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Were all socialists spoilt as children?

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    #32
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Catholicism is deeply socialist economically

    Well, one of the tenets of Socialism is that everybody gets to share in the wealth, I don't see much evidence for that in the RCC.

    If Socialists are spoilt then Boris Johnson must be a rabid Socialist, he's a rabid something anyway.


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    #33
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Was jesus a socialist?

    No I do not think Christ could accurately be described socialist or capitalist.


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    #34
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I think I have a better insight into the causes of criminality than most. That fact that you disagree is proof.

    oh this should be interesting(or maybe not), please explain?


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    #35
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Viva Che!


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    #36
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    To be fair, I am very sympathetic to the young people who have been dispossessed by the greedy older generations which hoard the wealth and pulled the ladder up after them. The young get necklaced with the 200 billion euro + debt we accumulated.

    true but if ytheir college degree was along the lines of Himalayan studies with interpretative dance then i aint listening to their theories of why capitalism and the patriarchy must fall :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #37
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    oh this should be interesting(or maybe not), please explain?

    Isn`t it obvious? I`m right, you disagree so by necessity, that makes you wrong.


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    #38
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote:
    Isn`t it obvious? I`m right, you disagree so by necessity, that makes you wrong.


    narcissism is an interesting disorder


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    #39
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    No I do not think Christ could accurately be described socialist or capitalist.

    Well he did run the moneylenders out of the temple in Jerusalem


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    #40
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Probably not as spoiled as socialists in Cuba or Venezuela.


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    #41
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,704 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Day Lewin wrote: »

    Surrounded by mé-féiners and ex-rural gombeenmen, he was scrupulous about social justice and completely devoid of snobbery.

    Looks like his lack of snobbery has skipped a generation.


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    #42
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,789 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I made a similar point some time back about Communists tending to be atheist and the fact that Communism is a failed ideology.

    Maybe I'm a bit slow here, but I fail to find any similarity in these two points.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Children who grow up thinking the world owes them a living tend to be spoit.

    Socialists also tend to think this way, hence the question, were socialists spoilt as children? I am not saying they were necessarily because I think an adult who displays behaviour similar to a spoilt brat were I suspect raised by permissive parents. This is a particular parenting style were kids basically do what they want without boundaries and often they get what they want if the parent is also over indulgent.

    I see this spoilt type of adult everyday in my line of work. Sometimes they drink alcohol when they really shouldn`t and they fail to take instruction even when they are sober (which they are most of the time).

    What should we as a nation do to stamp out spoilt behaviour? Do all new parents need to be thought the authoritative parenting method? Do we need bigger prisons and forced labor camps for those who are already grown up but are spoilt and in need of reforming? Spoilt people gravitate to a life of crime so discipline must be rigorous and immediate in my opinion.

    This system of waiting until they have a lot of offenses committed before they are incarcerated, simply won`t do.

    Yes. Spoilt children to be put into forced labour camps.


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    #44
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    All? Obviously not.

    Is there a very privileged middle-class/upper middle-class element today in the West among those who identify as socialist? Yes.


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    #45
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Children who grow up thinking the world owes them a living tend to be spoit.

    Socialists also tend to think this way, hence the question, were socialists spoilt as children?
    As you have not clearly defined what a "socialist" is, I am uncertain what we are talking about. I could do the same by not defining what a capitalist is, and stumble along with an alternative anecdotal and terribly broad sweeping generalisation of poor little rich kids, who "grow up thinking the world owes them a living" and "tend to be spoiled."

    Questions to what extent children of multi-millionaire and billionaire parents living across the pond in capitalistic America (top 3% who control 80% of the wealth in America), with servants attending to all their children's needs from the moment of birth until their last breath (like the current holder of the US presidency), including admission to the most prestigious, expensive schools and universities, the highest priced and best US health care, privileged access to high status and paying occupations, and access to powerful established business networks going back generations.

    Then again, without specific definitions, I would exercise a bit of caution before discussing what a socialist or a capitalist is, or what may be also termed as social welfare, or alternatively capitalistic WEALTHfare, and if either or both of these life chances may or may not lead to children who think the "world owes them a living," or "tend to be spoiled."

    Just my 2-euros in answer to your question...


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    #46
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    To be fair, I am very sympathetic to the young people who have been dispossessed by the greedy older generations which hoard the wealth and pulled the ladder up after them. The young get necklaced with the 200 billion euro + debt we accumulated.

    Most on the left have little to say about the generational wealth gap, I've seen little opposition to increased goodies for pensioners

    There more preoccupied with gender pronouns


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    #47
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    Well, one of the tenets of Socialism is that everybody gets to share in the wealth, I don't see much evidence for that in the RCC.

    If Socialists are spoilt then Boris Johnson must be a rabid Socialist, he's a rabid something anyway.

    Classic Catholicism is Conservative on issues of morality and sexuality but on economics, very pro redistribution of wealth

    Many of the Protestant faiths in America seem to believe jesus had the same politics as Ronald Reagan


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    #48
    Tired Gardener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Tired Gardener


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Classic Catholicism is Conservative on issues of morality and sexuality but on economics, very pro redistribution of wealth.

    In theory yes, in practice, no. Hence the Vatican holding so much wealth, the Catholic church is very wealthy, yet a lot of countries that are Catholic are poor. That isn't to say that Catholics can't be generous and give to charity, but as an organisation, it is far from about redistribution of wealth.
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Many of the Protestant faiths in America seem to believe jesus had the same politics as Ronald Reagan

    That is more Evangelical Christianity than Protestantism. The two may share some similarities, but are very different. That isn't to say that Protestantism is all about redistribution of wealth, as it isn't.


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    #49
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Tired Gardener wrote: »
    In theory yes, in practice, no. Hence the Vatican holding so much wealth, the Catholic church is very wealthy, yet a lot of countries that are Catholic are poor. That isn't to say that Catholics can't be generous and give to charity, but as an organisation, it is far from about redistribution of wealth.



    That is more Evangelical Christianity than Protestantism. The two may share some similarities, but are very different. That isn't to say that Protestantism is all about redistribution of wealth, as it isn't.

    The rise of modern capitalism coincided with the rise of protestantism

    This thing about the Catholic Church being very wealthy is a red herring, you hardly expect the HQ to look like a halting site


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    #50
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Was jesus a socialist?

    If we are talking the same Jesus who preached the parable of the talents, definitely not a lefty.

    Matthew 25:14-30

    Jesus was about using resources around you to the full, growing wealth and not being lazy.


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    #51
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭storker


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Classic Catholicism is [...] very pro redistribution of wealth

    Including Church wealth?


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    #52
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,789 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    topper75 wrote: »
    If we are talking the same Jesus who preached the parable of the talents, definitely not a lefty.

    Matthew 25:14-30

    Jesus was about using resources around you to the full, growing wealth and not being lazy.

    Well the loaves and fishes story would seem to fit well with some of our less bright, left leaning politicians in Ireland!


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    #53
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,110 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    How come most Christians have right wing, conservative tendencies, while jesus, as he is portrayed, was very much anti establishment and, arguably, socialist?

    He only supposedly lived until 33.

    Imagine a 60 year old Jesus.

    He would have seen enough at that stage and be pretty conservative.
    He would be well peed off with all the layabouts hanging around him year after year demanding yet another miracle of the loaves and fishes because they were too damn lazy to get off their ar**es and go fishing or baking.

    The samaritans would be complaining their new CEO needed all that money for his expenses to get his new chariot to his new holiday gaff on the Red Sea.

    The parents would be in an old folks home and the Romans claiming all the taxes they paid were for the wars in Britain and there were no pensions for them or welfare card.
    And yet Jesus would be looking at all these layabouts following him around, off to the local Roman fort every week for their "dole".

    Every ex hooker would be hanging around after hearing about how well Mary Magdalene would have done.

    The disciples would now number 400, between cousins, brother brothers, brother in laws, all the kids with the ex hookers and not one of them bringing in a wage.

    Even Jesus would be demanding that "the Roman dole" was cut and the unemployed were made do a honest days work.

    PS I hereby claim the rights for the movie "60 year old Jesus".


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    #54
    Marhay70
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Marhay70


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    The rise of modern capitalism coincided with the rise of protestantism

    This thing about the Catholic Church being very wealthy is a red herring, you hardly expect the HQ to look like a halting site

    The Protestant Reformation might not have happened were it not for the RCC's obsession with acquiring and accumulating wealth.
    There is no need for the RCC or indeed the various Protestant sects to have the trimmings they do, indeed it goes against what we're told is the spirit of Christianity itself. Huge ostentatious buildings filled with priceless works of art are far from the vision Jesus is said to have had for his church.


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    #55
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,789 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Marhay70 wrote: »
    The Protestant Reformation might not have happened were it not for the RCC's obsession with acquiring and accumulating wealth.
    There is no need for the RCC or indeed the various Protestant sects to have the trimmings they do, indeed it goes against what we're told is the spirit of Christianity itself. Huge ostentatious buildings filled with priceless works of art are far from the vision Jesus is said to have had for his church.

    I've often said that if Jesus was alive today, he'd be rolling in his grave!


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    #56
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Does the OP have any idea what a socialist is?


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    #57
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Classic Catholicism is Conservative on issues of morality and sexuality but on economics, very pro redistribution of wealth

    Many of the Protestant faiths in America seem to believe jesus had the same politics as Ronald Reagan

    Tell that to the Vatican.


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    #58
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Socialism in it's purest form isn't a terrible idea. It's just that it, as with all political or social ideologies implemented by people, fails badly in the real world.

    It fails badly because it's a terrible idea.
    That's pretty much the definition of a terrible idea, something that fails miserably every time with no exception.


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    #59
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Cordell wrote: »
    It fails badly because it's a terrible idea.
    That's pretty much the definition of a terrible idea, something that fails miserably every time with no exception.

    I dont know, examing what use to be a common belief that was seen as the natural order of thing is no harm.....The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly And ordered their estate..........


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    #60
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I don't know what you're on about, but helping the poor and creating a fair society in general it's not what socialism is about.


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    #61
    Tired Gardener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭Tired Gardener


    Cordell wrote: »
    I don't know what you're on about, but helping the poor and creating a fair society in general it's not what socialism is about.

    That is pretty much the definition of Socialism. Building a fair society and lifting people out of poverty is pretty central to Socialism.

    A few regimes that have used the word 'Socailist' aren't actually socialist, this may be what you are confusing to get to such a conclusion.


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