Were all socialists spoilt as children?

terrydel wrote: »

I think Ireland is economically speaking, as far from socialism and its ideals as it has ever been.
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The Irish free state was created by people who admired Russia. ie. their perception of what socialism entailed. Not necessarily the communism that evolved, but what was known at the time. Which was very little, considering the lack of communication.

Modern Ireland is a socialist society with a capitalist economy. Socialism tends to appeal to politicians who want the poor vote, and Ireland has been poor many times.

We need some kind of social democratic system that has a fairer distribution of wealth and resources, moves away from the idea of consumerism and towards sustainability. How we get there is an entirely different debate.

What we really need is a reset button, with the removal of political families, the banning of corporate contributions in political processes, and a system of accountability for politicians/public servants. Democracy can only work when it's servants are held accountable for their actions. Ours aren't. Modern democracy doesn't punish politicians and officials who are corrupt. It rewards them. But that's not going to happen.

To be honest, I feel that democracy in the West is essentially dead. What happened after the Banking crash confirmed that for me. The lack of punishment for the politicians or banking reps along with the bank bailouts just confirmed to me that the citizens have little real power in western countries. It's been a few decades since they did except on minor issues. I often wonder do Europeans realise just how regulated their lives are? Licenses and degrees are needed for just about everything these days...

terrydel wrote: »

I'd prefer if we were far more socialist as a society, especially in terms of removing the power of the church from our system of education. It is an absolute scandal that they still own and operate such a large % of that education system after the crimes they committed and facilitated.

I received both Church and State education. The church education was excellent, and they didn't do anything to anyone while I was there. I don't particularly like this blanket criticism of the Church. They've done a lot of good in this country over the years.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm essentially anti-religion, but, in terms of education, they're not terribly bad in comparison to state education. In fact, in some ways, they're superior. Really depends on the particular institution and how it's operated.

And it always staggers me how little Irish people seem bothered by the fact that the banks did what they did and handed us and the next few generations the bill and walked away essentially unpunished. We just dont seem as a people to care about that at all.

Short attention spans, and being more concerned with immediate problems. I remember the outrage after the banking crash. I genuinely thought for a few months that we might see people march on Dublin to burn out the politicians. Nothing came of it. That was the end of my hope for real change in this country.

Our facilitation of corporate tax avoidance on a grand scale is perhaps the thing that bothers me most about our neoliberal economy, it is beyond a joke at this stage. Its almost like they are laughing in our faces with it, especially as the latest recipients are instututional property investors right at a time when we have the biggest housing crisis in the history of the state.

I tend to laugh when people criticise China for it's corrupt society, because from what I've seen in four decades, is similar corruption in western countries by officials. Western countries just hide it better.

Totally agree on the reset button, our political system is it entirely self-serving, existing only to ensure the status quo and give us the illusion of having a choice. The entire public service is unaccountable, the maurice mccabe scandal has proved that beyond doubt, Francis Fitzgerald actually got monetarily rewarded for her role in it!

Yup. The American model is to be lauded and copied as much as possible. While everyone seems bent on criticizing Trump, it's worth considering how much the personal net worth of Clinton, Bush, Obama increased while they were in office... Trump entered with Billions already and seems less interested in being bribed. He's still a muppet, but probably a reasonably honest muppet, in comparison to past presidents.

Wibbs wrote: »

I was with you up to these parts:

Western nations have a long way to go, some more than others, but China is a totalitarian state where any criticism is stamped on, where surveillance of the citizenry is off the charts and in the open and getting worse year on year.

I meant it in relation to corruption. Not their other activities.