George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Aidric

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To turn this around, why do you think that is? I mean, assuming you agree that black people are not fundamentally different from anyone else from birth, why is it that they're entirely disproportionately represented like this? If you put on your empathy hat for a moment, what is it that would drive you to be similar? What sort of systemic injustice and oppression would it take to have created a version of CinemaGuy45 who felt like he had such limited options that criminality became something he would go for?

Exactly right. I don't think any right minded individual would condone looting and violence but it doesn't take a great leap to understand why it happens. If you are a black person who has been continually crushed, continually made to feel worthless and continually let down by the system of justice that is supposed to protect its citizens, what reaction would you expect? Certainly not a rational one.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

didnt you hear? he aint even black.

Well he has a great tan then..

CinemaGuy45

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, gotta up the standard here. Can't be defeated by the wind.

https://twitter.com/CharlieGileNBC/status/1267251347163877376

See my comment above about low IQ morons in the police.

Danzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Well he has a great tan then..

Mighty summer.

Overheal

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Those four cops are the dumbest fcuks going everybody should take responsibility for their own words and actions but these four triggered the whole crisis.:mad:

Because they never thought they were in danger of being in trouble for anything. Even as bystanders pleaded for his mercy.

That’s what’s important about these protests.

Police departments know who their bad cops are. They know it. They think “yeah that Jimmy, he’s a hot head, but what can you do, he’s not all bad.” Now, they should really begin thinking “we needed to get Jimmy out of here before we have a riot on our hands.” Ultimately they needed to be thinking “we can’t do this because our oversight is going to crucify us”

Overheal

suicide_circus wrote: »

didnt you hear? he aint even black.

And white allies are just pussies with white guilt.

I hope people see how this works.

Overheal

Watching Biden’s speech. Big difference from Trump. Longer remarks. Actually proposes solutions, on people introducing legislation to impose a federal ban on chokeholds for example. For setting up federal standards on use of force.

Tell me how

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Those four cops are the dumbest fcuks going everybody should take responsibility for their own words and actions but these four triggered the whole crisis.:mad:

Will Smith 2016: 'Racism hasn't gotten worse, it's getting filmed'

These 4 are just the latest to have learned this fact.

(I do feel some sympathy for what is probably going on within some stations where new cops are pressured to act in certain way and are then blamed as much as the main instigator simply because they did nothing, but, that is how the US justice system largely works, you can be convicted purely for being in the presence of someone who carried out the physical act)

cdeb

Overheal wrote: »

Watching Biden’s speech. Big difference from Trump. Longer remarks. Actually proposes solutions, on people introducing legislation to impose a federal ban on chokeholds for example. For setting up federal standards on use of force.

Doesn't that sound like it's too narrow though?

I mean, it would be good. But it's focussing on this exact one case, not the overall issue.

It's nowhere near addressing the likes of social inequality or general police training/conduct. So far away from them so as to really be irrelevant in fact.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Watching Biden’s speech. Big difference from Trump. Longer remarks. Actually proposes solutions, on people introducing legislation to impose a federal ban on chokeholds for example. For setting up federal standards on use of force.

He didn't start drooling or anything did he?..

Was he coherent for the duration?

CinemaGuy45

Overheal wrote: »

Because they never thought they were in danger of being in trouble for anything. Even as bystanders pleaded for his mercy.

That’s what’s important about these protests.

Police departments know who their bad cops are. They know it. They think “yeah that Jimmy, he’s a hot head, but what can you do, he’s not all bad.” Now, they should really begin thinking “we needed to get Jimmy out of here before we have a riot on our hands.” Ultimately they needed to be thinking “we can’t do this because our oversight is going to crucify us”

Look at our country and Maurice McCabe cleaning out a police force is not easy.

Overheal

cdeb wrote: »

Doesn't that sound like it's too narrow though?

I mean, it would be good. But it's focussing on this exact one case, not the overall issue.

It's nowhere near addressing the likes of social inequality or general police training/conduct. So far away from them so as to really be irrelevant in fact.

I’m sure I’m not reporting the larger breadth of his remarks. To wit, he’s still talking. It’s a 22 minute speech.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?472687-1/country-crying-leadership-joe-biden-philadelphia-speech

Not even the only speech he’s given in the last few days.

Trump talked for less than 5 minutes then tear gassed a bunch of peaceful protestors, an Australian camera crew (the prime minister is calling for an inquiry) so he could hold up a bible backwards.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He didn't start drooling or anything did he?..

Was he coherent for the duration?

^ this is what the cool kids call a Derangement Syndrome.

~Rebel~

cdeb wrote: »

That is a fundamentally relevant question in fairness.

American society is set up to crap on the poor - of any colour, but black people tend to be poorer, and it seems social mobility is much harder than in the past in America. Education is poor, it's too easy for big corporations to prey on poor people and get them into debt, it's too easy then for young people to see gangs as glamorous, and so on. I'm sure there's other factors you could add in there.

That's a huge issue to fix - and it does need to be addressed. Yet it's one of the major issues (along with police training) which isn't being talked about because everyone's so quick to play the racism card. That's really not helpful.

You posted earlier in the thread about the stop and frisk, where 90% of people stopped were black or latino, and suggested that was racist. But the NYPD crime stats show 90% of people arrested for crime were black or latino. So again, that points to this being far less of a race issue than is being made out.

There absolutely is a need for the black community to recognise its own high crime rate. It can't fix that problem on its own, of course - it needs societal help. It needs both sides to work on the problem. And that's miles away from happening at the moment.

As per my earlier source, 70% of those stopped or detained were entirely innocent, and were only stopped or detained because of their racial profile.

Overheal

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Look at our country and Maurice McCabe cleaning out a police force is not easy.

It sure isn’t but if it wasn’t painful it would have happened already.

cdeb

~Rebel~ wrote: »

As per my earlier source, 70% of those stopped or detained were entirely innocent, and were only stopped or detained because of their racial profile.

I don't really agree with the idea of stop and frisk - sounds a little bit too much like internment without trial - but if police were stopping people based roughly on the crime rates, then that's not racist. That's the police putting more priority on patrolling high crime areas, which is reasonable.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

^ this is what the cool kids call a Derangement Syndrome.

Really?..I am deranged with my hatred of Joe Biden?..In fairness, he doesn't look the same man as he was a few years ago..

Another tragedy here is that once again the democrats shafted the one person that could have probably addressed these issues with the most finesse..

CinemaGuy45

Overheal wrote: »

I’m sure I’m not reporting the larger breadth of his remarks. To wit, he’s still talking. It’s a 22 minute speech.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?472687-1/country-crying-leadership-joe-biden-philadelphia-speech

Not even the only speech he’s given in the last few days.

Trump talked for less than 5 minutes then tear gassed a bunch of peaceful protestors, an Australian camera crew (the prime minister is calling for an inquiry) so he could hold up a bible backwards.

We are on the other side of the Atlantic discussing this on and Irish board looking at the United States.

Trump is not going to win any prizes for giving inspirational speeches however trying to hold a so called peaceful protest while riots are happing everywhere is not very smart either.

cdeb

Overheal wrote: »

I’m sure I’m not reporting the larger breadth of his remarks. To wit, he’s still talking. It’s a 22 minute speech.

Fair enough.

Though giving a better speech than Trump is a low bar.

Deebles McBeebles

Overheal wrote: »

I shall elucidate:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ted-nugent-threatens-to-kill-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-during-vicious-onstage-rant-94687/

Pence better watch out. Old Ted looks like the perfect VP for the next term.

Foxtrol

Danzy wrote: »

Police in reality only help communities police themselves.

Given murder rates in communities like Baltimore, south Chicago wtc the police are not going to be able to control that, could the national guard, maybe, maybe not.

You would have to have stop and search for every single person.

It's not going to happen unless it starts in the community.

The community is a key part but you can't get the community onside with the way many areas are currently policing them. You're not going to start working with the police if their kids are getting sent to jail indefinitely for minor drug possession, or worse innocent kids are being harassed or straight up murdered by police.

There are so many parallels with the North, for years Catholics didn't trust the RUC so you get a never ending vicious cycle until the need to change was acknowledged by all parties.

In this case we seem to have agreement that act here was wrong but so many still have their heads in the sand about the systemic issues within the police.

Overheal

cdeb wrote: »

I don't really agree with the idea of stop and frisk - sounds a little bit too much like internment without trial - but if police were stopping people based roughly on the crime rates, then that's not racist. That's the police putting more priority on patrolling high crime areas, which is reasonable.

It can be cyclic though. Confirmation bias, to go looking for crime where you assume there will be crime for example.

I don’t have an actual stash to share with you but there are loads of traffic stop videos against people where you see the frustration when they pull someone over and they don’t smell any drugs in the car or any other actual reason to cite them. You get some highly interesting interactions when they pull over state attorneys and **** for driving while black.

Overheal

cdeb wrote: »

Fair enough.

Though giving a better speech than Trump is a low bar.

It’s the doormat!

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Really?..I am deranged with my hatred of Joe Biden?..In fairness, he doesn't look the same man as he was a few years ago..

Another tragedy here is that once again the democrats shafted the one person that could have probably addressed these issues with the most finesse..

Your post was insubstantial and had only a bunch of inane ageist epithets. The very definition of a deranged loathing of the individual in question.

CinemaGuy45

~Rebel~ wrote: »

As per my earlier source, 70% of those stopped or detained were entirely innocent, and were only stopped or detained because of their racial profile.

So 30% stopped were guilty of something seems very high.

Foxtrol

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

We are on the other side of the Atlantic discussing this on and Irish board looking at the United States.

Trump is not going to win any prizes for giving inspirational speeches however trying to hold a so called peaceful protest while riots are happing everywhere is not very smart either.

It was 6:30pm, there were no riots going on at that time in DC or anywhere else that I could see.

By that logic you can justify Bloody Sunday, it is really horrible

I doubt Joe Biden inspires deranged loathing in anyone..

And especially now in his dotage..

ExMachina1000

6th police officer shot. This time in Las Vegas. Critically injured

ChikiChiki

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He didn't start drooling or anything did he?..

Was he coherent for the duration?

In comparison with the clown who currently resides in The White House Joe Biden is an absolute breath of fresh air.

Now that is saying something.

cdeb

Overheal wrote: »

It can be cyclic though. Confirmation bias, to go looking for crime where you assume there will be crime for example.

I don’t have an actual stash to share with you but there are loads of traffic stop videos against people where you see the frustration when they pull someone over and they don’t smell any drugs in the car or any other actual reason to cite them. You get some highly interesting interactions when they pull over state attorneys and **** for driving while black.

Yeah, I can see how that could be a factor alright - but to me, that's not near enough to classify this as a race issue. In fact, doing so just takes away from the real issues and ensures nothing gets sorted