Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Options
1…147148150152153…336

Comments

  • Options
    #4472
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    Overheal wrote: »
    When you consider you know who your ancestors were, and weren’t shipped a world away to be a slave. Yeah. Racism didn’t end with emancipation. It didn’t end with the right to vote either.

    Sorry but there are inescapable realities in play.

    What are you trying to get at with all your post on this thread? What is your proposed solution?


  • Options
    #4473
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I wonder how much Corona was spread yesterday during that protest?

    I don't think that much. They usually only drink those craft beers.


  • Options
    #4474
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So where would it end?

    When blacks are given the same dignity in this country, especially as it pertains to law enforcement, as an Irish or an Italian or a Jew. Just three races of Americans who went through integration much faster than blacks, who didn’t choose to be brought here.


  • Options
    #4475
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Can you post evidence for this claim please?

    I don't think I will, no.

    Earlier you came up with this gem: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113619614

    It has now been totally debunked, the lights were not turned off at the White House, and the Park Police have confirmed that they did not use tear gas.

    Are you going to delete it?

    Maybe then I'll post the evidence.


  • Options
    #4476
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,101 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    2u2me wrote: »
    What is being asked for Overheal? What are they demanding?

    In fact you answered this the other night "Police accountability".

    Do you not see that this goal has no end? It has no way of being achieved. If they asked that police can no longer use such force during arrests I'm sure the whole country would be on board. Laws and rulesbooks would quickly be rewritten. That's not the direction the media are spinning it. This is largely senseless violence and destruction.

    If you ever bothered to look, there are plenty of ways for it to be achieved. I'd expect most you wouldn't like if they were taken away in Ireland but they aren't in place in the US.

    Here are just a few:
    • Implement independent bodies for police oversight (like Ireland does). Only a few cities have these, mostly cops investigate cops.
    • Make complaints against police officers public (definitely successful complaints). Currently a cop can get fired in one town and his file is sealed and he can go to the next town and get a job.
    • Federally define what necessary force means. Currently it is state by state and many times not clearly defined so lawyers find loop holes.
    • Increase training for police officers. Some places you get a badge and a gun after a month training.
    • Bring back Consent Decrees to assess trends in minority targeting.
    • Demand body camera use by all police officers nationwide


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4477
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Its not that simple. Its the legacy of slavery and resulting institutional suppression of blacks in America by the system of society that the Americans have built.

    Here is a FACT that can be checked but no doubt I will be skating on thin ice posting it.

    The slave trade was largely Jewish run and Jewish families were the highest per capita slave owners followed second by free black men who also held slaves white people did also have slaves but at a much lower percentage.


    I have no doubt the above paragraph will cause outrage but it is factually true.

    However non of that matters we are living in 2020 slavery ended in 1865 and I would not hold anybody to account for it now as they are all long dead.

    Cops in this case was pure cold blooded murder and all four of them need to be locked away.
    That is not an excuse for violence looting and rioting.


  • Options
    #4478
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Your constant ranting about the media is bizarre, this problem goes back a lot lot further than the modern news media.

    My 'rantings' were associated with evidence being provided each time. Just about any of the t.v. reports from CNN, an article from the guardian comes to mind, and now one from yesterday fresh off the presses from the atlantic have a gander let me know what you think.

    I believe it is stoking a narrative that violence is the only way left, without even offering up a goal. Don't you see how dangerous this is?
    Since the beginning of this country, riots and violent rhetoric have been markers of patriotism
    “Give me liberty or give me death,”
    “We won’t be their Negroes.”
    It is easy to dismiss the rock thrower; Attucks himself was accused of throwing sticks. But those who rebuke violent responses to injustice should ask themselves: How should the oppressed respond to their oppressors?


  • Options
    #4479
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I wonder how much Corona was spread yesterday during that protest?

    You weren't listening to our leader today then...Racism is the real virus...according to Leo...not the one that infected 25,000 killing 1,600 of us and ground our economy to a halt costing us billions and destroying our economy, not to mention the huge cost to our collective mental well being or to those who haven't been able to access health services....no...racism....in America is the real virus!!!!


  • Options
    #4480
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    When blacks are given the same dignity in this country, especially as it pertains to law enforcement, as an Irish or an Italian or a Jew. Just three races of Americans who went through integration much faster than blacks, who didn’t choose to be brought here.

    That sounds fair enough..
    Do you think the black community have a responsibility to address issues related to crime in their communities?


  • Options
    #4481
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    If you ever bothered to look, there are plenty of ways for it to be achieved. I'd expect most you wouldn't like if they were taken away in Ireland but they aren't in place in the US.

    Here are just a few:
    • Implement independent bodies for police oversight (like Ireland does). Only a few cities have these, mostly cops investigate cops.
    • Make complaints against police officers public (definitely successful complaints). Currently a cop can get fired in one town and his file is sealed and he can go to the next town and get a job.
    • Federally define what necessary force means. Currently it is state by state and many times not clearly defined so lawyers find loop holes.
    • Increase training for police officers. Some places you get a badge and a gun after a month training.
    • Bring back Consent Decrees to assess trends in minority targeting.
    • Demand body camera use by all police officers nationwide

    To be fair...that all makes sense...that would take a huge sign to convey though..best go with "Abolish The Police"


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4482
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gary550 wrote: »
    What are you trying to get at with all your post on this thread? What is your proposed solution?

    I’m here balancing discussion with people who can’t see the wood from the trees.

    The solution is for law enforcement to treat everyone justly and for there to be safeguards in place to enforce that. It doesn’t happen. I have given numerous examples, white and black.

    Blacks continuing to be treated like 2nd class citizens will have limited opportunity to not act like it.


  • Options
    #4483
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    If you ever bothered to look, there are plenty of ways for it to be achieved. I'd expect most you wouldn't like if they were taken away in Ireland but they aren't in place in the US.

    [/LIST]

    I'm not disputing the ways it can be achieved. I'm highlighting the fact that the media are completely ignoring this as well as the leadership in all areas while quickly jumping on the narrative that violence is the only way left, without having explored their demands.


  • Options
    #4484
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,172 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    Here is a FACT that can be checked but no doubt I will be skating on thin ice posting it.

    The slave trade was largely Jewish run and Jewish families were the highest per capita slave owners followed second by free black men who also held slaves white people did also have slaves but at a much lower percentage.


    I have no doubt the above paragraph will cause outrage but it is factually true.

    However non of that matters we are living in 2020 slavery ended in 1865 and I would not hold anybody to account for it now as they are all long dead.

    Cops in this case was pure cold blooded murder and all four of them need to be locked away.
    That is not an excuse for violence looting and rioting.

    What does it matter if they were Jewish?

    You could say the Troubles "ended" with the belfast agreement but the legacy of that time remains and still flares up from time to time. You may remember the journalist that was murdered a few years ago?

    Just because slavery ended in 1865 doesn't mean that the next day black people in America were suddenly free and equal. Not a whole lot has changed since the civil rights movement in the 60s, and with growing inequality in America since then the situation is getting worse not better.

    Why do you think this keeps happening again and again every few years?


  • Options
    #4485
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,312 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Nermal wrote: »
    I don't think I will, no.

    Earlier you came up with this gem: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113619614

    It has now been totally debunked, the lights were not turned off at the White House, and the Park Police have confirmed that they did not use tear gas.

    Are you going to delete it?

    Maybe then I'll post the evidence.

    debunked by who exactly? This priest who was there is lying then?

    https://religionnews.com/2020/06/02/ahead-of-trump-bible-photo-op-police-forcibly-expel-priest-from-st-johns-church-near-white-house/


  • Options
    #4486
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,156 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Overheal wrote: »
    I’m here balancing discussion with people who can’t see the wood from the trees.

    The solution is for law enforcement to treat everyone justly and for there to be safeguards in place to enforce that. It doesn’t happen. I have given numerous examples, white and black.

    Blacks continuing to be treated like 2nd class citizens will have limited opportunity to not act like it.

    People here just want to talk about Trump. They are almost incapable of thinking about anything else.


  • Options
    #4487
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,500 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What does it matter if they were Jewish?

    You could say the Troubles "ended" with the belfast agreement but the legacy of that time remains and still flares up from time to time. You may remember the journalist that was murdered a few years ago?

    Just because slavery ended in 1865 doesn't mean that the next day black people in America were suddenly free and equal. Not a whole lot has changed since the civil rights movement in the 60s, and with growing inequality in America since then the situation is getting worse not better.

    That the plight of African Americans is now worse than the 60s.

    Wow.


  • Options
    #4488
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That sounds fair enough..
    Do you think the black community have a responsibility to address issues related to crime in their communities?

    I think this train of thought is toxic.

    It’s asking blacks, already lynched for 200 years, pushed into ghettos, etc. to be responsible for policing themselves, and lifting themselves up by their own shoelaces.

    A quick pass filter against correlation and causation is in order.


  • Options
    #4489
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What does it matter if they were Jewish?

    You could say the Troubles "ended" with the belfast agreement but the legacy of that time remains and still flares up from time to time. You may remember the journalist that was murdered a few years ago?

    Just because slavery ended in 1865 doesn't mean that the next day black people in America were suddenly free and equal. Not a whole lot has changed since the civil rights movement in the 60s, and with growing inequality in America since then the situation is getting worse not better.

    Why do you think this keeps happening again and again every few years?

    Exactly. Thank you.


  • Options
    #4490
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What does it matter if they were Jewish?

    You could say the Troubles "ended" with the belfast agreement but the legacy of that time remains and still flares up from time to time. You may remember the journalist that was murdered a few years ago?

    Just because slavery ended in 1865 doesn't mean that the next day black people in America were suddenly free and equal. Not a whole lot has changed since the civil rights movement in the 60s, and with growing inequality in America since then the situation is getting worse not better.

    Why do you think this keeps happening again and again every few years?

    There reason that bit in bold matters is it seems to be white people who get the blame for slavery white privilege and so on.

    Anyway 1865 and even the 60s most of us were not even born for goodness sake.
    Many cops in the United States are trigger happy morons and the amount of gang related crimes is the reason for a large police presence in black areas.

    Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?


  • Options
    #4491
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,172 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Danzy wrote: »
    That the plight of African Americans is now worse than the 60s.

    Wow.

    That is not what my post said. Do you have trouble reading? It would explain a lot. I said not a whole lot has changed it didnt say it was worse.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4492
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    2u2me wrote: »
    I'm not disputing the ways it can be achieved. I'm highlighting the fact that the media are completely ignoring this as well as the leadership in all areas while quickly jumping on the narrative that violence is the only way left, without having explored their demands.

    The problem is that the government is also ignoring it. Crushing riots is the only response of the president so far. He hasn't even mentioned that there's a reason for what's happened beyond George Floyd's death.


  • Options
    #4493
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    There reason that bit in bold matters is it seems to be white people who get the blame for slavery white privilege and so on.

    Anyway 1865 and even the 60s most of us were not even born for goodness sake.
    Many cops in the United States are trigger happy morons and the amount of gang related crimes is the reason for a large police presence in black areas.

    Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?


    Would you apply the same logic as regards residents of Finglas or the north/south inner city and crime?


  • Options
    #4494
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    I think this train of thought is toxic.

    It’s asking blacks, already lynched for 200 years, pushed into ghettos, etc. to be responsible for policing themselves, and lifting themselves up by their own shoelaces.

    A quick pass filter against correlation and causation is in order.

    But like, jesus..it's a complicated situation..Of course ghettoisation is a major contributing factor, but so is the glorification of criminality in like urban black culture..Should not the pillars of the black community be doing what they can to address these?..Is that, and education not a way forward?

    Like, are you suggesting defunding police forces (this is the one concrete thing I've heard people demand the last few days..) while this glamourisation of criminality is still in place?


  • Options
    #4495
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,273 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    MadYaker wrote: »
    And when they've tried peaceful protest again and again and again over the last 70 years and yet the same killings keep happening again and again and again, what then?

    Before going there, an observation. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of Police are appointed by elected representatives like mayors. If we were to go the the campaign page of one of those persons, do they have as much as a policy statement on the police use of force? If not, why is this not brought directly up to their campaigns? Why are people continuing to vote for them? The most powerful tool in the US is still the vote.

    But let's go a step further. Let's work on the basis that peaceful has been tried and failed. After all, every good revolution has been illegal and often violent. (Romania strikes me as an interesting counterpoint). But is there a middle ground? In these past revolutions, who has been targeted? The American Revolution, they generally burned barracks, not merchants. Irish War of Independence, I believe the targets were the government bodies like the RIC, the Army, and the like. Even the GPO is, at least, a public asset. Even Jesus, when he flipped over the tables, left third parties alone.

    What we are seeing now is a jump from "peace" to turning the dial straight to at least 9. Alienating the populace is never a good way of achieving the desired result, be the method peaceful or violent. Even those who would advocate violence should have no grounds to support what is currently happening in the US.


  • Options
    #4496
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?

    Ironically it is a type of soft bigotry of low expectations as coined by famous speech writer, Michael Gerson which can be reworded as

    *the subtle discrimination that takes the form of setting low expectations"


  • Options
    #4497
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    There reason that bit in bold matters is it seems to be white people who get the blame for slavery white privilege and so on.

    Anyway 1865 and even the 60s most of us were not even born for goodness sake.
    Many cops in the United States are trigger happy morons and the amount of gang related crimes is the reason for a large police presence in black areas.

    Why is the idea of black people tacking and taking some responsibility for gang crime seen as so radical?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us70DN2XSfM


  • Options
    #4498
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,172 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Before going there, an observation. Sheriffs are elected. Chiefs of Police are appointed by elected representatives like mayors. If we were to go the the campaign page of one of those persons, do they have as much as a policy statement on the police use of force? If not, why is this not brought directly up to their campaigns? Why are people continuing to vote for them? The most powerful tool in the US is still the vote.

    But let's go a step further. Let's work on the basis that peaceful has been tried and failed. After all, every good revolution has been illegal and often violent. (Romania strikes me as an interesting counterpoint). But is there a middle ground? In these past revolutions, who has been targeted? The American Revolution, they generally burned barracks, not merchants. Irish War of Independence, I believe the targets were the government bodies like the RIC, the Army, and the like. Even the GPO is, at least, a public asset. Even Jesus, when he flipped over the tables, left third parties alone.

    What we are seeing now is a jump from "peace" to turning the dial straight to at least 9. Alienating the populace is never a good way of achieving the desired result, be the method peaceful or violent. Even those who would advocate violence should have no grounds to support what is currently happening in the US.

    No, what we are seeing now is the same situation that has played out several times over the last 70 years or so and nothing has changed.


  • Options
    #4499
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,106 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But like, jesus..it's a complicated situation..Of course ghettoisation is a major contributing factor, but so is the glorification of criminality in like urban black culture..Should not the pillars of the black community be doing what they can to address these?..Is that, and education not a way forward?

    Like, are you suggesting defunding police forces (this is the one concrete thing I've heard people demand the last few days..) while this glamourisation of criminality is still in place?

    I’m genuinely not sure what you’re talking about, but now I’m worried you will tie it back to rap music.


  • Options
    #4500
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Would you apply the same logic as regards residents of Finglas or the north/south inner city and crime?

    I grew up in not a great place and many young people got into street gangs stealing cars and joyriding.
    In middle class areas this does not really happen as there are more opportunities and less temptation.
    Having said that many people including myself and my family did not get involved in any of this and put our minds to working.

    So yes while I admit growing up in a bad area makes things much harder people who choose to commit crime and get involved with gangs need to shoulder most of the blame.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4501
    moonlighting_1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭moonlighting_1


    Businesses across America are boarding up their shops. Crazy to see.




This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement