General British politics discussion thread

Rjd2 · 25-05-2020 1:26am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm genuinely baffled why boris Johnson is sticking by Dominic Cummings. I mean for better or worse the MPs in Westminster were elected by the British people yet Dominic Cummings has never been elected to anything yet seems to dictate policy to a degree well beyond his station.

Driving force behind Leave and Boris landslide, I don't like him but I get why Boris is reluctant to let him go.

Roanmore · 25-05-2020 8:57am

Apparently a lot of Tory MPs were told that if Boris became Leader Cummings would not be going in with him as adviser and he'd be moving on to something else so they voted for him (fools).
I'd keep an eye on Javid and Hunt, Hunt has been vocal about the Care Home situation but he may step it up this week.

Joe_ Public · 25-05-2020 9:22am

Cummings had Javids spad escorted out of downing st by armed police, then forced javid himself out. Many years ago, in his first spell of power around Downing St, he had David Davis sacked from a top job. He's been guts of years accumulating enemies and if Johnson can't see that toxicity, then he's an even bigger fool than i imagined. Knowing when a guy's outlived his usefulness is the key to a long political life, Cummings should have been gone the second brexit was over the line.

Given he was health minister while ppe stocks were run down, among other crimes, Jezza has to tread a bit more warily than he'd like.

Headshot · 25-05-2020 1:37pm

I read Cummings is to make a statement and take questions later today

I suspect he will be very combative and be Trump-est

Hopefully the press destroy him

Roanmore · 25-05-2020 1:47pm

I'd say the Labour Party are secretly hoping he stays.

Itssoeasy · 25-05-2020 3:52pm

So he's making a statement from the garden on Downing Street ? Surely that is reserved for the prime minister or the chancellor of the exchequer who you know actual live in Downing Street. Maybe there isn't a rule against him doing this but optics wise it looks bad IMO.

Also, I hope the press do a Colin lynch against Waterford in the Munster final in 1998.

8-10 · 25-05-2020 4:04pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So he's making a statement from the garden on Downing Street ? Surely that is reserved for the prime minister or the chancellor of the exchequer who you know actual live in Downing Street. Maybe there isn't a rule against him doing this but optics wise it looks bad IMO.

It's allegedly against code of conduct for a special advisor.

He's probably going to announce a charity donation or something to sweep it under the rug

25-05-2020 4:13pm

More likely to walk the plank before being pushed.

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2020 4:14pm

8-10 wrote: »

It's allegedly against code of conduct for a special advisor.

He's probably going to announce a charity donation or something to sweep it under the rug

I can see this being Boris Johnson's poll tax or MPs' expenses to be honest. He's elicited the same outrage from everyone from the Church of England to students to the elderly to working professionals. They're all singing from the same hymn sheet on this. The longer he stays, the worse it will be.

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 4:20pm

'and then, as I fell, a part of my body accidentally entered his body' oh wait....wrong excuse speech...

There really hasn't been a worse idea than Cummings doing this presser since Princess Diana went for a spin.

The only thing its useful for, is if he announces his resignation immediately, which it wouldn't take a conference to do, especially not for an unelected advisor, which is all is he is at the end of the day.

If he isn't resigning, he's explaining, which means he's losing. He won't be able to help himself from being baited either.

Get the popcorn Ginger!

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 4:42pm

This description he giving has been the story of a million British family for 10 weeks, most of whom never thought to drive 400 km as part of a solution.

The bringing of Covid into No.10 in the first place is now also a focus, what with Boris's own cavalier attitude to handshakes and physical distancing in the early stages even though he was warned and warned.

Itssoeasy · 25-05-2020 4:51pm

So that was Dominic Cummings then ? I'd never heard him speak and from that statement he comes across as thoroughly unimpressive. It's heard to believe that's the brexit mastermind.

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 4:52pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So that was Dominic Cummings then ? I'd never heard him speak and from that statement he comes across as thoroughly unimpressive. It's heard to believe that's the brexit mastermind.

You don't turn up at the Punch and Judy to hear the puppeteer speak.

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2020 4:52pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So that was Dominic Cummings then ? I'd never heard him speak and from that statement he comes across as thoroughly unimpressive. It's heard to believe that's the brexit mastermind.

This is him on his best behaviour being recorded live. I wouldn't say that this gives a true impression of him.

Itssoeasy · 25-05-2020 4:55pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This is him on his best behaviour being recorded live. I wouldn't say that this gives a true impression of him.

Fair enough. That recounting of the events may not help him. They don't dispel the fact that he didn't stick to the rules as laid out.

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 4:55pm

I didn't know his Mrs is a sub editor at the Spectator. So he hates the media, but not the Spectator or presumably the Telegraph, Express, Mail, Sun etc

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2020 4:58pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I didn't know his Mrs is a sub editor at the Spectator. So he hates the media, but not the Spectator or presumably the Telegraph, Express, Mail, Sun etc

A friend of mine is a nanny. Given that we're talking about one of the most powerful people in the country, there's no way he doesn't have a nanny if his OH is an editor at the world's oldest magazine.

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 5:07pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A friend of mine is a nanny. Given that we're talking about one of the most powerful people in the country, there's no way he doesn't have a nanny if his OH is an editor at the world's oldest magazine.

I'm not defending him, but would she stick around a family clearly ailing with this disease when she would probably be required to isolate herself somewhere.

BonnieSituation · 25-05-2020 5:07pm

He had a gimme and a lay up from Beth Rigby:

Do you think that you should have talked to the prime minister on the Friday?

Should have said: Probably, yes.

Dom says: * indefensible gibberish *

Larbre34 · 25-05-2020 5:09pm

Daily Mail putting the boot in is quite amusing.

Headshot · 25-05-2020 7:19pm

Anyone see the press conference.

I've seen some quotes and flabbergasted by the eye sight excuse

elitism at it's best.....

BonnieSituation · 25-05-2020 7:21pm

Headshot wrote: »

Anyone see the press conference.

I've seen some quotes and flabbergasted by the eye sight excuse

elitism at it's best.....

Most commentary of it is over on the UK Covid page.

It was a car crash.

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2020 7:25pm

Headshot wrote: »

Anyone see the press conference.

I've seen some quotes and flabbergasted by the eye sight excuse

elitism at it's best.....

He seems to think that because he says that he technically did not break any rules (which it seems that he did) then there's no problem. He does seem to get that he's trashed the spirit of this law and because the prime minister has outsourced himself to this man he will not be held accountable.

Headshot · 25-05-2020 7:30pm

BJ is very lucky Parliament isnt back yet as Starmer would destroy BJ

I'm listening to BJ news conference at the moment and mind boggling how this guy is the UK Prime Minister. He constantly talks so much crap and lies so much that it's like second nature.

I like the way BJ isnt let the journalist have a follow up to their questions...

golfball37 · 25-05-2020 7:33pm

Some witch hunt. All because the great and good hate him for his work on the referendum. No other country would a civil servant be hounded to this extent.

fash · 25-05-2020 7:45pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Some witch hunt. All because the great and good hate him for his work on the referendum. No other country would a civil servant be hounded to this extent.

He's not a civil servant- he's an unelected bureaucrat with almost absolute power and to whom the laws don't apply when he says so. No other country would allow such brazen illegal actions go unpunished. The turkeys really voted for Christmas when they gave control over to this guy.

farmerval · 25-05-2020 8:15pm

fash wrote: »

He's not a civil servant- he's an unelected bureaucrat with almost absolute power and to whom the laws don't apply when he says so. No other country would allow such brazen illegal actions go unpunished. The turkeys really voted for Christmas when they gave control over to this guy.

The above unintentionally gives the whole game away. Un-elected government adviser, remember all those un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels who made British people's lives unbearable, they now have the Prime Minister spending his full time defending the indefensible actions of his advisor.

This is a really really bad day for British democracy. Defending Cummings is going to push the agenda into an even bigger political split. It's really going down the Donald Trump route for the Tories, support the indefensible or be booted from your own party. The ramifications from this will be felt for a very long time.

Hermy · 25-05-2020 8:36pm

farmerval wrote: »

This is a really really bad day for British democracy.

Is there a chance that this could be a good day for British democracy?

After the mishandling of such a sensitive issue will the public finally see through the lies and the bullsh!t and recognise that this unelected representative has been stringing them all along for years?

Roanmore · 25-05-2020 8:37pm

Really shameful from the Cabinet. All tweeting the same just changed slightly as if to gibe the impression they came up with it themselves when obviously they were fed the line.

Gove said he addressed the untruths which were put out yesterday, any idea what they were because the story about Barnard Castle is true?

marno21 · 25-05-2020 8:40pm

Headshot wrote: »

BJ is very lucky Parliament isnt back yet as Starmer would destroy BJ

I'm listening to BJ news conference at the moment and mind boggling how this guy is the UK Prime Minister. He constantly talks so much crap and lies so much that it's like second nature.

I like the way BJ isnt let the journalist have a follow up to their questions...

The Tories have basically been operating unchecked since Corbyn and McDonnell moved in across the way from the PM in the House of Commons.

Starmer has made an excellent start of restoring the credibility of the Labour Party and it's politically useful that Starmer was elected leader during a massive crisis for the Tory leadership.

Johnson, Raab, Hancock, Patel etc. might not be so popular when someone calls out their calamitous behaviour.

farmerval · 25-05-2020 8:48pm

Hermy wrote: »

Is there a chance that this could be a good day for British democracy?

After the mishandling of such a sensitive issue will the public finally see through the lies and the bullsh!t and recognise that this unelected representative has been stringing them all along for years?

If the person/people responsible for this disaster cannot be held to account over this, what can they be held to account for, it really drives a bigger wedge into the with us or against us form of politics. This will really drive the Tories into the Republican mode in the states, whatever we are doing doesn't matter once we are benefiting from it.
If Johnson and Cummings survive this, how can anyone in the Tories challenge them in the future. This is so brazen, Vladimir Putin would be proud of it.

Sam Russell · 25-05-2020 8:56pm

farmerval wrote: »

If the person/people responsible for this disaster cannot be held to account over this, what can they be held to account for, it really drives a bigger wedge into the with us or against us form of politics. This will really drive the Tories into the Republican mode in the states, whatever we are doing doesn't matter once we are benefiting from it.
If Johnson and Cummings survive this, how can anyone in the Tories challenge them in the future. This is so brazen, Vladimir Putin would be proud of it.

He probably is.

Hermy · 25-05-2020 8:57pm

farmerval wrote: »

If the person/people responsible for this disaster cannot be held to account over this, what can they be held to account for, it really drives a bigger wedge into the with us or against us form of politics. This will really drive the Tories into the Republican mode in the states, whatever we are doing doesn't matter once we are benefiting from it.
If Johnson and Cummings survive this, how can anyone in the Tories challenge them in the future. This is so brazen, Vladimir Putin would be proud of it.

Does he need to be held to account when the electorate still support what the Tories are doing?

I'm just musing as to whether this is a bridge too far and the electorate make an about turn but maybe it's too late for that.

farmerval · 25-05-2020 9:05pm

Hermy wrote: »

Does he need to be held to account when the electorate still support what the Tories are doing?

I'm just musing as to whether this is a bridge too far and the electorate make an about turn but maybe it's too late for that.

Traditionally, the press held the government to account somewhat on the public's behalf. It's very hard to imagine that right now that the electorate would support keeping Cummings as a Government advisor.
If Boris Johnson can brazen this out, then what policy would he need to advance that he could be made do a U turn on. The Visa cost for NHS staff was one, but again that was so crass a move, especially when it was announced as to be unbelievable. Just after Boris was blustering on about the foreign nurses that had looked after him.
The fact that the cabinet all support everything they are told to like nodding donkeys tells us all we need to know. Presumably Cummings told them what to tweet this evening supporting him.

golfball37 · 25-05-2020 9:31pm

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.
I wish we were as good at demanding accountability from our own unelected civil servants but won’t hold my breath

Hermy · 25-05-2020 9:44pm

golfball37 wrote: »

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.
I wish we were as good at demanding accountability from our own unelected civil servants but won’t hold my breath

He wasn't visiting his elderly parents.

There's also the small matter of a pandemic.

listermint · 25-05-2020 9:50pm

golfball37 wrote: »

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.
I wish we were as good at demanding accountability from our own unelected civil servants but won’t hold my breath

He's not a civil servant as has been pointed out to you.
Try harder.

Professor Moriarty · 25-05-2020 9:52pm

farmerval wrote: »

If the person/people responsible for this disaster cannot be held to account over this, what can they be held to account for, it really drives a bigger wedge into the with us or against us form of politics. This will really drive the Tories into the Republican mode in the states, whatever we are doing doesn't matter once we are benefiting from it.
If Johnson and Cummings survive this, how can anyone in the Tories challenge them in the future. This is so brazen, Vladimir Putin would be proud of it.

Unless there's a new twist, I think they've already survived. The Tories will come up with some look-over-there rubbish and the Tory press will fall back into line as they're being paid to do.

25-05-2020 10:03pm

golfball37 wrote: »

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.
I wish we were as good at demanding accountability from our own unelected civil servants but won’t hold my breath

That is an inadvertently great analogy as a disproportionate amount of road deaths happen at night.
Nobody is on the roads but about half of all road deaths happen between midnight and 8 am.

https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Capt'n Midnight · 25-05-2020 10:40pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Some witch hunt. All because the great and good hate him for his work on the referendum. No other country would a civil servant be hounded to this extent.

How many civil servants have been hounded on his account ?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 26-05-2020 8:59am

golfball37 wrote: »

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.
I wish we were as good at demanding accountability from our own unelected civil servants but won’t hold my breath

How many times do you need to be told he's not a civil servant?

This is why so many politicians, their ilk and the likes of Cummings do these pathetic statements; there's always gullible people out there who'll buy any sort of excuse.

moon2 · 26-05-2020 9:14am

golfball37 wrote: »

The reaction to this is quite fascinating. A guy breaks a soft law akin to running a red light at 4am with nobody on the road, all to visit elderly parents and the world wants his head.

Many people were locked at home, much to their detriment, and he continued on as normal doing whatever he felt like.

What do you think would have happened were everyone to have the same selfish "I'll do whatever I feel like" mentality. It's quite easy to understand why people want him gone. It's nothing like running a red light at 4am

fash · 26-05-2020 9:38am

moon2 wrote: »

Many people were locked at home, much to their detriment, and he continued on as normal doing whatever he felt like.

What do you think would have happened were everyone to have the same selfish "I'll do whatever I feel like" mentality. It's quite easy to understand why people want him gone. It's nothing like running a red light at 4am

It's the cover up for the clear illegality coupled with the feigned outrage at the much lesser illegality of Dr Ferguson that is the issue.
Had he put his hand up, apologised and paid a fine, there wouldn't be an issue. Instead this is just another opportunity for the UK to walk away from the rule of law - see the UK's attorney general for more outrageous behaviour.
A corrupt and fallen state.

Joe_ Public · 26-05-2020 11:41am

Interesting discussion on sarah mcinerney show just there, didnt catch name of guys on, two uk political strategists, but discussion moved on from Cummings future to Johnsons future. I'm not sure we're there yet, but that's where this is going for sure. One more mistake after this, one of them said, and that would be it. One thing for sure, anyone who ever wanted to credit Johnson with a certain level of intelligence needs to think again. Judging the public mood is elementary politics. Johnson doesn't even have a grasp of the basics.

LuckyLloyd · 26-05-2020 2:09pm

Polling today indicates Johnson has lost 20 points in approval rates over the scandal. 59% of the electorate now believe Cummings should resign, up from 52% before yesterday’s briefing. That includes 46% of Tory voters (46% believe he should stay) and 52% of leave voters.

First rule of PR: do something quickly if you’re going to have to do it eventually.

BonnieSituation · 26-05-2020 3:28pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Polling today indicates Johnson has lost 20 points in approval rates over the scandal. 59% of the electorate now believe Cummings should resign, up from 52% before yesterday’s briefing. That includes 46% of Tory voters (46% believe he should stay) and 52% of leave voters.

First rule of PR: do something quickly if you’re going to have to do it eventually.

Yup!

Any rational observer of this crapshow since Friday has seen every opportunity for salvation just fritter away.

Now he has to deal with it again tomorrow at the liaison committee.

And it's only 1530 on a Tuesday. More left in the day yet.

It's going to have to reach a crescendo and he'll be gone by tomorrow surely?

devnull · 26-05-2020 3:38pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yup!

Any rational observer of this crapshow since Friday has seen every opportunity for salvation just fritter away.

Now he has to deal with it again tomorrow at the liaison committee.

And it's only 1530 on a Tuesday. More left in the day yet.

It's going to have to reach a crescendo and he'll be gone by tomorrow surely?

The Whips are excluding people from the liaison committee now apparently.

Joe_ Public · 26-05-2020 3:42pm

devnull wrote: »

The Whips are excluding people from the liaison committee now apparently.

After their tin pot stunt to appoint Bernard Jenkin as committee chairman last week, there are no depths to which they'll stoop. By my count there are at least 5 tory members of the committee who have publicly called on Cummings to go. This latest stunt could easily backfire.

PommieBast · 26-05-2020 3:56pm

fash wrote: »

It's the cover up for the clear illegality coupled with the feigned outrage at the much lesser illegality of Dr Ferguson that is the issue.
Had he put his hand up, apologised and paid a fine, there wouldn't be an issue. Instead this is just another opportunity for the UK to walk away from the rule of law - see the UK's attorney general for more outrageous behaviour.
A corrupt and fallen state.

The writing was on the wall with R v Huhne back in 2013. I stopped paying attention to the rot after that.

BonnieSituation · 26-05-2020 4:26pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

After their tin pot stunt to appoint Bernard Jenkin as committee chairman last week, there are no depths to which they'll stoop. By my count there are at least 5 tory members of the committee who have publicly called on Cummings to go. This latest stunt could easily backfire.

Well, given how they've made ALL the right moves thus far...

General British politics discussion thread

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