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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,454 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Just in case anyone's worried about the Russians eavesdropping, Boris handed everything over to Zoom. It's amateur hour.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/01/zoom_spotlight/

    They're not the only ones, the NZ govt got caught using it to in a similar manner and have had to refer it to the GCSB to see if zoom actually is secure enough to ever use for govt again. Maybe it's a 5 eyes thing...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    FT: Keir Starmer refuses to rule out government of national unit

    https://www.ft.com/content/e212f9d1-be2b-4a0d-b429-fcc5d17f967c

    Behind a paywall but the content is predictable. Unlikely to actually be offered and there are suspicions that if it was it would be about spreading blame rather than unity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Anyone watching the Labour Party Leadership results? Due any minute

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Kier Starmer is the new Labour leader. Just think, they could have saved three months by giving him the job.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Good to see that Momentum and the Corbynistas are taking the result well (check some of the replies)
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1246375178684239874

    They're all going to George Galloway's party apparently
    https://twitter.com/WorkersPartyGB/with_replies


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    devnull wrote: »
    Good to see that Momentum and the Corbynistas are taking the result well (check some of the replies)
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1246375178684239874

    They're all going to George Galloway's party apparently
    https://twitter.com/WorkersPartyGB/with_replies

    Hopefully they will all get the hell out of there... imagine what could have been avoided had Labour got a decent leader before now.

    Anyway, better late than never I suppose, Labour will be so much more electable without those morons in it.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    This is why Kier needed to win - His popularity outside the party is way ahead of anyone else.

    Believed to have got 56% on first round of voting.

    RLB was popular in Labour but deeply unpopular in the country as a whole.

    508196.png

    From Lord Ashcroft Poll on analysing last years Labour Election Defeat.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Deputy Leader Results

    Round 1
    ALLIN-KHAN, Rosena 77,351 (16.8%)
    BURGON, Richard 80,053 (17.3%)
    BUTLER, Dawn 50,255 (10.9%) [ELIMINATED]
    MURRAY, Ian 61,179 (13.3%)
    RAYNER, Angela 192,168 (41.7%)

    Round 2
    ALLIN-KHAN, Rosena 88,049 (19.52%)
    BURGON, Richard 88,664 (19.66%)
    MURRAY, Ian 64,560 (14.32%) [ELIMINATED]
    RAYNER, Angela 209,698 (46.5%)

    Round 3
    ALLIN-KHAN, Rosena 113,858 (26.1%)
    BURGON, Richard 92,643 (21.3%)
    RAYNER, Angela 228,944 (52.6%) [ELECTED]


  • Registered Users Posts: 53,689 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Hopefully this is the start of Labour getting back on track, the best candidate has won.

    Delighted to see the likes of Long-Bailey well behind in the votes, the days of Corbynism needs to be dead now


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    devnull wrote: »
    Good to see that Momentum and the Corbynistas are taking the result well (check some of the replies)
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1246375178684239874

    They're all going to George Galloway's party apparently
    https://twitter.com/WorkersPartyGB/with_replies

    Lol the idiots cannot see 2 feet in front of them, moving to another party while FPtP is still running is absolutely pointless


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Good to see Momentum are being non divisive

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1246379634784194561


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Yes, at least we will now have a sensible opposition party that can actually win votes... and seats, and finally be able to hold the Tories to account.

    The two traditional big parties in the UK have been utterly daft the past few years... the Tories were allowed get away with blue murder the past while, at least Labour have finally copped themselves on and will hopefully drift back towards the centre and appeal to the masses in the UK.

    The first thing Labour needs to do is get rid of Momentum and the grip they have over the party, it's clearly been an absolute failure. Time to bring back the many sensible moderate members of the Labour party, and finally clamp down on things like anti-semitism, threats of de-selection, etc. The problem with the left is that the first item of the agenda is the split and they would rather be in opposition to retain ideological purity over a bit of compromise so they can actually achieve something for the people they claim to represent.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    They're not the only ones, the NZ govt got caught using it to in a similar manner and have had to refer it to the GCSB to see if zoom actually is secure enough to ever use for govt again. Maybe it's a 5 eyes thing...
    About that ...

    Not only is Zoom's strong end-to-end encryption not actually end-to-end, its encryption isn't even that strong
    Video calls also routed through China, probe discovers

    This picture explains the encryption
    https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/04/03/handout_citizen_lab_zoom_aes_ecb2.jpg


    Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
    This in a week were private buyers in the US have gazumped PPE heading to Europe and the US is trying to get 3M to stop mask exports. There's plenty of motive out there as people are trying to make a quick buck or knee-jerk reactions.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The two traditional big parties in the UK have been utterly daft the past few years... the Tories were allowed get away with blue murder the past

    Labour knew about this and still went with an unwinnable leader.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report
    More than 130,000 deaths in the UK since 2012 could have been prevented if improvements in public health policy had not stalled as a direct result of austerity cuts, according to a hard-hitting analysis to be published this week.

    A different question is whether an electable Labour government would have had a better response, but bear in mind they wouldn't have had time to undo the running down of the NHS.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 Bayman81


    devnull wrote: »
    Good to see Momentum are being non divisive

    Green New Deal...Why do the hard left always keep getting associated with environmental protection?
    Under Evo Morales Bolivia destroyed far more percentage of it’s rain forest than Brazil ever did. Not to mention Chernobyl, East Germanys sulphuric coal power plants and the black rivers in Vietnams Mekong delta....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    devnull wrote: »
    Good to see that Momentum and the Corbynistas are taking the result well (check some of the replies)
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1246375178684239874

    They're all going to George Galloway's party apparently
    https://twitter.com/WorkersPartyGB/with_replies


    Apparently Starmer's job is to continue with Corbyn's plans. I'm not sure they understand what a change in leadership is. Following that logic; if/when Labour gain power again, it'll be their job to continue implementing the policies the Conservatives had been carrying out before them.

    Overall, I'm glad Starmer is leader. From what I've seen he's the candidate least beholden to stuff like identity politics.

    I know his name is mud among Labour supporters, but Tony Blair nailed it when he said Labour would never gain power again while they are seen to be overly focused on things like Transgender rights, race, gender quotas etc. Not because these are all necessarily unworthy causes, but the number of votes Labour will gain by making them central planks of their policies is tiny. They're also more likely to lose more votes than they gain, because people feel that Labour are focusing on issues that don't affect the vast vast majority of people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭fiveleavesleft


    more likely to lose more votes than they gain, because people feel that Labour are focusing on issues that don't affect the vast vast majority of people.

    Was that not one of Blair's great failings also?

    I don't see much future in the Labour party to be honest, the calibre of people in the leadership contest was abysmal.

    Amazing to think the party was born with a man named Keir & now may die with a man named Keir.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    devnull wrote: »
    Good to see that Momentum and the Corbynistas are taking the result well (check some of the replies)
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1246375178684239874

    About as well as the centrists did with Corbyn?

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Was that not one of Blair's great failings also?

    Do leaders who focus on issues that don't affect the vast majority of people normally win massive landslides at the polls that involve taking almost two thirds of the seats in Parliament for consecutive elections?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Was that not one of Blair's great failings also?

    I don't see much future in the Labour party to be honest, the calibre of people in the leadership contest was abysmal.

    Amazing to think the party was born with a man named Keir & now may die with a man named Keir.:D
    Blair won 3 elections, including 2 huge majorities. Corbyn respectably lost one election, and got slaughtered in another.
    It's fair to say Blair's policies resonated far more with the electorate than you claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Personally i dont want starmer to be either blair or corbyn. I want him to be his own man and steer a course that can bring as many from the left together and those who dont like it can go elsewhere.

    As tragic as it is, the current plight does at least offer the prospect of a clearer vision going forward, one that can unambiguously point to the role true socialist ideals are playing in supporting families through the crisis. I think that will be sellable. Keeping the conservatives away from the nhs should be implanted on every uk citizens brain once this is all over and done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Personally i dont want starmer to be either blair or corbyn. I want him to be his own man and steer a course that can bring as many from the left together and those who dont like it can go elsewhere.

    As tragic as it is, the current plight does at least offer the prospect of a clearer vision going forward, one that can unambiguously point to the role true socialist ideals are playing in supporting families through the crisis. I think that will be sellable. Keeping the conservatives away from the nhs should be implanted on every uk citizens brain once this is all over and done.

    He needs to win back the Northern voters who always voted Labour until this time.

    Just winning over more remainers and the cities won't do it.

    I just can't understand why people in the North and the Midlands voted for them... but the fact is they did. They need to find a way to get them back on the fold.

    They should try and blunt the appeal of the SNP, but that's difficult really, Scotland is going on a very different course to the rest of the UK (certainly England) in any case and nothing less than full EU membership will do there. But Labour in power, or looking like they could be in power, will win over some because it's much easier to sell the idea of independence with the Tories in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    He needs to win back the Northern voters who always voted Labour until this time.

    Just winning over more remainers and the cities won't do it.

    I just can't understand why people in the North and the Midlands voted for them... but the fact is they did. They need to find a way to get them back on the fold.

    They should try and blunt the appeal of the SNP, but that's difficult really, Scotland is going on a very different course to the rest of the UK (certainly England) in any case and nothing less than full EU membership will do there. But Labour in power, or looking like they could be in power, will win over some because it's much easier to sell the idea of independence with the Tories in.

    I agree. Though if you check the stats, you'll see Lab performance in the north in December was just a continuation of the haemorrhaging of votes over several elections. Corbyns failure wasnt to cause that, but to fail to stop the bleeding. The mines are all gone now and there's no community structure around the unions that labour fed into as of old. So thats a challenge? Do they just accept they're a young, cosmopolitan centred party now and figure a way of getting young people and minorites out to vote? Or go back to broad church principles? I dont know, but will be fascinating to observe.

    Ideally, I'd love to see pretty much everything that was in labour manifesto brought into being at some stage, but that is likely asking a lot on my part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Corbyn had too much left wing political activism from his past that the UK media were able to hammer

    The right wing media won't be able to do the same to an ex army labour leader.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Corbyn had too much left wing political activism from his past that the UK media were able to hammer

    The right wing media won't be able to do the same to an ex army labour leader.

    Starmer the former actual Marxist you mean? Of course they'll hammer him, because unless you suck up to Murdoch et al. and become someone Thatcher would have admired, they ALWAYS do.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    I dunno if marxist is meant as a pejorative term but i wouldnt make an awful lot of views politicians may have held as students. John Bercow was a leftie when he was at college, even Boris johnson was said to be a radical once upon a time. Students edge away to fringes as there's no excitement in the centre. Starmer was one of those who joined the initial heave against corbyn, then accepted role in shadow cabinet while ensuring he kept strategic distance from the leadership whenever possible.

    That suggests a deeply cute, pragmatic core that might well stand him in good stead for the challenge ahead.

    Dont forget Angela Rayner as deputy, very popular and capable politician who commands respect on all sides. They could make a good team. Here's hoping anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,816 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Well he decided his first major published article as Labour Leader would be behind a paywall of a Rupert Murdoch newspaper so that's encouraging, or something.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    I guess you could interpret that different ways. It's not exactly murdoch putting blair on speed dial territory yet! But bottom line I'm not going to sweat the small stuff a day into a guy's leadership. The last one was barely into his acceptance speech when the campaign to oust him was put into gear. This leader will get his chance and i say that as someone who was more sympathetic to corbyn than most round here.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Cull of the Corbynites has started

    https://twitter.com/BarryGardiner/status/1246805606939463681

    Wonder what else we'll see today, there's rumour that there will be more changes to come as the day goes on.

    Any predictions?


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