Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright · 20-06-2019 5:21pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I think there's a bit of an overreaction to Fury's win over Schwarz. Ok he did well but Schwarz was grossly inferior to him. I don't see Fury beating Wilder in the rematch. I get the feeling if he gets tagged again he won't get up this time so easily. Wilder is constantly threatening with the knockout punch. Fury is the better boxer but its a shame he doesn't have the knockout ability.

Schwarz wasn't up to much but Fury did look great,

Fury "DOES" have the ability to stop you ,

He stopped Hammer who's gone the distance recently with Ortiz and Pulev ,
Wlad was afraid to trade after taking a few shots , He stopped Del boy ,

He looked weak in his first 3 comeback fights but that was due to the massive weight loss ,

Now I don't think he would stop Wilder simply because he'd be mad to plant his feet and go after the KO as one well timed shot form Wilder can KO anyone , but I do think Fury has the ability to KO anyone

Ultimate Seduction · 20-06-2019 5:29pm

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I think there's a bit of an overreaction to Fury's win over Schwarz. Ok he did well but Schwarz was grossly inferior to him. I don't see Fury beating Wilder in the rematch. I get the feeling if he gets tagged again he won't get up this time so easily. Wilder is constantly threatening with the knockout punch. Fury is the better boxer but its a shame he doesn't have the knockout ability.

Fury has 20 KOs in 29 fights.

Mantis Toboggan · 20-06-2019 5:55pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fury has 20 KOs in 29 fights.

Yeah but these wouldn't be one punch ko's, most of his ko's were from successive punches where the opponent wasn't protecting himself. Don't remember a fight where he had an opponent falling around a ring. Having said that he has the ability to stop wilder, especially later into the fight.

selectamatic · 20-06-2019 6:16pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He stopped Hammer who's gone the distance recently with Ortiz and Pulev ,
Wlad was afraid to trade after taking a few shots , He stopped Del boy.

Hammer wasn't ko'd though. His corner called it off after the 8th round.

Same for chisora in both fights he retired on his stool.

Fury is very good at giving slower and smaller HW's a sustained beating which saps their energy and confidence and makes any chance of winning as the fight progresses very slim however a KO puncher he is not.

Against the bigger or faster guys he's good at keeping out of harms way and doing enough from range to win round after round if his opposition isn't good/poactive enough.

fonecrusher1 · 20-06-2019 6:21pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fury has 20 KOs in 29 fights.

What I mean is knock out as in he connects with your chin and you stay down. Wilder style. Wilder knocks people clean out. Fury stops fighter through attrition.

Classic example of fighter stats being misleading.

yourdeadwright · 21-06-2019 11:13am

selectamatic wrote: »

Hammer wasn't ko'd though. His corner called it off after the 8th round.

Same for chisora in both fights he retired on his stool.

Fury is very good at giving slower and smaller HW's a sustained beating which saps their energy and confidence and makes any chance of winning as the fight progresses very slim however a KO puncher he is not.

Against the bigger or faster guys he's good at keeping out of harms way and doing enough from range to win round after round if his opposition isn't good/poactive enough.

KO or stoppage its all the same really, He still managed to stop guys who other top heavy weights struggled with ,

He stopped 8 out of 9 guys before the Wlad fight, Wlad was scared stiff to engage,

Since he come back he looked to have lost power which is understandable given the weight last, but last time out he did look to have the snap back ,

Fury can stop you but I think he took the clever route v Wilder as going toe to toe with him is asking to get ko'd

I do agree he is not a one punch power guy

selectamatic · 21-06-2019 1:09pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

KO or stoppage its all the same really, He still managed to stop guys who other top heavy weights struggled with ,

He stopped 8 out of 9 guys before the Wlad fight,

Well yes and no. The nature of the Hammer and chisora stoppages were corners telling their men they were facing a pointless uphill battle so they were as well quit. Both had lost basically every round and had also tired to the point that they weren't going to get a lucky KO.

If the fights were close neither of them would have been quitting on their stool.

But yes Fury absolutely does deserve credit for creating these situations that other HW's struggled to create.

squinn2912 · 21-06-2019 2:11pm

Not sure about some of these points should Wilder meet Fury again. Fury spoke a lot about a lack of match fitness going into that fight and I think he's got a point. He looked to be moving much better last week but granted there was little to no danger. Wilder looked a beaten man after that fight. He reminded me of Parker vs Hughie when it was called a draw. Disbelief. Against Breazeale he looked very hittable too. I think Fury wins that one with a bit to spare. Of course the KO threat is still there.

yourdeadwright · 21-06-2019 3:04pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not sure about some of these points should Wilder meet Fury again. Fury spoke a lot about a lack of match fitness going into that fight and I think he's got a point. He looked to be moving much better last week but granted there was little to no danger. Wilder looked a beaten man after that fight. He reminded me of Parker vs Hughie when it was called a draw. Disbelief. Against Breazeale he looked very hittable too. I think Fury wins that one with a bit to spare. Of course the KO threat is still there.

No question Fury is the better boxer and no surprise if he was to win but iv a sneaky feeling Wilder will catch him earlier this time and Ko him , I reckon Fury will be up on the cards when it happens,

I think its a toss of a coin because of the Wilder's punch power ,

Checkmate19 · 21-06-2019 11:31pm

I reckon Wilder will finish fury quick if they meet. He was to passive last time. He will go looking this time early i reckon.

Checkmate19 · 21-06-2019 11:54pm

Is it going to happen tough. The way heavyweight boxing is at the moment the dodging may end up we don't see fights. Pathetic stuff.

normanoffside · 23-06-2019 2:05pm

Usyk has triggered his WBO mandatory and will fight the winner of th AJ vs Ruiz rematch

nacho libre · 23-06-2019 9:45pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Usyk has triggered his WBO mandatory and will fight the winner of th AJ vs Ruiz rematch

Is he not going to have a warm up fight first?

normanoffside · 23-06-2019 10:04pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Is he not going to have a warm up fight first?

I'd imagine he is as he'll have to wait till after the rematch

Ultimate Seduction · 24-06-2019 12:42am

Usyk isn't that small. Plenty time for him to ate a bit of Spud. He would beat Joshua or ruiz I think.

Was Whyte not no 1 for last few months, harsh on him

Cyrus · 24-06-2019 6:56am

Whyte is wbc no 1 contender I think

yourdeadwright · 24-06-2019 10:09am

Cyrus wrote: »

Whyte is wbc no 1 contender I think

Your correct and after Wilder v Ortiz it'll be over 600 days as number 1 contender without a title fight, Crazy stuff,

Mantis Toboggan · 24-06-2019 10:11am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Your correct and after Wilder v Ortiz it'll be over 600 days as number 1 contender without a title fight, Crazy stuff,

Didn't he turn down some fights?

yourdeadwright · 24-06-2019 10:26am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Didn't he turn down some fights?

Ye he turned down the AJ fight due to being low balled but it's Wilder who has the WBC belt,

He is number 1 in WBC for that amount of time and has not been offered Wilder and is chasing it, .

I wouldn't be surprised if his own man Eddie is keeping him for getting the fight, He wants that fight for AJ not Whyte,

Miccoli · 24-06-2019 8:10pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Didn't he turn down some fights?

Turned down title shot vs Joshua aswell as 2 final eliminators vs pulev and ortiz in order to take the chisora rematch for bigger money which is fair enough but he has no one to blame bar himself for not having got a shot yet.

nacho libre · 24-06-2019 10:37pm

Rivas could well beat Whyte. He'll have to take those fights he avoided to build himself back up then. It could end up being a bad year for Eddie if Joshua then goes on to lose his rematch with Ruiz.

squinn2912 · 25-06-2019 12:00am

nacho libre wrote: »

Rivas could well beat Whyte. He'll have to take those fights he avoided to build himself back up then. It could end up being a bad year for Eddie if Joshua then goes on to lose his rematch with Ruiz.

It’s an interesting match up. I’m going to that fight. I personally think Whyte will be too big and ignorant for him

Morrison J · 25-06-2019 4:11pm

Miccoli wrote: »

Turned down title shot vs Joshua aswell as 2 final eliminators vs pulev and ortiz in order to take the chisora rematch for bigger money which is fair enough but he has no one to blame bar himself for not having got a shot yet.

Exactly. Can't understand why people have the violin out for Whyte.

He's beat a British level Lucas Browne, gone life and death with a European level Chisora twice and scraped by Parker who's nothing special at all. He's picked the easiest route possible and made a tonne of money on PPV in the process. Dunno why anyone would feel sorry for him. Needs to fight better opposition before he's granted a title shot. Usyk 100% is more deserving after unifying one of the toughest divisions in the sport.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 25-06-2019 7:58pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Made a tonne of money on PPV in the process.

This is part of the problem. Hes been carried along on AJs coat tails, being built by Hearn as a possible opponent for stadium fights down the line, and has lucked into a period where fans are willing to pay PPV money for mid level boxing. Good luck to him, but now he thinks hes a top draw and A level fighter so turns down fights that are "beneath him" financially.

yourdeadwright · 26-06-2019 10:34am

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

This is part of the problem. Hes been carried along on AJs coat tails, being built by Hearn as a possible opponent for stadium fights down the line, and has lucked into a period where fans are willing to pay PPV money for mid level boxing. Good luck to him, but now he thinks hes a top draw and A level fighter so turns down fights that are "beneath him" financially.

To be fair to him, he has totally changed his public imagine and cleaned up his act in front of the camera's in a bid to make more cash and it has worked for him

Reminds me a lot of Bellew who was also polished up by Eddie and changed his whole public imagine ,

The two lads are rough as F*ck but listened to Eddie and matchroom and went on to make more money than they could have dreamed of,

A huge part of them making that cash is picking the right fights to trick the public into thinking they are better boxer's and bigger star than they actually are.

I think we all see Whyte as a good gate keeper who mite pull off an upset set or two along the way ,

squinn2912 · 26-06-2019 11:17am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

To be fair to him, he has totally changed his public imagine and cleaned up his act in front of the camera's in a bid to make more cash and it has worked for him

Reminds me a lot of Bellew who was also polished up by Eddie and changed his whole public imagine ,

The two lads are rough as F*ck but listened to Eddie and matchroom and went on to make more money than they could have dreamed of,

A huge part of them making that cash is picking the right fights to trick the public into thinking they are better boxer's and bigger star than they actually are.

I think we all see Whyte as a good gate keeper who mite pull off an upset set or two along the way ,

Whyte is a bruiser who is making a lot of himself. Gatekeeper is the right term for him! Dave Allen got the ko vs a better Lucas Browne and look how long it took Whyte to finally make a job of him. Even Rivas is a pretty soft option for him. Small but good record. He’s not going in with Ortiz or pulev

nacho libre · 26-06-2019 5:52pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

It’s an interesting match up. I’m going to that fight. I personally think Whyte will be too big and ignorant for him

You maybe right he might get past him , but he is going to be exposed soon enough. If Parker fought him again, i think he'd win. Fury and Wilder will beat handily. Anyway I hope you get to see a good bout!

Checkmate19 · 27-06-2019 10:41pm

Imo Whyte is average. He's avoided eliminator's to take the PPV average fights. Chisora is a very average and i think he won the first fight against Whyte. Parker is another average fighter who could have won that fight. Whyte is a second tier fighter who on his day could cause an upset against the big boys. But he can only blame himself for not getting a shot against wilder as he's ducked the eliminator's.

squinn2912 · 09-07-2019 11:10pm

How do you guys see Price vs Allen going? Probably the match up I’m most looking forward to!

Cyrus · 10-07-2019 9:22am

papi de la overhand will take price out

Boxing.Fan · 10-07-2019 9:29am

Dillian Whyte claiming he "laid" Fury out in sparring.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/boxing/news/12183/11759790/dillian-whyte-says-he-laid-out-tyson-fury-in-sparring-session-as-war-of-words-intensifies

Johner · 10-07-2019 10:19am

squinn2912 wrote: »

How do you guys see Price vs Allen going? Probably the match up I’m most looking forward to!

I really can't see any other outcome other than an Allen KO. Price is just far too gun shy these days and I'd expect Allen to make it messy enough for the first few rounds. Allen is very tough and durable, has a decent chin and looks in great nick for once, add in Price's appalling stamina I think this is a stoppage in rounds 4-6 for Allen.

dougm1970 · 10-07-2019 12:27pm

if he lasts as far as round 6, at that stage price beats himself

Cyrus · 10-07-2019 12:30pm

gorman and dubois is interesting,

you would have to fancy gorman but who knows.

Deiseboy01 · 10-07-2019 1:47pm

Unless Allen get a sloppy and walks onto a big right hand I think he wears Price down around rounds 6 or 7.

I'm not confident in a Dubois victory but just about go for him. I think he'll be too big, strong and fit for Gorman but Gorman is the better boxer imo so I'm wavering on that prediction.

squinn2912 · 10-07-2019 1:47pm

Cyrus wrote: »

gorman and dubois is interesting,

you would have to fancy gorman but who knows.

Funny why do you say that? I’m rooting for Gorman but I think Dubois will have too much power for him

Cyrus · 10-07-2019 2:05pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Funny why do you say that? I’m rooting for Gorman but I think Dubois will have too much power for him

i feel, perhaps wrongly, that dubois is more hype than substance, and gorman is a proper step up for him. Gorman is a better boxer, but it will be interesting to see how the fight goes.

yourdeadwright · 10-07-2019 3:01pm

Even if Dubios loses this one ( I think he will) people need to remember he is just 21 years old,
He is still a baby , no where near his peak skill , wise, strength wise ,, cardio wise, ring savvy he has so much time to grow as a fighter ,

You have to give him and Gorman prop's for taking this fight so early , a lot of guys now want to go undefeated at an early age and don't take risk's

Joyce is 33
Chisora is 35
Whyte is 31
Fury is almost 31
AJ is 29
Wilder is 33

Dubios has a decade on them all bar AJ

normanoffside · 10-07-2019 3:57pm

I think Bryant will beat Joyce as he is mobile and quick. He just needs to avoid Joe's big swings.
I can also see Gorman outpointing Dubois.

ASOT · 10-07-2019 7:27pm

Joyce is the slowest heavyweight alive, will be backing Jennings myself

nacho libre · 10-07-2019 7:38pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Funny why do you say that? I’m rooting for Gorman but I think Dubois will have too much power for him

Usually the better boxer wins, and Gorman has a good chin. Had Dubois really got good power at the top level? According to a former opponent he doesn't.

normanoffside · 10-07-2019 9:34pm

Lion Killer wrote: »

Yes, I am picking Jennings to beat Joyce too. Although he is coming off a stoppage loss I do think he is a cut above Joyce.

Yeah, but he was doing very well against Rivas before getting stopped in the last round. I think he could possibly stop Joyce late if he can stick and move and avoid getting hit too much.
Don't think Joyce has massive one punch power but he can wear anyone down if he gets enough punches in a row in.

Deiseboy01 · 10-07-2019 9:40pm

My reason for siding with Joyce is a) his team are not going to put him a fight they don't think is heavily in his favour, b) his size, fitness and volume of punching will be too much for Jennings and c) Jennings doesn't have one punch power, not enough to keep Joyce off him.

selectamatic · 10-07-2019 11:58pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Usually the better boxer wins, and Gorman has a good chin. Had Dubois really got good power at the top level? According to a former opponent he doesn't.

Well he didn't knock a stir out of Johnson over 10 rounds anyways.

yourdeadwright · 11-07-2019 10:28am

nacho libre wrote: »

Usually the better boxer wins, and Gorman has a good chin. Had Dubois really got good power at the top level? According to a former opponent he doesn't.

I think Gorman wins but the bit on Dubios having no power is a bit silly,

He has stopped everyone but one opponent , that one opponent said his jab hurt more the Klitschko's and at the time of his fight Dubois was 20 Johnson was 38 and used all his year of wisdom to keep Dubios form landing any big shots ,

Dubois hasn't even matured as a man yet he will get plenty more power and his technic will also improve again adding to his KO power,

I'd confidently say power is the least of Dubios worries ,

yourdeadwright · 11-07-2019 10:31am

selectamatic wrote: »

Well he didn't knock a stir out of Johnson over 10 rounds anyways.

Johnson said he jabed harded than Klitschko and was glad he didn't land any big shots,

Remember Johnson was 38 and Dubios was 20 , Power wasn't the problem landing on a crafty veteran was,

I think Dubois will lose the weekend but let's give him a fair assessment

squinn2912 · 11-07-2019 12:11pm

I get it that Gorman is the more refined boxer but what has he done to suggest he will win?

Cyrus · 11-07-2019 12:50pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

I get it that Gorman is the more refined boxer but what has he done to suggest he will win?

thats the quandry you cant point to anything either of them have done,

this fight will tell a lot,

selectamatic · 11-07-2019 1:03pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Johnson said he jabed harded than Klitschko and was glad he didn't land any big shots,

Remember Johnson was 38 and Dubios was 20 , Power wasn't the problem landing on a crafty veteran was,

I think Dubois will lose the weekend but let's give him a fair assessment

Johnson saying that indirectly praises his own durability though so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

Johnson is cute yes but he still gets hit and he got hit plenty of times in that fight.
Dubois landed enough clean shots to do damage if he could. I think he believed his own hype and took the task at hand a bit lightly which is understandable given the run he was on.

Dubois can bang that's for sure but all I'm implying is that the Johnson fight brought a bit of reality back to the talk that was gathering steam that he was some freak of nature. It was a good learning experience and it came at a good time in his young career.

As for this weekend I think Dubois will approach it in a more measured manner and aim to get a stoppage in the latter rounds. I think he will too.

yourdeadwright · 11-07-2019 3:00pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Johnson saying that indirectly praises his own durability though so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

Johnson is cute yes but he still gets hit and he got hit plenty of times in that fight.
Dubois landed enough clean shots to do damage if he could. I think he believed his own hype and took the task at hand a bit lightly which is understandable given the run he was on.

Dubois can bang that's for sure but all I'm implying is that the Johnson fight brought a bit of reality back to the talk that was gathering steam that he was some freak of nature. It was a good learning experience and it came at a good time in his young career.

As for this weekend I think Dubois will approach it in a more measured manner and aim to get a stoppage in the latter rounds. I think he will too.

I can agree with everything you said, I just think Power is the least of Dubios problems,

I see Gorman taking a close fight due to being better in the final stretch and maybe a late stoppage ,

Heavyweight Boxing

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