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Child Item

Were all socialists spoilt as children?

realitykeeper

Children who grow up thinking the world owes them a living tend to be spoit.

Socialists also tend to think this way, hence the question, were socialists spoilt as children? I am not saying they were necessarily because I think an adult who displays behaviour similar to a spoilt brat were I suspect raised by permissive parents. This is a particular parenting style were kids basically do what they want without boundaries and often they get what they want if the parent is also over indulgent.

I see this spoilt type of adult everyday in my line of work. Sometimes they drink alcohol when they really shouldn`t and they fail to take instruction even when they are sober (which they are most of the time).

What should we as a nation do to stamp out spoilt behaviour? Do all new parents need to be thought the authoritative parenting method? Do we need bigger prisons and forced labor camps for those who are already grown up but are spoilt and in need of reforming? Spoilt people gravitate to a life of crime so discipline must be rigorous and immediate in my opinion.

This system of waiting until they have a lot of offenses committed before they are incarcerated, simply won`t do.

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terrydel

Cordell wrote: »

Call me out on the things I say, but don't imply that I say the wrong things on purpose, whatever purpose that may be. To be wrong is one thing, to be, as you put it, deliberately wrong is a totally different thing and I've no interest in the latter.

Well you are wrong in this case.

[Deleted User]

terrydel wrote: »

I think Ireland is economically speaking, as far from socialism and its ideals as it has ever been.
.

The Irish free state was created by people who admired Russia. ie. their perception of what socialism entailed. Not necessarily the communism that evolved, but what was known at the time. Which was very little, considering the lack of communication.

Modern Ireland is a socialist society with a capitalist economy. Socialism tends to appeal to politicians who want the poor vote, and Ireland has been poor many times.

We need some kind of social democratic system that has a fairer distribution of wealth and resources, moves away from the idea of consumerism and towards sustainability. How we get there is an entirely different debate.

What we really need is a reset button, with the removal of political families, the banning of corporate contributions in political processes, and a system of accountability for politicians/public servants. Democracy can only work when it's servants are held accountable for their actions. Ours aren't. Modern democracy doesn't punish politicians and officials who are corrupt. It rewards them. But that's not going to happen.

To be honest, I feel that democracy in the West is essentially dead. What happened after the Banking crash confirmed that for me. The lack of punishment for the politicians or banking reps along with the bank bailouts just confirmed to me that the citizens have little real power in western countries. It's been a few decades since they did except on minor issues. I often wonder do Europeans realise just how regulated their lives are? Licenses and degrees are needed for just about everything these days...

James Brown

The op is essentially, 'Kids today, amiright?'

As a rule spoiled people don't want to share with others so Communism/Socialism wouldn't really be their bag.

Cordell

terrydel wrote: »

Well you are wrong in this case.

I'm open to corrections, but: trade unions protect the interests of their members, that is, among others, they prevent non-members from accessing their jobs. While this may help with the "race to the bottom" issue, it also keep non-members into poverty. They are generally highly corrupt and essentially run by self serving individuals that are worse than politicians.

terrydel

Deleted User wrote: »

The Irish free state was created by people who admired Russia. ie. their perception of what socialism entailed. Not necessarily the communism that evolved, but what was known at the time. Which was very little, considering the lack of communication.

Modern Ireland is a socialist society with a capitalist economy. Socialism tends to appeal to politicians who want the poor vote, and Ireland has been poor many times.

What we really need is a reset button, with the removal of political families, the banning of corporate contributions in political processes, and a system of accountability for politicians/public servants. Democracy can only work when it's servants are held accountable for their actions. Ours aren't. Modern democracy doesn't punish politicians and officials who are corrupt. It rewards them. But that's not going to happen.

To be honest, I feel that democracy in the West is essentially dead. What happened after the Banking crash confirmed that for me. The lack of punishment for the politicians or banking reps along with the bank bailouts just confirmed to me that the citizens have little real power in western countries. It's been a few decades since they did except on minor issues. I often wonder do Europeans realise just how regulated their lives are? Licenses and degrees are needed for just about everything these days...

I'd prefer if we were far more socialist as a society, especially in terms of removing the power of the church from our system of education. It is an absolute scandal that they still own and operate such a large % of that education system after the crimes they committed and facilitated.
And it always staggers me how little Irish people seem bothered by the fact that the banks did what they did and handed us and the next few generations the bill and walked away essentially unpunished. We just dont seem as a people to care about that at all. So long as we got back to our property sections in the paper, our suv's on pcp and our iphones, we were ok.
Our facilitation of corporate tax avoidance on a grand scale is perhaps the thing that bothers me most about our neoliberal economy, it is beyond a joke at this stage. Its almost like they are laughing in our faces with it, especially as the latest recipients are instututional property investors right at a time when we have the biggest housing crisis in the history of the state.

Totally agree on the reset button, our political system is it entirely self-serving, existing only to ensure the status quo and give us the illusion of having a choice. The entire public service is unaccountable, the maurice mccabe scandal has proved that beyond doubt, Francis Fitzgerald actually got monetarily rewarded for her role in it!

terrydel

Cordell wrote: »

I'm open to corrections, but: trade unions protect the interests of their members, that is, among others, they prevent non-members from accessing their jobs. While this may help with the "race to the bottom" issue, it also keep non-members into poverty. They are generally highly corrupt and essentially run by self serving individuals that are worse than politicians.

You are throwing all this out as tho it were fact, without anything to back it up.
Its just your opinion.

Cordell

If it makes you happy you can read all my posts as: In my opinion which is open to correction and may be wrong, because it's just an opinion as I'm not the keeper of facts: <post>

[Deleted User]

terrydel wrote: »

I'd prefer if we were far more socialist as a society, especially in terms of removing the power of the church from our system of education. It is an absolute scandal that they still own and operate such a large % of that education system after the crimes they committed and facilitated.

I received both Church and State education. The church education was excellent, and they didn't do anything to anyone while I was there. I don't particularly like this blanket criticism of the Church. They've done a lot of good in this country over the years.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm essentially anti-religion, but, in terms of education, they're not terribly bad in comparison to state education. In fact, in some ways, they're superior. Really depends on the particular institution and how it's operated.

And it always staggers me how little Irish people seem bothered by the fact that the banks did what they did and handed us and the next few generations the bill and walked away essentially unpunished. We just dont seem as a people to care about that at all.

Short attention spans, and being more concerned with immediate problems. I remember the outrage after the banking crash. I genuinely thought for a few months that we might see people march on Dublin to burn out the politicians. Nothing came of it. That was the end of my hope for real change in this country.

Our facilitation of corporate tax avoidance on a grand scale is perhaps the thing that bothers me most about our neoliberal economy, it is beyond a joke at this stage. Its almost like they are laughing in our faces with it, especially as the latest recipients are instututional property investors right at a time when we have the biggest housing crisis in the history of the state.

I tend to laugh when people criticise China for it's corrupt society, because from what I've seen in four decades, is similar corruption in western countries by officials. Western countries just hide it better.

Totally agree on the reset button, our political system is it entirely self-serving, existing only to ensure the status quo and give us the illusion of having a choice. The entire public service is unaccountable, the maurice mccabe scandal has proved that beyond doubt, Francis Fitzgerald actually got monetarily rewarded for her role in it!

Yup. The American model is to be lauded and copied as much as possible. While everyone seems bent on criticizing Trump, it's worth considering how much the personal net worth of Clinton, Bush, Obama increased while they were in office... Trump entered with Billions already and seems less interested in being bribed. He's still a muppet, but probably a reasonably honest muppet, in comparison to past presidents.

terrydel

Cordell wrote: »

If it makes you happy you can read all my posts as: In my opinion which is open to correction and may be wrong, because it's just an opinion as I'm not the keeper of facts: <post>

I was already doing that.

terrydel

Deleted User wrote: »

I received both Church and State education. The church education was excellent, and they didn't do anything to anyone while I was there. I don't particularly like this blanket criticism of the Church. They've done a lot of good in this country over the years.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm essentially anti-religion, but, in terms of education, they're not terribly bad in comparison to state education. In fact, in some ways, they're superior. Really depends on the particular institution and how it's operated.

Short attention spans, and being more concerned with immediate problems. I remember the outrage after the banking crash. I genuinely thought for a few months that we might see people march on Dublin to burn out the politicians. Nothing came of it. That was the end of my hope for real change in this country.

I tend to laugh when people criticise China for it's corrupt society, because from what I've seen in four decades, is similar corruption in western countries by officials. Western countries just hide it better.

Yup. The American model is to be lauded and copied as much as possible. While everyone seems bent on criticizing Trump, it's worth considering how much the personal net worth of Clinton, Bush, Obama increased while they were in office... Trump entered with Billions already and seems less interested in being bribed. He's still a muppet, but probably a reasonably honest muppet, in comparison to past presidents.

Its certainly not blanket criticism on my part, I have no interest in organised religion but each to their own is my view, whatever gets you thru the day.
I just strongly feel that the level of abuse they committed and facilitated and then covered up and have so far refused to properly compensate for, was serious enough that they should have been removed from any role in education.

[Deleted User]

terrydel wrote: »

Its certainly not blanket criticism on my part, I have no interest in organised religion but each to their own is my view, whatever gets you thru the day.
I just strongly feel that the level of abuse they committed and facilitated and then covered up and have so far refused to properly compensate for, was serious enough that they should have been removed from any role in education.

I have a cousin who is a teacher within the Marist Brothers. A gentle soul who wouldn't hurt a fly. Loved by all his students and has received gifts from his community for his dedication. He doesn't deserve to be punished for the actions of others. And his students don't deserve to lose a good and experienced teacher, especially when so many new teachers aren't particularly good at their jobs.

The catholic church is a club. They look after their own. I'm not excusing their behavior in hiding the behavior of those who did such crimes, but... then, I don't particularly appreciate how society allows proven pedophiles to get away lightly for their crimes. I'm not interested in a witch hunt based on unstable foundations, nor am I interested in punishing the innocent for the actions of the guilty.

Deal with those who performed the crimes, and those proven to have protected them. Leave the rest of the Church to fulfill it's role within society. I doubt the Church or those newly joined will be so tolerant or protective of those who commit such behavior in the future.

realitykeeper

Edgware wrote: »

Well he did run the moneylenders out of the temple in Jerusalem

And he said in a parable that the workers in the vineyard should honour the agreement they made with their employer.

the beer revolu

realitykeeper wrote: »

Well none of us are perfect.

So, no further explanation as to how the two points are in any way connected?

ILoveYourVibes

Were all socialists spoilt as children?

Its usually the opposite.

Junkyard Tom

Funnily enough socialism, as it was applied in the former eastern bloc countries, allowed little room 'spoilt children' as everyone had to work and most of the employment was grafting in agriculture and industry.

Full employment is a feature of socialism whereas capitalism accommodates spoiled-bratness for privileged children, which, combined with the welfare state, can accommodate reduced-work lifestyles.

Summary: OP is spouting shite.

ILoveYourVibes

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Funnily enough socialism, as it was applied in the former eastern bloc countries, allowed little room 'spoilt children' as everyone had to work and most of the employment was grafting in agriculture and industry.

Full employment is a feature of socialism whereas capitalism accommodates spoiled-bratness for privileged children, which, combined with the welfare state, can accommodate reduced-work lifestyles.

Summary: OP is spouting shite.

Well what you say about eastern Europe is correct. However i notice its mostly growing up knowing what it is to worry about a medical bill for someone you love or knowing decent people struggle or what it is to do without makes you want there to be a basic standard of living for all.

Better Than Christ

Is there a negative reason why people who hold views that differ from mine would hold views that differ from mine?

Why yes, yes there is. Well, fancy that.

ToddyDoody

This wouldn't be one of those provocative threads now would it?

ILoveYourVibes

ToddyDoody wrote: »

This wouldn't be one of those provocative threads now would it?

I like these threads. I am glad the op made it.

I like you op. You're ok. I don't agree with you ...but you're ok .:)

Edgware

realitykeeper wrote: »

And he said in a parable that the workers in the vineyard should honour the agreement they made with their employer.

Luke 10.7

topper75

Cienciano wrote: »

... socialist system like they have in the Nordic countries ...

Mere dabblers. Dilettantes the lot of them as far as socialism is concerned.
They didn't nationalise their banks like the Irish did.

milehip

Day Lewin wrote: »

Was reared a socialist. In fact my Da always claimed to be a Communist. In that most painful of environments, middle-class poverty.

Surrounded by mé-féiners and ex-rural gombeenmen, he was scrupulous about social justice and completely devoid of snobbery.

The complete opposite of "spoilt"

OP, what are you on about?

How is 'middle-class poverty' more painful than the poverty suffered by any of the other classes?

Edgware

milehip wrote: »

How is 'middle-class poverty' more painful than the poverty suffered by any of the other classes?

Its gives you street cred like Rich Boy Barrett and Kermit Murphy. You can whinge about being able to afford piano lessons only up to Grade 6

realitykeeper

Edgware wrote: »

Luke 10.7

I agree which is why I think the minimum wage should be abolished and market forces ought to be the sole determinant of the worth of labour.

PostWoke

Socialists are morons who can't differentiate between the free market/ capitalism and runaway capitalism.

realitykeeper wrote: »

I agree which is why I think the minimum wage should be abolished and market forces ought to be the sole determinant of the worth of labour.

U mot m8

Uhhh, do go on... what do you think are the ramifications of this?

Timberrrrrrrr

realitykeeper wrote: »

I agree which is why I think the minimum wage should be abolished and market forces ought to be the sole determinant of the worth of labour.

Will you say that when you are earning €5.00 an hour?

PostWoke

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Summary: OP is spouting shite.

No he isn't, it's just the ones crying for it today have no clue what they're really on about.

Wibbs

I was with you up to these parts:

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to laugh when people criticise China for it's corrupt society, because from what I've seen in four decades, is similar corruption in western countries by officials. Western countries just hide it better.

Western nations have a long way to go, some more than others, but China is a totalitarian state where any criticism is stamped on, where surveillance of the citizenry is off the charts and in the open and getting worse year on year.

Yup. The American model is to be lauded and copied as much as possible.

Good Christ no. The American political model, at state and federal level anyway is beyond dodgy. It has morphed into essentially a one party system with little to tell the main players apart, where lobbying by vested interests is endemic and the only time the Little Man has any sway is on the pages of a Hollywood script. Trump the "billionaire"? If he had just taken the millions he was left by his father and invested them halfway wisely he'd be richer than he is today and his record of business is the American Dream alright... I would agree though that while he is a posturing fcuknugget, so were most of their presidents in the last 60 years, but at least he's blindingly obvious a one. So he's "honest" in that sense.

Wanderer78

realitykeeper wrote:

I agree which is why I think the minimum wage should be abolished and market forces ought to be the sole determinant of the worth of labour.

Neoclassical theory has long been debunked, it has no resemblance to our reality, humans are not rational beings, as depicted by the statement, 'rational expectations', 'equilibriums', well that's just another economic myth, and no, our world does not work in neath linearities. Our economic systems are a perfect example of 'dynamic complex systems', so you might as well chuck your market forces in the bin

[Deleted User]

Wibbs wrote: »

I was with you up to these parts:

Western nations have a long way to go, some more than others, but China is a totalitarian state where any criticism is stamped on, where surveillance of the citizenry is off the charts and in the open and getting worse year on year.

I meant it in relation to corruption. Not their other activities.