George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Madeleine Birchfield · 02-06-2020 9:33pm

Australian reporters tear gassed and shot at by American forces.

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1267662905383596032

~Rebel~ · 02-06-2020 9:34pm

cdeb wrote: »

No - that's not what the problem is.

You're again looking to frame this as a race issue, and I don't think you can here.

This seems to be a poverty issue, not a race issue. There are fewer poor white people than poor black people - which isn't racism, though it is a societal issue - but they commit crimes too.

How can you conclusively argue that that isn't a racial issue? Do you think a young poor white guy faces exactly the experience of life as a young poor black guy?

When both go for a job to try to pull themselves out of poverty, do you think one has a better chance than the other of getting it?

And I would ask you the same question about Ireland - with a white kid here and a traveller kid?

So are all of those situations equal, or does society consciously or unconsciously inherently favour one over the other?

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 9:34pm

Overheal wrote: »

I feel terrible for her. I hope they find and prosecute the white opportunists and other thugs who did that.

Why do you mention white people?

cdeb · 02-06-2020 9:36pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

How can you conclusively argue that that isn't a racial issue? Do you think a young poor white guy faces exactly the experience of life as a young poor black guy?

When both go for a job to try to pull themselves out of poverty, do you think one has a better chance than the other of getting it?

OK, that's a book in itself - so no, I can't conclusively argue it.

But you're trying to argue the converse, so that argument has to cut both ways.

I think you're very keen to paint this as a race issue, and I don't think you've shown anything substantial to really back that up.

I want to view it in the larger societal issues which I think we both agree (a) exist and (b) are being overlooked because people are too busy shouting "racist" at each other

nj27 · 02-06-2020 9:36pm

Maybe I'm some kind of racist, but I'm used to a discussion regarding the basis of most major social issues. I'm used to a bit of a back and forth about the statistics behind the issues which people riot over. This entire step, the step which defines a decent society, seems to have been forgotten. It's legitimately weird for somebody who does come down on either side of a lot of the issues which seem to be at play here. The debate doesn't seem to have taken place. I read statistics which undermine every aspect of the issue at hand, but they don't appear to ever be addressed. I feel like I am entering a debate about crop circles, but people's livelihoods are being destroyed instead of vague interest in a matter of questionable veracity. For the first time ever in political matters, I'm leaving. I'm shutting it out. This is the maddest thing I have ever seen, and it doesn't even appear to have a logical element. I genuinely fear for the future of western society, and I'd really love to know where I could **** off to in order to get away from this ****.

Overheal · 02-06-2020 9:37pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Why do you mention white people?

Problem?

Madeleine Birchfield · 02-06-2020 9:37pm

Australia to lodge diplomatic complaint against the US

https://theweek.com/speedreads/917675/teargassing-lafayette-square-now-caused-diplomatic-rift-australia

Danzy · 02-06-2020 9:37pm

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A woman who is part owner of this store, who works part time in said store is rightfully angery

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1267903014221656064

One of the priests here suggested black people like her should claim insurance.

Cold people.

~Rebel~ · 02-06-2020 9:38pm

cdeb wrote: »

OK, that's a book in itself - so no, I can't conclusively argue it.

But you're trying to argue the converse, so that argument has to cut both ways.

I think you're very keen to paint this as a race issue, and I don't think you've shown anything substantial to really back that up.

I want to view it in the larger societal issues which I think we both agree (a) exist and (b) are being overlooked because people are too busy shouting "racist" at each other

Imo everything going on right now is grounded in those larger societal issues.
They are the foundations and bedrock for all the anger and frustration being felt and expressed right now.

Fundamentally, what it all comes own to is "we are not all treated equally".

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 9:39pm

Overheal wrote: »

Problem?

A question have you any PROOF that white people had any involvement in this?

And why single out WHITE people?

Danzy · 02-06-2020 9:40pm

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A woman who is part owner of this store, who works part time in said store is rightfully angery

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1267903014221656064

nj27 wrote: »

Maybe I'm some kind of racist, but I'm used to a discussion regarding the basis of most major social issues. I'm used to a bit of a back and forth about the statistics behind the issues which people riot over. This entire step, the step which defines a decent society, seems to have been forgotten. It's legitimately weird for somebody who does come down on either side of a lot of the issues which seem to be at play here. The debate doesn't seem to have taken place. I read statistics which undermine every aspect of the issue at hand, but they don't appear to ever be addressed. I feel like I am entering a debate about crop circles, but people's livelihoods are being destroyed instead of vague interest in a matter of questionable veracity. For the first time ever in political matters, I'm leaving. I'm shutting it out. This is the maddest thing I have ever seen, and it doesn't even appear to have a logical element. I genuinely fear for the future of western society, and I'd really love to know where I could **** off to in order to get away from this ****.

Truly bizarre thread at times.

The fanaticism of the reformation and probably the same destruction.

Clarence Boddiker · 02-06-2020 9:41pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Here is a FACT that can be checked but no doubt I will be skating on thin ice posting it.

The slave trade was largely Jewish run and Jewish families were the highest per capita slave owners followed second by free black men who also held slaves white people did also have slaves but at a much lower percentage.

I have no doubt the above paragraph will cause outrage but it is factually true.

However non of that matters we are living in 2020 slavery ended in 1865 and I would not hold anybody to account for it now as they are all long dead.

Cops in this case was pure cold blooded murder and all four of them need to be locked away.
That is not an excuse for violence looting and rioting.

It matters when white people are blamed exclusively for slavery.

Edgware · 02-06-2020 9:41pm

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Australia to lodge diplomatic complaint against the US

https://theweek.com/speedreads/917675/teargassing-lafayette-square-now-caused-diplomatic-rift-australia

Maybe the Ambassador will mention the Australian refugee island camps while there

Nozebleed · 02-06-2020 9:41pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BqN423qeu4

mr_fegelien · 02-06-2020 9:42pm

This isn't a troll opinion but does anyone think that "marrying white" is the way to decrease poverty for blacks?

It seems a fair amount of 'black' people in the US that are better off/face less racism are not really black at all but less than 1/2 black. I think of people like Beyonce, Pharelll Williams, Neil DeGrase Tyson, Lionel Richie. Hell, even Barack Obama wouldn't technically be considered black as he's biracial but grew up in a white family.

If black people ensured they had kids with whites, wouldn't that reduce their chances of discrimination? Colorism is a thing perpetrated not just by white Americans but by black Americans as well where lighter skinned blacks are favored over darker skinned ones.

Thinking about it, most of the blacks killed by police are very dark skinned. Anyone forget Travyon Martin back in 2012/13.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 9:42pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

It matters when white people are blamed exclusively for slavery.

Sorry you are right.:)

Clarence Boddiker · 02-06-2020 9:42pm

There's a very strong whiff of Arab Spring off this situation.

Overheal · 02-06-2020 9:43pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A question have you any PROOF that white people had any involvement in this?

And why single out WHITE people?

Why single out black people? Or Antifa?

Is this not par for this course?

Do you know white opportunists were not involved in looting her store? I’ve seen lots of evidence of white opportunists

GazzaL · 02-06-2020 9:45pm

batman75 wrote: »

I honestly thought the election of Barack Obama as President back in 2009 mean that black people were finally the equal of their fellow Americans. This horrible case proves otherwise. Trump's response is to crack down on the protestors. Oh Donald how low the office of Presidency has sunk with you in the seat.

Innocent people are being robbed and shot in the streets, innocent people's businesses are being looted and burned out. These innocent people are black, white, and everything else. Do the authorities not have a duty to protect these people?

Overheal · 02-06-2020 9:45pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

This isn't a troll opinion but does anyone think that "marrying white" is the way to decrease poverty for blacks?

It seems a fair amount of 'black' people in the US that are better off/face less racism are not really black at all but less than 1/2 black. I think of people like Beyonce, Pharelll Williams, Neil DeGrase Tyson, Lionel Richie. Hell, even Barack Obama wouldn't technically be considered black as he's biracial but grew up in a white family.

If black people ensured they had kids with whites, wouldn't that reduce their chances of discrimination? Colorism is a thing perpetrated not just by white Americans but by black Americans as well where lighter skinned blacks are favored over darker skinned ones.

Thinking about it, most of the blacks killed by police are very dark skinned. Anyone forget Travyon Martin back in 2012/13.

Really highlights the problem to make this point tbph.

DelaneyIn · 02-06-2020 9:45pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Indeed - so perhaps there is something more? Some extra systemic oppression that occurs perhaps to poor black people as opposed to poor white people?

This is exactly what the problem is.

When numbers are that skewed, there has to be an underlying cause. Unless you are trying to argue that black people are inherently born evil? Because unless that's what you're saying, then there has to be something bigger going on within the country to young black men. And that is why there are mass protests across the country.

Yes, yes. Racist whitey is making the poor blacks commit so much murder, rape and violent assault.

It definitely couldn’t be the horrible street culture glorifying these ****ty things contributing to the stats.

Similar crime stats are repeated in London and elsewhere in the West.

It’s a cultural problem. But much easier to blame it all on racist whitey.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 9:45pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

its like the way settled people are responsible for the chronic littering around halting sites.

Now come on you can not disprove this might happen.:D

cdeb · 02-06-2020 9:46pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Imo everything going on right now is grounded in those larger societal issues.
They are the foundations and bedrock for all the anger and frustration being felt and expressed right now.

Fundamentally, what it all comes own to is "we are not all treated equally".

Well without saying which societal issues, your post is a bit ambiguous.

I mean, I agree that the larger societal issues are to blame - but then I'm saying it's not racist and you're saying it is, which I don't agree with.

So I guess we're back to square one after all that.

Seems a good time to log off.

02-06-2020 9:47pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

This isn't a troll opinion but does anyone think that "marrying white" is the way to decrease poverty for blacks?

It seems a fair amount of 'black' people in the US that are better off/face less racism are not really black at all but less than 1/2 black. I think of people like Beyonce, Pharelll Williams, Neil DeGrase Tyson, Lionel Richie. Hell, even Barack Obama wouldn't technically be considered black as he's biracial but grew up in a white family.

If black people ensured they had kids with whites, wouldn't that reduce their chances of discrimination? Colorism is a thing perpetrated not just by white Americans but by black Americans as well where lighter skinned blacks are favored over darker skinned ones.

Thinking about it, most of the blacks killed by police are very dark skinned. Anyone forget Travyon Martin back in 2012/13.

Sometimes you out do yourself Mr Fegelian..

Overheal · 02-06-2020 9:47pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

There's a very strong whiff of Arab Spring off this situation.

This isn’t insurrection and the crackdown while not very democratic or justly applied doesn’t strike me the same as Arab Spring governments using live fire on protesters who called for government overthrow.

CinemaGuy45 · 02-06-2020 9:48pm

Overheal wrote: »

Why single out black people? Or Antifa?

Is this not par for this course?

Do you know white opportunists were not involved in looting her store? I’ve seen lots of evidence of white opportunists

People looted her store and you said you hope the white people are caught?

We do not know who looted the store why the racism?

Overheal · 02-06-2020 9:48pm

GazzaL wrote: »

Innocent people are being robbed and shot in the streets, innocent people's businesses are being looted and burned out. These innocent people are black, white, and everything else. Do the authorities not have a duty to protect these people?

If they do it will there be more violence?

BorneTobyWilde · 02-06-2020 9:48pm

100's of cops have been caught red handed on tape during all these protests, and they'll all be fired. Some of what is caught on tape is worth prison time.

RIGOLO · 02-06-2020 9:49pm

So whats the plan for tonight...

Are the peaceful protestors out in force tonight , with the peacful fires, peaceful looting , peaceful wanton destruction of their communities, with the brutal police out in force to try to stop them from carrying out this peaceful message of nation building?

Snickers Man · 02-06-2020 9:49pm

BluePlanet wrote: »

are you kidding?
There is nothing to compare.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/13/17938170/us-police-shootings-gun-violence-homicides

I think those figures are a huge underestimate. The Washington Post compiles figures that reveal that just short of 1,000 people are shot dead every year by police and law enforcement in the US. Since they started compiling their database of police shootings in January 2015, more than 5000 people have been shot dead by US cops.

Edgware wrote: »

How many of the victims were armed?
How many police were killed?
How many unarmed intruders were killed by householders?
How many school shootings?
The U.S. is a gun crazy country and that wont change. Police wont wait to be shot at. If in doubt take him out.

Are any of these good things or mitigating factors in any way for such a massive body count to be attributed to THE POLICE, FFS??

You're right, of course. America's casual approach to "gun rights" mimicked across the democratic world by, er, hardly anybody is a major contributory factor to this appalling statistic.

What's even more appalling is that people try to justify it.

By way of comparison, if there was a similar rate of police shootings in this country we would have (adjusting for population and allowing a reasonable margin of error) between 10 and 20 people shot dead every year by Gardaí.

In fact, there has been only one fatal shooting of a suspect by police in the past three years, Mark Hennessy, shot dead in Wicklow in 2018, the only suspect in the abduction and murder of a young woman.

George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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