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14-09-2018, 22:30   #2116
amcalester
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If Go-Ahead can't run the routes when they're supposed to, then that's their issue. In my eyes DB have nothing to do with it once the handover date is reached.
Continuity of service is more important than the egos of a few DB workers.

Extending existing contracts during handover periods is fairly standard during tenders of this size, it’ll work both ways when/if DB win routes back from the competition.
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14-09-2018, 22:31   #2117
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It's not out of the goodness of their hearts though, they're getting paid for it! For doing their jobs!


By your logic, Dublin Bus drivers should immediately stop working any of the routes which are being transferred to GoAhead.
It's the ingrained culture. Over time DB drivers have been conditioned to think that their role is something more than to show up at the appointed time and drive the bus they are told to drive for which they will be paid. That's it, that's their job. The background noise has absolutely nothing to do with them, they serve one function, drive the bloody bus.

Operators like Goahead will drive down terms and conditions and bring the job back to what it actually is. That can only be a positive step but is a big lump to take for a cohort of employees who have been wrapped in a blanket of cotton wool to think that the things they try to get involved in are any of their business.

No private operator would accept employee expectation like those at DB. The NTA know it can never be changed and have taken the second best step by leaving them in a corner to fight among themselves while operators and employees living in the real world get on with transporting the commuters of the city.
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14-09-2018, 22:45   #2118
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I'm nearly sure the poster that was just on here is a re reg account. IIRC he/she was predicting that there would be widespread discontent when the new 145 bill was introduced it never materialised. I take any information from that account or any account that appears to be linked to it with a pinch of salt.
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14-09-2018, 22:48   #2119
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I'm sure the poster that was just on here is a re reg account. IIRC he/she was predicting that there would be widespread discontent when the new 145 bill was introduced it never materialised. I take any information from that account or any account that appears to be linked to it with a pinch of salt.
Yes a regular re-reg who only signs up to stir things up. I've deleted all their posts and any quoting them
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15-09-2018, 01:26   #2120
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It's the ingrained culture.
there is no such culture.

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Over time DB drivers have been conditioned to think that their role is something more than to show up at the appointed time and drive the bus they are told to drive for which they will be paid. That's it, that's their job. The background noise has absolutely nothing to do with them, they serve one function, drive the bloody bus.
they have been conditioned to believe no such thing. it's people like some on here who are expecting them to be more then what they are. the drivers simply want to get on with driving the bus. and that is what they are doing.

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Operators like Goahead will drive down terms and conditions and bring the job back to what it actually is.
dublin bus already have the job at what it is, and the terms and conditions needed to insure that the job can be a viable long term career


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That can only be a positive step but is a big lump to take for a cohort of employees who have been wrapped in a blanket of cotton wool to think that the things they try to get involved in are any of their business.
in my experience, it's a positive step for those who believe either, people they see as beneeth them, or people who they think they should be getting more then, should not be on a good wage. there are no employees in dublin bus who are, or have been wrapped in a blanket of cotton wool, and no employees think that the things they try to get involved in are any of their business, they know that it's their business, because it is their business, as it potentially effects them.

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No private operator would accept employee expectation like those at DB.
they will, and they are going to.

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The NTA know it can never be changed and have taken the second best step by leaving them in a corner to fight among themselves while operators and employees living in the real world get on with transporting the commuters of the city.
dublin bus and it's employees live in the real world. the terms and conditions hard faught for by the employees of that company are not the NTA'S business or concern. unless you are going to tell me that driving down terms and conditions is possibly one of the aspects of what this tendering is about? which if so, my opinion is certainly that may be one possibility. however, it's not going to succeed on that score, because similar to dublin bus terms and conditions will be coming to any of the other tendered operators who may replace dublin bus on routes. if not now, then certainly down the line.

Last edited by end of the road; 15-09-2018 at 01:29.
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15-09-2018, 18:11   #2121
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In all fairness, the DB drivers have a point. I wouldn't accept a drop in my wages for doing the same job, why should anyone else?

Plus I can't see DB drivers driving GA buses, it's a legal minefield.
There is no cold hard evidence that they will be getting a drop in pay. No DB drivers have to switch over to GA and even if they did TUPE would more than likely mean they would still be getting the same wages and terms and conditions.

It appears to me that the NBRU are taking their anti GAI stance for ideological reasons rather then looking at the bigger picture and looking out for their members terms and conditions. I'm not a big SIPTU fan but it appears they are taking a more progressive approach to Bus Connects and Go-Ahead.
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15-09-2018, 19:06   #2122
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Tupe only works for a year.

New contracts after this.
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15-09-2018, 19:09   #2123
amcalester
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Tupe only works for a year.

New contracts after this.
That’s not true.

Contracts can be improved after 1 year, not made worse.
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15-09-2018, 19:11   #2124
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That’s not true.
It is as that's the agreement.

Check it out if ya like but that's the stance that's been given out.
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15-09-2018, 19:13   #2125
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It is as that's the agreement.

Check it out if ya like but that's the stance that's been given out.
That's coming from union by the way.
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15-09-2018, 19:13   #2126
amcalester
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It is as that's the agreement.

Check it out if ya like but that's the stance that's been given out.
I hit submit to soon.

Contracts can be renegotiated after 1 year but overall the new contract has to an improvement on the old one, so it’s a non issue.
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15-09-2018, 19:28   #2127
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It is as that's the agreement.

Check it out if ya like but that's the stance that's been given out.
TUPE is a lot more complex and unions could should be allowed on board to work something out which does not make drivers wages, terms and conditions any worse it can be done.

The NBRU seem to be taking a stance of absolutely no tendering at all under any circumstances even if drivers wages, terms and conditions remain the same. My guess is as to the reason for this is either because of ideological reasons similar to their opposition to Bus Connects and siding with the likes of PBP or the threat to the union which this poses not workers rights but the threat to the unions future.

We have already seen that with Transdev and Go-Ahead both of whom have closed shop agreements with SIPTU. Any other future entrants will likely have similar agreements with a larger more comercially oriented union like SIPTU.
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15-09-2018, 19:32   #2128
amcalester
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TUPE is a lot more complex and unions could should be allowed on board to work something out which does not make drivers wages, terms and conditions any worse it can be done.

The NBRU seem to be taking a stance of absolutely no tendering at all under any circumstances even if drivers wages, terms and conditions remain the same. My guess is as to the reason for this is either because of ideological reasons similar to their opposition to Bus Connects and siding with the likes of PBP or the threat to the union which this poses not workers rights but the threat to the unions future.

We have already seen that with Transdev and Go-Ahead both of whom have closed shop agreements with SIPTU. Any other future entrants will likely have similar agreements with a larger more comercially oriented union like SIPTU.

I was thinking the same, NBRU are looking after their own interests here.

It could be that they prefer to deal with DB instead of a private operator.

Pure speculation on my part obviously.
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15-09-2018, 19:48   #2129
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Seems to be some mix up with tests started my first week and Iv a test next week but some there 6 weeks and have no date for one
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15-09-2018, 21:53   #2130
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Originally Posted by punisher5112 View Post
Tupe only works for a year.

New contracts after this.
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Originally Posted by punisher5112 View Post
It is as that's the agreement.

Check it out if ya like but that's the stance that's been given out.
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That's coming from union by the way.
TUPE absolutely does not last one year. If your union is stating that then they are talking complete rubbish, there is no time limit as I already stated previously here. TUPE protects all your terms and conditions (with the exception of pensions) for the entirety of your employment.

And that's coming from me, someone with 15 years experience in industrial relations/employment law who specialises in TUPE amongst other things.

Last edited by GM228; 16-09-2018 at 23:20.
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