxtrol wrote: »

No problem having a difference of opinion, however you claimed there was no evidence and there clearly is.



Or that in most of the US their votes 'don't matter' due to being so red/blue/pure gerrymandering at a state level or that they are actively stopped from voting.



A person ran on your principles, using a lot of your lines, and failed to get enough interest from the party of the left to win their nomination. You can keep blaming others but there is no evidence of your opinion having any basis in the real world.

I think his run in 2020 proved Bernie's appeal in the primaries in 2016 were a mirage. 4 years to build on his efforts and he did drastically worse.



But again, your opinion of what those voters will do is all in your head. Bernie talked on and on about this group and they never showed up or if they did they didn't support him.

There are a sizeable group of Americans that disagree with the principles of the left.



I'm sorry but you're the one that is being incredibly myopic and borderline childish in your approach.

Firstly, you can't 'legislate' without power. What it sounds like you want is what the left is in Ireland and the UK, shouting from the sidelines. You aren't doing anything to actually improve the lives of people but at least you're 'pure'. It is an incredibly selfish approach.

Secondly, losing elections in the hopes of winning in the future is beyond wishful thinking when the person in power gets to set the rules. Between gerrymandering and the power to decide election rules it becomes harder and harder. Look at how certain states lessening the number of polling locations in minority areas or making it more difficult/complicated to vote by mail.

Thirdly, with packing the courts it makes it harder and harder to enact legislation when you get into power. The new conservative majority in the supreme court can block everything from voters rights to gun control to healthcare reform. The more you lose the harder things get at every level of the court.

Fourthly, for you it might be a case that you have the privilege to play a 'long game' but for many 4 more years of Trump is the difference between life and death

You mentioned Sanders and yes he did run in the last 2 Democratic primaries. He is of course an independent not part of the Democratic party. The democratic party has no interest now or in the past 40 odd years of doing what is best for the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans.
Your point showed that an independent cannot come out on top by himself. But I would posit that merely shows how bankrupt the system is as the 2 establishment parties make sure no alternative viable national parties can emerge to challenge their duopoly on power in DC and a person by himself cannot do it either.

Agree with you gerrymandering is part and parcel of the utter corruption that is the US system.

The fact that you describe the Democratic party as the party of the left is utterly risible. Economically they are a centre right party. There is no left wing party in the US currently.
As for blaming that seems to be the usual corporate Democratic response when they lose or don't get what they arrogantly believe they should. I mean how dare people not vote for a party that has no interest in their best economic interests beyond some crumbs. I am not blaming anybody or thing other then pointing out the utter corruption of the system and how the corporate Democrats while the lesser of 2 evils are very much part of that corruption and maintaining that corruption.

And then come the insults as expected the usual arrogance from corporate Democrats who cannot fathom the idea that many people will not vote for a party that does not care for them economically.

Your being either disingenuous or wilfully ignorant claiming that suddenly Democrats would be completely out of power and have no future if they returned to being a more FDR like party. But certainty the sorry state the country is in is due to the short sightedness and myopia of Democrats trying to beat Republicans at their own game and not focusing long term as Republicans did and thus the US is in the sorry state it is.

DraftDodger

Biden and Trump in bust up before debate


https://twitter.com/RedTailspin/status/1311049411812716545

The_Brood

Perhaps one of the greatest shams in western democracy is these 2-minute round soundbites between the presidents that people dare to call "debates." Prepared party line talking points. Give me a break. Sit down with Joe Rogan for a good 4-5 hours and actually discuss matters? No thats too radical. Plus Trump has already lost, everyone with a brain knows that. This is just his platform to plug his news network when he's gone. A sham that only fools will watch.

ohnonotgmail

DraftDodger wrote: »

The fact that Biden has requested a break every 30 min during the debate tonight is all you need to know. Throw out policies and parties..... unfit is unfit!

you have a lie per word percentage that would make trump blush.

Foxtrol

The_Brood wrote: »

Perhaps one of the greatest shams in western democracy is these 2-minute round soundbites between the presidents that people dare to call "debates." Prepared party line talking points. Give me a break. Sit down with Joe Rogan for a good 4-5 hours and actually discuss matters? No thats too radical. Plus Trump has already lost, everyone with a brain knows that. This is just his platform to plug his news network when he's gone. A sham that only fools will watch.

Joe Rogan, the well known conspiracy theorist and far right booster?

I'm fine listening to him talk to fighters but he has no place anywhere near an election.

relax carry on

mcmoustache wrote: »

For the same reason he brought in the Project Veritas thing while putting on the "Not sure if this is true but if it is... wow" act. It's obvious what he's at.

He's just copying his tangerine hero. "A lot of people are saying". Throw random gibberish out and hope you confuse everyone enough to paper over the countless cracks in whatever this hours self inflicted crisis is for team Donnie.

Timberrrrrrrr

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If I recall they tend to be live on youtube, but it's not until 2am so I highly doubt I'll be up for it.

Its live on sky and BBC news channels

The_Brood

Foxtrol wrote: »

Joe Rogan, the well known conspiracy theorist and far right booster?

I'm fine listening to him talk to fighters but he has no place anywhere near an election.

Yeah nothing but crazy right wingers like Bernie Sanders on his show calling for long form debates, good job Biden and the Democratic establishment saved us from that crazy old goon!

/s

Timberrrrrrrr

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... LIE

Biden refusing ear piece examination....LIE

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....LIE

Not a good look for old Joe.

Fixed that for you kiddo

Foxtrol

eire4 wrote: »

You mentioned Sanders and yes he did run in the last 2 Democratic primaries. He is of course an independent not part of the Democratic party. The democratic party has no interest now or in the past 40 odd years of doing what is best for the best economic interests of the vast majority of Americans.
Your point showed that an independent cannot come out on top by himself. But I would posit that merely shows how bankrupt the system is as the 2 establishment parties make sure no alternative viable national parties can emerge to challenge their duopoly on power in DC and a person by himself cannot do it either.

So he couldn't get the party of the 'left' in the US to support his policies but you believe there is widespread support for them?

Agree with you gerrymandering is part and parcel of the utter corruption that is the US system.

The fact that you describe the Democratic party as the party of the left is utterly risible. Economically they are a centre right party. There is no left wing party in the US currently.

There is no significant right wing party in Ireland but it doesn't stop the left calling FG it.

If you're calling the democrat supporters too far right then you're narrowing yourself to a tiny proportion of the population.

As for blaming that seems to be the usual corporate Democratic response when they lose or don't get what they arrogantly believe they should. I mean how dare people not vote for a party that has no interest in their best economic interests beyond some crumbs. I am not blaming anybody or thing other then pointing out the utter corruption of the system and how the corporate Democrats while the lesser of 2 evils are very much part of that corruption and maintaining that corruption.

You're just on your high horse calling things that are life and death for people 'crumbs'.

And then come the insults as expected the usual arrogance from corporate Democrats who cannot fathom the idea that many people will not vote for a party that does not care for them economically.

I'm sorry if you're offended but the 'either get everything I want or I throw a tantrum' mindset is the definition of childishness.

Your being either disingenuous or wilfully ignorant claiming that suddenly Democrats would be completely out of power and have no future if they returned to being a more FDR like party. But certainty the sorry state the country is in is due to the short sightedness and myopia of Democrats trying to beat Republicans at their own game and not focusing long term as Republicans did and thus the US is in the sorry state it is.

The GOP's long game was to rig the system so they can win with less voters. Your long game is to allow the GOP more and more power to rig the system in a gamble that this group of voters want your model, despite there being no evidence of them on a national level electorally or in polling. It is pure fantasy that you're willing for others to hurt or die to test out.

Overheal

DraftDodger wrote: »

They have refused Biden toilet breaks which might be interesting.

DraftDodger wrote: »

Wow. Joe refusing to submit to the very fair earpiece check. Not a good look and suspicions have to be raised :eek:

https://www.westernjournal.com/report-biden-reneges-now-wont-submit-search-earpiece-debate/

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... check

Biden refusing ear piece examination....check

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....check

Not a good look for old Joe.

DraftDodger wrote: »

The fact that Biden has requested a break every 30 min during the debate tonight is all you need to know. Throw out policies and parties..... unfit is unfit!

I see what we have going on here.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1311030071231213574?s=20

Foxtrol

The_Brood wrote: »

Yeah nothing but crazy right wingers like Bernie Sanders on his show calling for long form debates, good job Biden and the Democratic establishment saved us from that crazy old goon!

/s

Good, you don't disagree that Rogan provides a platform for the far right and numerous conspiracy theorists.

I'm all for long form debates just not with characters with Rogan's background. Biden has massively outperformed Trump in recent town hall format and I'd expect similar in long form

Overheal

Foxtrol wrote: »

Good, you don't disagree that Rogan provides a platform for the far right and numerous conspiracy theorists.

I'm all for long form debates just not with characters with Rogan's background. Biden has massively outperformed Trump in recent town hall format and I'd expect similar in long form

Even Spotify wants to re-evaluate their relationship with Rogan, the platform that was going to be touted as a 'safe haven' for his viewpoint, eh, they had a change of heart the moment he started pushing meritless conspiracy theories.

Foxtrol

Overheal wrote: »

Even Spotify wants to re-evaluate their relationship with Rogan, the platform that was going to be touted as a 'safe haven' for his viewpoint, eh, they had a change of heart the moment he started pushing meritless conspiracy theories.

It is all fun and games hosting him on the platform until now every word he says is tied to your brand, where he is only a tiny part of your business.

They'd be extremely foolish to not have a lot of get out clauses in that contract, though I think they were pretty foolish getting in bed with him in the first place. I don't see where the upside for them was, especially at that cost

Harry Palmr

DraftDodger wrote: »

The fact that Biden has requested a break every 30 min during the debate tonight is all you need to know. Throw out policies and parties..... unfit is unfit!

Have you considered how stupid you are going to look in 4 hours?

Timberrrrrrrr

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Trump should ask Joe to draw a clock and put the hands-on 9 O’Clock. .....

Is trump bringing the hamburders and coveffe? :rolleyes:

1800_Ladladlad

Faugheen wrote: »

This cognitive decline bollocks again.

Trump
Mispronounced
His
Own
Name

F*cking trolls. I’ll happily take a card for that one, because lord knows I’d be banned very quickly if I behaved like some of the dicks in this thread.

You really took one for the team there comrade didn't you. Those who throw tantrums are covered.

1800_Ladladlad

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Is trump bringing the hamburders and coveffe? :rolleyes:

I wonder does he take the gherkins off.

stockshares

Sarah Cooper sketch.

How to drugs
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1311055816166907907?s=19

Timberrrrrrrr

stockshares wrote: »

Sarah Cooper sketch.

How to drugs
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1311055816166907907?s=19

Sounds familiar alright

https://twitter.com/Msdesignerlady/status/1311013918672904193?s=09

Faugheen

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

You really took one for the team there comrade didn't you. Those who throw tantrums are covered.

Meh. If you and your pals aren’t going to post in good faith I’ll treat you as such.

Quantum Erasure

What station will ye be watching on? I think I'll avoid the Irish coverage anyway...

Quin_Dub

DraftDodger wrote: »

Wow. Joe refusing to submit to the very fair earpiece check. Not a good look and suspicions have to be raised :eek:

https://www.westernjournal.com/report-biden-reneges-now-wont-submit-search-earpiece-debate/

DraftDodger wrote: »

They have refused Biden toilet breaks which might be interesting.

DraftDodger wrote: »

https://thejeffreylord.com/biden-asks-for-two-bathroom-breaks-during-90-minute-debate/?utm_source=socialflow

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/breaking-joe-bidens-campaign-requests-breaks-every-30-minutes-tonights-first-debate/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

DraftDodger wrote: »

Biden refusing drug test.... check

Biden refusing ear piece examination....check

Biden wanting toilet break every 30 minutes....check

Not a good look for old Joe.

DraftDodger wrote: »

The fact that Biden has requested a break every 30 min during the debate tonight is all you need to know. Throw out policies and parties..... unfit is unfit!

In an update that will surprise absolutely NO ONE with a Brain - All of the above is gold plated Bollocks.

The Source of all of this completely and utterly fabricated horsesh!t?

A Facebook post from Breitbart and the Daily Caller who were reporting a quote from an Ex-Fox News Pundit who heard it on the radio who in turn got it from InfoWars who were given it by... The one and only Jerome Corsi!!!!!!

Yes - THAT Jerome Corsi.

Facebook needs to be burned to the ground - Not a single person on earth would mourn it's loss.

Jesus!!

Faugheen

https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1311084592338735104?s=21

Trolololol

Overheal

Scandal confirmed

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1311084592338735104?s=20

I give it a few mins before the farm trolls are everywhere talking about his elitist choice of ice cream flavors during a pandemic or whatever.

dark crystal

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What station will ye be watching on? I think I'll avoid the Irish coverage anyway...

I'm watching CNN live.

Faugheen

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/256466457968381955?s=21

Wonder will the liberal haters (I won’t even call them Trump supporters, they’re not, they only care about sticking it to the lefties) think of their leader’s thoughts on Biden since they’ve been trying to make out he’s useless this whole time.

Imagine Trump saying something I agree with.

dark crystal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In an update that will surprise absolutely NO ONE with a Brain - All of the above is gold plated Bollocks.

The Source of all of this completely and utterly fabricated horsesh!t?

A Facebook post from Breitbart and the Daily Caller who were reporting a quote from an Ex-Fox News Pundit who heard it on the radio who in turn got it from InfoWars who were given it by... The one and only Jerome Corsi!!!!!!

Yes - THAT Jerome Corsi.

Facebook needs to be burned to the ground - Not a single person on earth would mourn it's loss.

Jesus!!

Bless 'em, the Trumpets are a gullible lot.

I look forward to the debate - let's see how Biden actually does after such low expectations have been set for him

rosser44

Faugheen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/256466457968381955?s=21

Wonder will the liberal haters (I won’t even call them Trump supporters, they’re not, they only care about sticking it to the lefties) think of their leader’s thoughts on Biden since they’ve been trying to make out he’s useless this whole time.

Imagine Trump saying something I agree with.

Trump is sh1tting his pants about tonight

Overheal

Faugheen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/256466457968381955?s=21

Wonder will the liberal haters (I won’t even call them Trump supporters, they’re not, they only care about sticking it to the lefties) think of their leader’s thoughts on Biden since they’ve been trying to make out he’s useless this whole time.

Imagine Trump saying something I agree with.

antiliberals.