Everest

Dante7 · 23-05-2019 8:20pm

Crusty Jocks wrote: »

Just as a by the way for anyone that reads it, the book Into Thin Air is a very good read but the events of what exactly happened as described by Krakauer are highly disputed by a lot of people that were there and he seriously sullied some of the most skilled climbers that were there, particularly Anatoli Boukreev.

Krakauer does a very good job describing what happens to the body at those altitudes and the general journey to the summit itself, but as for what exactly happened a lot of it is disputed. Krakauer is a highly skilled and accomplished mountaineer himself and was when he went but had no extreme high altitude experience so what he details in the book as to what happened at those heights can't be taken as fact. He even had to include an apology in later editions and edit as his first edition has errors as to what occurred.

For anyone thats interested in a book that describes an Everest summit bid just as a regular client this book by an Irish guy is excellent:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ascent-Into-Hell-Fergus-White/dp/1973422719/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fergus+white&qid=1558626282&s=gateway&sr=8-1

He wasn't much more accomplished than Shay Lawless and just like him was relatively new to mountaineering, possibly less so but did have that vital extreme high altitude experience. I do know him, but the reviews will speak for themselves. And he makes pittance off the book by the way.

Bought that book earlier on your recommendation. Kindle version is only £1.99. I'm a few chapters in and it's excellent. Definitely recommended.

Ultimate Seduction · 23-05-2019 8:21pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

I was on a climb once, and the night after we summited and started back down again we were all sitting in a tent having dinner, and one of the lads was telling us about the pack of wild dogs he seen passing us on the trail.

Never said anything at the time because he knew it was bat**** crazy, there wasn't even grass there never mind any wildlife, but it seems that he absolutely, vividly could see dogs running around 20 feet away.

Altitude is not normal, not at all. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary myself, no visions or mirages. Not unless I imagined the toughest 10 hours I have ever experienced in my life.

It's easy, don't the Sherpas just carry you up and cook you Sunday roast while you relax..

jasper100 · 23-05-2019 8:38pm

They should have a priority lane for those who can afford it. $5K to skip the queue and a 5% improved survival rate.

jasper100 · 23-05-2019 8:40pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

It's easy, don't the Sherpas just carry you up and cook you Sunday roast while you relax..

Pretty much.

Our cooks are regarded as the best in the business, providing wholesome and appetising meals with an agreeable array of menus to suit all your food requirements. The meals you are served on the mountain are also of the highest standard and designed to sustain you for the rigours of the ascent. For those with specific needs - we can cater to special dietary requirements.

Kazzehh · 23-05-2019 9:04pm

For anyone looking for a little perspective on the motivation and thought processes of dedicated climbers - Free solo is starting on channel 4 now.

tuxy · 23-05-2019 9:06pm

Kazzehh wrote: »

For anyone looking for a little perspective on the motivation and thought processes of dedicated climbers - Free solo is starting on channel 4 now.

That's a very different type of climbing but is worth watching.

screamer · 23-05-2019 9:22pm

It’s sad to think this guy had a picture on his wall for most of his life, now he’ll be the picture on the wall for all of his kids lives.

Priorities people, priorities

Road-Hog · 23-05-2019 9:35pm

jasper100 wrote: »

Pretty much.

Our cooks are regarded as the best in the business, providing wholesome and appetising meals with an agreeable array of menus to suit all your food requirements. The meals you are served on the mountain are also of the highest standard and designed to sustain you for the rigours of the ascent. For those with specific needs - we can cater to special dietary requirements.

Would love to know where one takes a dump or a no. 1.....during the 12 hours or more ‘push for the summit’......does some poor Sherpa have the task of holding a bucket and wiping rears followed by transporting the vile collection back down the mountain.....there are hardly port a loos / chemical toilets along the route.....?

Effects · 23-05-2019 9:39pm

arctictree wrote: »

Fascinating stuff. Why can't you just use a full breathing apparatus like divers use, then you could breath normal air all the way to the top?

screamer · 23-05-2019 9:39pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Would love to know where one takes a dump or a no. 1.....during the 12 hours or more ‘push for the summit’......does some poor Sherpa have the task of holding a bucket and wiping rears followed by transporting the vile collection back down the mountain.....there are hardly port a loos / chemical toilets along the route.....?

Did I read a Sherpa has to bring it down in a barrel, course it’d be frozen solid, which reminds me of the explorer many years ago, who dug his way out of an avalanche with, you guessed it his frozen poop... Freuchen that was his name

jam_mac_jam · 23-05-2019 9:40pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

jasper100 wrote: »

Pretty much.

Our cooks are regarded as the best in the business, providing wholesome and appetising meals with an agreeable array of menus to suit all your food requirements. The meals you are served on the mountain are also of the highest standard and designed to sustain you for the rigours of the ascent. For those with specific needs - we can cater to special dietary requirements.

Would love to know where one takes a dump or a no. 1.....during the 12 hours or more ‘push for the summit’......does some poor Sherpa have the task of holding a bucket and wiping rears followed by transporting the vile collection back down the mountain.....there are hardly port a loos / chemical toilets along the route.....?

No most of it is not brought down. Disgustingly enough

tuxy · 23-05-2019 9:42pm

screamer wrote: »

Did I read a Sherpa has to bring it down in a barrel, course it’d be frozen solid, which reminds me of the explorer many years ago, who dug his way out of an avalanche with, you guessed it his frozen poop

screamer · 23-05-2019 9:43pm

tuxy wrote: »

That’s a sh!t job

jam_mac_jam · 23-05-2019 9:44pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/03/decades-of-human-waste-have-made-mount-everest-a-fecal-time-bomb/?utm_term=.626fdba001fa

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-05-2019 9:49pm

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

You sound like a man with a chip on your shoulder! Mustn't have got the funds to climb everest is it? Jealousy?

Aside from that, this thread has opened my eyes to everest and how it works, really fascinating stories shared, thanks to all. Unfortunate what happened to bring this here, but that is the risk of mountaineering.

For those criticising, I totally understand what you are saying re having a pregnant wife but it is also a once in a lifetime thing, she may have told him go and do it, you don't know the circumstances. I note the criticism is no way as high for the Irish girl with 4 young kids who wanted to go back up?!?!

There has been some criticism of her on this thread but naturally there won’t be as much because she is still alive. That fact alone would mean less attention is drawn to her. A lot of people probably even don’t know who was on the expedition with him. And I reeeeally hope this isn’t some tedious gender wars BS.

I think she was as crazy as him to go off with four dependents at home.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-05-2019 10:25pm

redmgar wrote: »

It really comes across as "I would climb Everest tomorrow, only its for kids" begrudgery, in reality they would struggle up the Sugarloaf.

A pub bore, who is an expert in everything such as government funding, mountain climbing and tax due on charity donations. The faux concern for the wife and kids of Lawless and the family of the Sherpas masking a bitterness of people who actually get up off their couch to try something.

The only one coming across bitter is you, tbh.

I’d say many people in this thread have achieved things you can only imagine. Scaling Everest is just one thing people can do.

And I am genuinely interested in the welfare of Sherpa.

Ultimate Seduction · 23-05-2019 10:26pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

There has been some criticism of her on this thread but naturally there won’t be as much because she is still alive. That fact alone would mean less attention is drawn to her. A lot of people probably even don’t know who was on the expedition with him. And I reeeeally hope this isn’t some tedious gender wars BS.

I think she was as crazy as him to go off with four dependents at home.

She's a bellend

Dante7 · 23-05-2019 10:34pm

Good vlog of an official Chinese team summiting in 2016.

https://youtu.be/ZeSqJK2Rais

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-05-2019 10:34pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I don't know if you need to climb Everest to get off the couch though. So I don't really think you can generalise that everyone who objects to what happens on Everest is a couch potato any more than everyone who climbs it is a wonderful hero living their best life.

Although I do agree with you to a certain extent, people hear or read that Everest is relatively easy in a climbing sense, this is compared to Annapurna or K2 and does not mean its easy. Sherpas don't carry you up the mountain its not a tour or a walk, of course its an impressive feat to do so.

However, a lot of people would argue its not worth your life, especially if you have kids. I am the first to admit I couldn't do it, I do admire the people who do it but there are huge problems with the number of people, the treatment of Sherpas and the rubbish. I got quite sick and 4000m so I wouldn't be able for base camp frankly, not a chance I would make it.

Its not black and white.

Some Sherpas will be saddled with slowpokes though, keeping them in the death zone longer.

simo28 · 23-05-2019 10:35pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/congestion-mount-everest-backlog-climbers-death-zone

check out the picture

igCorcaigh · 23-05-2019 10:37pm

simo28 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/congestion-mount-everest-backlog-climbers-death-zone

check out the picture

Feck, that's mental.

Snow Garden · 23-05-2019 10:42pm

josip wrote: »

Funny you mention the spliffs.
One day I went up the Nameless Fangs from Gokyo, there was only 1 other guy doing it the same day.
He offered me some hash at the top also, but I'd had a bad reaction from a pipe a few weeks earlier between Jiri and Lukla.

In Chile when trekking many folks would chew coca leaves to help with the altitude sickness. I put a few leaves in chewing gum and chewed away happily - not sure if it helped but I didn't suffer too bad from altitude, got lightheaded a few times but nothing serious. We got to 5,300m. Slow and steady.

kurtainsider · 23-05-2019 10:43pm

jasper100 wrote: »

They should have a priority lane for those who can afford it. $5K to skip the queue and a 5% improved survival rate.

In a way it's a bit like Ryanair alright. You can pay an extra tenner or whatever for priority boarding that entitles you to stand in the stairwell for an extra 30 minutes while the plebs who cant afford the privilege have to wait in the bar having another pint.

Bigbagofcans · 23-05-2019 10:43pm

simo28 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/congestion-mount-everest-backlog-climbers-death-zone

check out the picture

"..the deaths of all three had been linked to the lengthy queues above 8,000 metres (26,200 ft) – known as the Death Zone."

If that photo didn't scare me enough then that sentence did. Sounds like absolute hell.

jasper100 · 23-05-2019 10:43pm

simo28 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/congestion-mount-everest-backlog-climbers-death-zone

check out the picture

3 of them died!!!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 23-05-2019 10:52pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

She's a bellend

Just wanna say, I never called anyone a bellend, that was another forum member, so I hope this isn’t a jab!

Snow Garden · 23-05-2019 10:53pm

Check out an interesting Spanish climber called Alex Txikon. He seems to have a death wish in trying to summit Everest in winter without supplemental Oxygen, He has already failed 2 attempts on Everest but at least lived to tell the tale. He is now looking at doing K2 in winter. Madness really.

https://www.mountainiq.com/alex-txikon-winter-everest-attempt/

https://explorersweb.com/2019/04/11/alex-txikon-troubled-k2-winter-base-camp/

tuxy · 23-05-2019 10:53pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

"..the deaths of all three had been linked to the lengthy queues above 8,000 metres (26,200 ft) – known as the Death Zone."

If that photo didn't scare me enough then that sentence did. Sounds like absolute hell.

Long queues reported below the balcony also. Was a recovery mission ever a possibility in those conditions?

irishgeo · 23-05-2019 10:53pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

"..the deaths of all three had been linked to the lengthy queues above 8,000 metres (26,200 ft) – known as the Death Zone."

If that photo didn't scare me enough then that sentence did. Sounds like absolute hell.

how do you get down passed the line of people trying to get up?

bucketybuck · 23-05-2019 10:57pm

Saw this short report linked on youtube today, it focuses mainly on the role of the Sherpas and the dangers they are forced to face, and also touches on the dangers of rescues from the mountain. Worth a watch for some of the videos alone, like that of an avalanche about to hit base camp or what a frozen body actually moves like.

jasper100 · 23-05-2019 11:00pm

irishgeo wrote: »

how do you get down passed the line of people trying to get up?

Traffic lights!

jasper100 · 23-05-2019 11:03pm

Kazzehh wrote: »

For anyone looking for a little perspective on the motivation and thought processes of dedicated climbers - Free solo is starting on channel 4 now.

Some talent. Not one of the bellends climbing everest today would have the ability to even think about doing it.

Shows what climbing everest has become.

tuxy · 23-05-2019 11:06pm

irishgeo wrote: »

how do you get down passed the line of people trying to get up?

I don't know how it's done but I do know it requires a very dangerous 2 or 3 hour wait at the moment.

Dante7 · 23-05-2019 11:09pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Good vlog of an official Chinese team summiting in 2016.

https://youtu.be/ZeSqJK2Rais

The great thing about this video is that it is pure video of the expedition. It's not interspersed with made up video with a voiceover. It is a proper recording of an ascent.

josip · 23-05-2019 11:15pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Check out an interesting Spanish climber called Alex Txikon. He seems to have a death wish in trying to summit Everest in winter without supplemental Oxygen, He has already failed 2 attempts on Everest but at least lived to tell the tale. He is now looking at doing K2 in winter. Madness really.

https://www.mountainiq.com/alex-txikon-winter-everest-attempt/

https://explorersweb.com/2019/04/11/alex-txikon-troubled-k2-winter-base-camp/

Reminds me of these hardy lads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBX25ix4eU&t=3s

castletownman · 23-05-2019 11:19pm

Looking at the picture of the queue is insane, but could they not make camp below the death zone (the name alone would deter me no end), and make the descent in due course, or is the window of opportunity so small that the side-effect of potential death was something you had to take?

And to think, I was despondent queuing for over an hour to get on the ferry to Ellis Island

SusieBlue · 23-05-2019 11:27pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Saw this short report linked on youtube today, it focuses mainly on the role of the Sherpas and the dangers they are forced to face, and also touches on the dangers of rescues from the mountain. Worth a watch for some of the videos alone, like that of an avalanche about to hit base camp or what a frozen body actually moves like.

Felt very sorry for that poor young Sherpa who nearly died & lost all his fingers because his client was too arrogant to take his advice and abandon the climb when things went wrong.

He should have left the dumbass up there on his own for having such blatent disregard for not only his own life, but someone else’s. It’s just so ignorant and unjustifiable.

Comhrá · 23-05-2019 11:28pm

castletownman wrote: »

Looking at the picture of the queue is insane, but could they not make camp below the death zone (the name alone would deter me no end), and make the descent in due course, or is the window of opportunity so small that the side-effect of potential death was something you had to take?

And to think, I was despondent queuing for over an hour to get on the ferry to Ellis Island

I believe you must be on the summit not later than 2pm in order to make it safely back to Camp 4 before nightfall. Also the amount of time spent in the Death Zone (above 8,000m.) is limited so those two criteria must be adhered to, ruling out any long waiting around for the summit bid.

bucketybuck · 23-05-2019 11:31pm

castletownman wrote: »

Looking at the picture of the queue is insane, but could they not make camp below the death zone (the name alone would deter me no end), and make the descent in due course, or is the window of opportunity so small that the side-effect of potential death was something you had to take?

If you are talking about descending, then when it comes to altitude sickness then you really need to get down as far as you can as quick as you can, to get back into thicker air and stop depriving yourself of oxygen.

Just below the death zone (not that there is a defined death zone of course) is still at a very high altitude, its still only 30% oxygen in the air. Base camp might only be 50% and the other camps less than that, but they are still better than hanging about just outside the death zone.

People have still died despite making it back to camp 4, camping higher than that after a summit would be just asking for trouble, and thats without getting into the other dangers such as bad weather or problems with supply.

tuxy · 23-05-2019 11:34pm

castletownman wrote: »

Looking at the picture of the queue is insane, but could they not make camp below the death zone

More and more permits been sold by Nepal, a very poor country. China is much more strict about permits since they are not reliant on money made for permits.
Even in May which is the best month to climb you only get a few days where weather is favourable.
Large numbers just end up at Hillarys step at the same time as it's a narrow bottleneck.

tuxy · 23-05-2019 11:38pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just below the death zone (not that there is a defined death zone of course) is still at a very high altitude, its still only 30% oxygen in the air. Base camp might only be 50% and the other camps less than that, but they are still better than hanging about just outside the death zone.

People have still died despite making it back to camp 4, camping higher than that after a summit would be just asking for trouble, and thats without getting into the other dangers such as bad weather or problems with supply.

Making it back to camp 2 means there is a good chance of helicopter evacuation in case of an emergency and this is the kind of thing insurance can cover.

holliehobbie · 23-05-2019 11:39pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Felt very sorry for that poor young Sherpa who nearly died & lost all his fingers because his client was too arrogant to take his advice and abandon the climb when things went wrong.

He should have left the dumbass up there on his own for having such blatent disregard for not only his own life, but someone else’s. It’s just so ignorant and unjustifiable.

At least the American doctor has a conscience. It really is all about people's egos and money now though very sadly for the Sherpas.

Wildlife Actor · 23-05-2019 11:40pm

josip wrote: »

Reminds me of these hardy lads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBX25ix4eU&t=3s

Wow. That's the business end of super alpinism and a great short film. Gasherbrum II in winter with no O2, no sherpa support, no fixed ropes, avalanched on the way down, and they just get in with it. Less than 2% of everest summits match that for style. But most of our heroes on Everest have no interest in any of that because they'd get a blank look if they went boasting about Gasherbrum in the pub.

PhoenixParker · 23-05-2019 11:42pm

castletownman wrote: »

Looking at the picture of the queue is insane, but could they not make camp below the death zone (the name alone would deter me no end), and make the descent in due course, or is the window of opportunity so small that the side-effect of potential death was something you had to take?

And to think, I was despondent queuing for over an hour to get on the ferry to Ellis Island

There's a limited number of weeks every year when Everest is climbable and within those weeks there's a limited number of days with appropriate weather conditions.

Some years there are more climbable days then others. This year the weather has been bad and everything has got started weeks later than usual and even after starting (the route being fixed) the weather has been bad. The result is everyone who has a permit this year is trying to get to the summit on very few days.

It's a lethally dangerous and crazy situation.

bucketybuck · 23-05-2019 11:44pm

Its almost a shame that there isn't really a proper technical climb somewhere on the ascent, one that requires more than just dragging yourself forward on a rope. Even one difficult vertical climb would immediately filter out a substantial number of those making the attempt.

blackwhite · 24-05-2019 12:02am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its almost a shame that there isn't really a proper technical climb somewhere on the ascent, one that requires more than just dragging yourself forward on a rope. Even one difficult vertical climb would immediately filter out a substantial number of those making the attempt.

Northern ridge had that with the 2nd Step. Until the Chinese decided to stick a ladder on it in the 70s!

Woodsie1 · 24-05-2019 12:04am

Dante7 wrote: »

Good vlog of an official Chinese team summiting in 2016.

https://youtu.be/ZeSqJK2Rais

Just watched that vlog,really good.

Did anyone spot the Chinese lad smoking at 7000m and 7350m:pac:...hard as nails that lad, must have some lungs.

Effects · 24-05-2019 12:14am

jasper100 wrote: »

Some talent. Not one of the bellends climbing everest today would have the ability to even think about doing it.

Shows what climbing everest has become.

But Alex is one of a kind and what he does is also really, really risky

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 24-05-2019 12:19am

SusieBlue wrote: »

Felt very sorry for that poor young Sherpa who nearly died & lost all his fingers because his client was too arrogant to take his advice and abandon the climb when things went wrong.

He should have left the dumbass up there on his own for having such blatent disregard for not only his own life, but someone else’s. It’s just so ignorant and unjustifiable.

I’m still thinking about that. That poor lad. He basically implied that had he descended without his client, his days with the expedition company would be numbered. That selfish client needlessly cost a man his fingers and almost his life. Who could live with themselves if they did that? There is no justification.

gozunda · 24-05-2019 12:23am

As to the need for supplemental oxygen.

This from an account of David Sharpe who died on Everest

Using supplementary oxygen, with a mask connected to a tank of oxygen, at high altitudes only partially compensates for the thin air, and the only way that climbers experiencing the effects of altitude sickness can recover is to descend much lower as quickly as possible with supplementary oxygen. Above about 6,000 m (19,685 ft) is considered to be uninhabitable for any period of time as, physiologically, the human body is unable to survive such hypoxic conditions, much less adapt to them.

Even local climbers from the area around Everest who assist expeditions, referred to as Sherpas, and who are more acclimatized to higher altitudes, use supplementary oxygen at higher altitudes. Many climbers lose their lives due to the debilitating effects of very limited oxygen at high altitudes, and because the rescue of someone who is not mobile at high altitudes is extremely difficult and potentially fatal for both the rescuer and the climber.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sharp_(mountaineer)

Climbers are advised to stay only a minimal amount of time above 8000 metres. Queues like that seen in the photo posted earlier means that there are significant delays and climbers end up spending too long in an high altitude / low oxygen environment and risk their lives in doing so.

Everest

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