STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Brianne · 05-10-2012 9:10pm

Thanks mk2 that probably would'nt suit my room then as its not the warmest of rooms on a very cold night. Just wonder if anybodys heard of Hi Flame stoves. Are they a British company or are they manufactured in China. They have a new inset boiler stove with 4 output to room.

philr87 · 05-10-2012 9:51pm

Hi everyone,
I'm new to here and would appreciate some help and advice regarding plumbing a stove in conjunction with our oil boiler.we're thinking of getting a stanley erin boiler model put in the kitchen.We have a bungalow.There is a standard 8 inch flue in the wall just to connect into it.The heating at the moment is run off a grant vortex condensing boiler.when the house was built we put a 1 inch qualpex pipe in the floor running from the hotpress for the provision of a stove(for the return).looking at measurements the flow pipe from the stove will be approx 700mm from floor level.I need to check the size of the cylinder but I think it is a 36x18.Its a dual coil insulated.The bottom of the cylinder is approx 400 mm from ground level.Could the flow pipe rise vertically up the wall into the attic and travel approx 5m on the horizontal before coming back down into the hotpress into the cylinder???also need to check with our plumber if our system is open or sealed or pressurised etc...All advice would be appreciated thanks!

Ky Abu · 06-10-2012 9:35am

Stove Fan wrote: »

If you give me the measurements in cm of the 12 rads I'll work it out for you the Kw output required on the back boiler. Some will be either double or single rads.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan

Thanks for the help

All double radiators bar two and two Bathroom towel heaters

1 Rad - 1200 X 500
2 Rads - 500 X 500
1 Rad - 700 X 500
1 Rad - 800 X 500
4 Rads - 900 X 500
2 Rads - 900 X 500 X Single
2 Towel Rads - 800 X 500

cordni · 06-10-2012 1:40pm

While thinking about getting a stove I found the pictures on this thread to be really helpful. I thought I would repay the favour and post some pics of my new stove. I'm not totally finished as I need to stain the mantelpiece and the wire hanging down is for some spot lights

iphone4 pics 123.jpg

iphone4 pics 128.jpg

Stove Fan · 06-10-2012 2:27pm

philr87 wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I'm new to here and would appreciate some help and advice regarding plumbing a stove in conjunction with our oil boiler.we're thinking of getting a stanley erin boiler model put in the kitchen.We have a bungalow.There is a standard 8 inch flue in the wall just to connect into it.The heating at the moment is run off a grant vortex condensing boiler.when the house was built we put a 1 inch qualpex pipe in the floor running from the hotpress for the provision of a stove(for the return).looking at measurements the flow pipe from the stove will be approx 700mm from floor level.I need to check the size of the cylinder but I think it is a 36x18.Its a dual coil insulated.The bottom of the cylinder is approx 400 mm from ground level.Could the flow pipe rise vertically up the wall into the attic and travel approx 5m on the horizontal before coming back down into the hotpress into the cylinder???also need to check with our plumber if our system is open or sealed or pressurised etc...All advice would be appreciated thanks!

The hot water cylinder will need to be raised part into the loft so that gravity circulation can take place. The flow pipe from stove needs to constantly rise from the stove to loft and then travel to the cylinder top coil connection always rising. Max ideally 4m. If you then went down to the cylinder it wouldnt work very well by gravity and I think the water would boil in the back boiler and pipework.
As you have the return pipe routed under the floor from the hotpress the hot water cylinder would only need to go part into the loft, risen just enough to get gravity flow pipe to the top coil connection on the cylinder.

The gravity flow should be in 1 inch copper piping due to the heat.

You need to check if your boiler is open vented or pressurised. If pressurised a standard boiler stove can't be installed. You may be able to modify your pressurised boiler to open vented.
There are stoves for pressurised systems but a lot more expensive and limited choice.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 06-10-2012 2:43pm

Ky Abu wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan

Thanks for the help

All double radiators bar two and two Bathroom towel heaters

1 Rad - 1200 X 500
2 Rads - 500 X 500
1 Rad - 700 X 500
1 Rad - 800 X 500
4 Rads - 900 X 500
2 Rads - 900 X 500 X Single
2 Towel Rads - 800 X 500

Based on your rad sizes and hot water requirements your looking for a stove/range with a boiler rated at least 17kw.
The rayburn that I installed would do it, with the odd thermostatic rad valves on rooms that can be cooler. Or the larger Aarrow EB series. If you have rad(s) in the same room as the old range you can reduce the boiler size if wanted as the range/stove would heat this room.
If going for a boiler stove you need to make sure the room heat from the stove isn't too high for the room size.

Stove Fan:)

Katie OS · 06-10-2012 5:05pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, I have calculated your boiler stove required and your looking at around 15kw but as you may of included rad(s) in the room where the stove will be you could probably go for a stove with a 12kw backboiler.
I have calculated your rad sizes based on 5 large doubles and the rest singles.
You dont say what your room size is?
You need a plumber to visit as the open fire backboiler may of been disconnected due to an oil boiler being fitted which was a pressurised system which the solid fuel stove/boiler can't connect into.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan, Have been looking at the OAK 18kw boiler stove. the boiler btu is 40600. Made by hartnetts in cork. Have an installer here looking at the house. He says it cannot be inserted as I would like unless I get a huge job done that involves basically letting the insides of the chimney down and
widening the opening so it sounds a big job. Alternately I can put the stove out on the hearth. I also need a new cylinder, duel, and for it to be raised in the hotpress as I live in a bungalow, he also said the original back boiler pipes are too small as they are quarter inch and I need inch. Anyways basically do you think the btu of 40600 will be ok? and has anyone out there got pics of a boiler stove out on a hearth. I think I would take the fireplace out altogether as they dont look right poped out in front of a fireplace. Maybe just a hearth and a mantle? Help help help.
KatieOS:eek:

Stove Fan · 06-10-2012 5:41pm

Katie OS wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan, Have been looking at the OAK 18kw boiler stove. the boiler btu is 40600. Made by hartnetts in cork. Have an installer here looking at the house. He says it cannot be inserted as I would like unless I get a huge job done that involves basically letting the insides of the chimney down and
widening the opening so it sounds a big job. Alternately I can put the stove out on the hearth. I also need a new cylinder, duel, and for it to be raised in the hotpress as I live in a bungalow, he also said the original back boiler pipes are too small as they are quarter inch and I need inch. Anyways basically do you think the btu of 40600 will be ok? and has anyone out there got pics of a boiler stove out on a hearth. I think I would take the fireplace out altogether as they dont look right poped out in front of a fireplace. Maybe just a hearth and a mantle? Help help help.
KatieOS:eek:

Hi, yes the 40,000btu boiler should just about run your rads and hot water. It may be advisable while the system is drained to install a few thermostatic rad valves on the radiators in the rooms that can be cooler.
Yes you do need 1 inch pipes from stove to hotpress and a twin coil hot water cylinder. The stove can sit on the hearth infront providing the hearth it sits on projects 300mm infront and 6 inches either side.
An insert may be easier and take up less room?
Make sure the room heat of the oak doesnt produce more than 3-4kw to the room.

Stove Fan:)

Ky Abu · 06-10-2012 5:41pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Based on your rad sizes and hot water requirements your looking for a stove/range with a boiler rated at least 17kw.
The rayburn that I installed would do it, with the odd thermostatic rad valves on rooms that can be cooler. Or the larger Aarrow EB series. If you have rad(s) in the same room as the old range you can reduce the boiler size if wanted as the range/stove would heat this room.
If going for a boiler stove you need to make sure the room heat from the stove isn't too high for the room size.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan

Im not doing too bad so. I had it worked out that if the whole house needed to be heated at once that I would need around the 17/18kw mark. I am planning on putting in a Stove and Range. Joule Evacuated Tubes are on site to be installed on the roof and a Firebird C26 Oil Boiler. There is a 300L Joule Thermal Store Tank going in

I am fairly settled on the Stanley Donard Range as the two ovens are larger than the Rayburn equilivant and I think it looks a little better also.

I have seen the Stanley Reginald Stove and the Stanley Erin stove today (about the 10th time of looking at stoves

). I like the fact the Reginald has a larger ash tray than most and a nice little cover that goes over it when removing the ashes the following morning. The Stove is going into a sitting room which has 2 Radiators and this needs about 4kw overall. All the radiators in the house will have Thermostatic Valves.

I have narrowed the stoves down between the Reginald and the Blacksmith Forge. The Stanley is €1750 in M.D O'Shea's Killarney, the Blacksmith Forge can be got for about €1250 in the numerous places I have rang so far.

The Reginald is much dearer, it puts 14kw to Water, 5.5kw to the Room. The Blacksmith Forge puts 15kw to Water and 6kw to the Room.

Any thoughts on all of this? Decision time fast approaching!

:pac: :pac: :P

Stove Fan · 06-10-2012 7:24pm

Ky Abu wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan

Im not doing too bad so. I had it worked out that if the whole house needed to be heated at once that I would need around the 17/18kw mark. I am planning on putting in a Stove and Range. Joule Evacuated Tubes are on site to be installed on the roof and a Firebird C26 Oil Boiler. There is a 300L Joule Thermal Store Tank going in

I am fairly settled on the Stanley Donard Range as the two ovens are larger than the Rayburn equilivant and I think it looks a little better also.

I have seen the Stanley Reginald Stove and the Stanley Erin stove today (about the 10th time of looking at stoves ). I like the fact the Reginald has a larger ash tray than most and a nice little cover that goes over it when removing the ashes the following morning. The Erin wouldnt be sufficient to suit the house on its own as far as I can see. The Stove is going into a sitting room which has 2 Radiators and this needs about 4kw overall. All the radiators in the house will have Thermostatic Valves.

I have narrowed the stoves down between the Reginald and the Blacksmith Forge. The Stanley is €1750 in M.D O'Shea's Killarney, the Blacksmith Forge can be got for about €1250 in the numerous places I have rang so far.

The Reginald is much dearer, it puts 14kw to Water, 5.5kw to the Room. The Blacksmith Forge puts 15kw to Water and 6kw to the Room.

Any thoughts on all of this? Decision time fast approaching! :pac: :pac: :P

To be honest they are all slightly undersized for the load but out of the two choices I would go for the Stanley reginald. I'd be more confident in stanley than Blacksmith. The stove should heat the house though as rads turn themselves down with the trv's.

I would probably install the lower powered EB12 stove that produces 6kw to room and 12kw to water. I would then just use this to heat about 8 rads. This stove has a boiler passage baffle where the water inside travels through the longest path through the boiler for maximum heat transfer, so heats the rads quicker.

The thermal store seems rather small, but I'm sure the plumber has sized it for the load.

Stove Fan:)

Ky Abu · 07-10-2012 12:40am

Stove Fan wrote: »

To be honest they are all slightly undersized for the load but out of the two choices I would go for the Stanley reginald. I'd be more confident in stanley than Blacksmith. The stove should heat the house though as rads turn themselves down with the trv's.
Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan

I think the Range will be the primary source to the Cylinder as the hot press is literally 3 feet away from it.

I realise both sources would be basically on the limits for heating the whole house. However the house will be zoned and I would foresee that the Range would be lit probably in the morning and kept going over the course of the day for cooking etc and the Stove would kick in then in the evening to supplement the Range and heat the Rad's when they would be needed. Hopefully the Tubes will give some return also.

If all fails we can pop on the Oil Boiler, oil is cheap

Ermmmm.... oh wait..... its not! :mad:

Stove Fan · 07-10-2012 12:48pm

Ky Abu wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan

I think the Range will be the primary source to the Cylinder as the hot press is literally 3 feet away from it.

I realise both sources would be basically on the limits for heating the whole house. However the house will be zoned and I would foresee that the Range would be lit probably in the morning and kept going over the course of the day for cooking etc and the Stove would kick in then in the evening to supplement the Range and heat the Rad's when they would be needed. Hopefully the Tubes will give some return also.

If all fails we can pop on the Oil Boiler, oil is cheap Ermmmm.... oh wait..... its not! :mad:

Sounds a good plan. My only concern is the size of the thermal store.
If you can't store the hot water for later ie solid fuel range lit in morning to heat the thermal store and let the range go out the store may not have enough storage capacity to heat the rads later without lighting the range or stove again as the hot water in the store is rapidly depleted pumping round the radiators.
It's quite normal to have a 1000 litre plus thermal store. I'm sure your plumber has sized this or has his reasons for going smaller.

Stove Fan:)

Ky Abu · 07-10-2012 1:58pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Sounds a good plan. My only concern is the size of the thermal store.
If you can't store the hot water for later ie solid fuel range lit in morning to heat the thermal store and let the range go out the store may not have enough storage capacity to heat the rads later without lighting the range or stove again as the hot water in the store is rapidly depleted pumping round the radiators.
It's quite normal to have a 1000 litre plus thermal store. I'm sure your plumber has sized this or has his reasons for going smaller.

Stove Fan:)

Hi again

The plumbers main point on the volume of the tank was when the radiators need to be heated that the Stove/Range or Oil Boiler would be able to heat up that volume of water quicker and realistically, id be predicting maybe 8 rads at most would be on at any given time, other parts of the house would be turned well down on the thermostatic valves..

Would you be able to Explain the Thermal Store tank verses a conventional Coil Cylinder please?? Just to see if I have it understood right.

Thanks for all the help Stove Fan, send on the invoice

Stove Fan · 07-10-2012 4:59pm

Ky Abu wrote: »

Hi again

The plumbers main point on the volume of the tank was when the radiators need to be heated that the Stove/Range or Oil Boiler would be able to heat up that volume of water quicker and realistically, id be predicting maybe 8 rads at most would be on at any given time, other parts of the house would be turned well down on the thermostatic valves..

Would you be able to Explain the Thermal Store tank verses a conventional Coil Cylinder please?? Just to see if I have it understood right.

Thanks for all the help Stove Fan, send on the invoice

A standard triple coil cylinder the water inside is the actual hot water to the taps and is heated by the 3 coils for the 3 heat souces. solar, oil and stove.
The insulation on them isn't anywhere as good as a thermal store.

The thermal store the water inside is actally part of the heating water and isn't the hot water supply to the hot taps. The hot water is heated by a coil inside the thermal store to give mains pressure hot water.
The boilers are connected to this store either by indirect coils or with a solid fuel boiler directly. Ie the water in the stoves boiler is the same water as in the thermal store.
The thermal store is more efficient as the thermal store once heated can keep a large volume of water hot once the fires have gone out and can pump it at a later date to heat the rads. The large water volume avoids having to keep the fire lit or using the oil.
The thermal store looses very little heat as it is much more insulated than a standard hot water cylinder.

Stove Fan:)

philr87 · 07-10-2012 10:32pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

The hot water cylinder will need to be raised part into the loft so that gravity circulation can take place. The flow pipe from stove needs to constantly rise from the stove to loft and then travel to the cylinder top coil connection always rising. Max ideally 4m. If you then went down to the cylinder it wouldnt work very well by gravity and I think the water would boil in the back boiler and pipework.
As you have the return pipe routed under the floor from the hotpress the hot water cylinder would only need to go part into the loft, risen just enough to get gravity flow pipe to the top coil connection on the cylinder.

The gravity flow should be in 1 inch copper piping due to the heat.

You need to check if your boiler is open vented or pressurised. If pressurised a standard boiler stove can't be installed. You may be able to modify your pressurised boiler to open vented.
There are stoves for pressurised systems but a lot more expensive and limited choice.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for the advice Stove Fan:)
The gravity flow will be copper as the qualpex couldn't take the direct heat direct heat from the boiler.We have the qualpex in floor as return will be cool enough for it.Would you recommend crossing the flow and return rather than having them on the same side of stove?I just looked at the oil boiler and it looks like it has a pressure vessel in it.If thats the case I assume I cant fit this stove to the system as it is.I was looking on system links website earlier and came across the "Heat Genie". I think this allows you to connect a stove to a pressurised system without modifying it...I'm going to ring them tomorrow about it.Have you ever heard about it?

raglan · 07-10-2012 10:41pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Sounds a very busy week:eek:
Excellent news on the sale of your stove!
Get your plumber to wire the pump to a pipe thermostat otherwise the pump is constantly circulating cool water and not switching on/off automatically. The pipe stat should be set around 45-55 degrees. More info in installers manual. I install mine on the flow pipe from stove.
Without this pipe stat it will take longer to heat up and is a must to conform with the stoves warranty. Otherwise the boiler will suffer from condensation and shorten it's life. Looking forward to pics.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan,
Like EMG74, we have recently installed a Stratford stove but it's EB16. I have a question about the pipe stat linked to the pump. Our plumber had it set at 50 degrees, but stove seemd to take ages to heat water so we put it higher to 70. We are currently experimenting with the stove and thermostatic controls etc...to maximise use of it but is there any specific reason pipe stat should be set at 45-55, or are we doing harm with the higher setting??? Thanks for your help.

Stove Fan · 07-10-2012 10:46pm

philr87 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Stove Fan:)
The gravity flow will be copper as the qualpex couldn't take the direct heat direct heat from the boiler.We have the qualpex in floor as return will be cool enough for it.Would you recommend crossing the flow and return rather than having them on the same side of stove?I just looked at the oil boiler and it looks like it has a pressure vessel in it.If thats the case I assume I cant fit this stove to the system as it is.I was looking on system links website earlier and came across the "Heat Genie". I think this allows you to connect a stove to a pressurised system without modifying it...I'm going to ring them tomorrow about it.Have you ever heard about it?

Yes crossflowed on the back of the boiler is the correct way to plumb the boiler pipe outlets. Best to check your existing boiler to see if it's pressurised or not. I have never heard of the heat genie so cant comment. Sounds a good plan to phone.

Stove Fan:)

Daz1973 · 08-10-2012 9:04am

Looks great cordni.I have the same fire place as you had.did fire place come out easy and did you retain your old hart and how much trouble was it to enlarge opening,once again looks great

jeni · 08-10-2012 9:10am

Hiyas, anyone know what we should do?? We installed a stove a few weeks ago, as we had no fire place we built one ourselves using fire proof plaster board, anyway around the stove we tiled with fake sandstone but the heat from the stove is what looks like burning the tile behind it, well its changing the colour anyway, should we re-tile with real stone or should it be ok

Thanks

DON44 · 08-10-2012 9:38am

FLEXIBLE STOVE PIPE?

Hi Stove Fan,

Is there such a thing as a flexible stove pipe (as opposed to the flue liner)?

The reason I ask is that my chimney flue is not centrally located in my fireplace and as a result when I go to fit my new stove on the hearth, it is sitting off-centre. I don't really have enough room to put in enough bends to rectify this. There is only a very short distance (8" or so) to be bridged from the rear stove outlet to the clay pipe adaptor and it would make life very easy is I could bridge this gap with some kind of flexible piping.

Many thanks

DON

vfitzpatrick · 08-10-2012 1:27pm

Hi All!

I'm sorry if something similar has been asked already! I'm building a house at the moment which is air tight with the heat recovery system in it! I have decided to put a stove in but i have already got foundations in and am wondering if it can be done considering i have no external air supply at the moment. can anybody tell me if there is an easy way to do this or do i have to create this external air supply?

Thanks in advance

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 3:45pm

raglan wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan,
Like EMG74, we have recently installed a Stratford stove but it's EB16. I have a question about the pipe stat linked to the pump. Our plumber had it set at 50 degrees, but stove seemd to take ages to heat water so we put it higher to 70. We are currently experimenting with the stove and thermostatic controls etc...to maximise use of it but is there any specific reason pipe stat should be set at 45-55, or are we doing harm with the higher setting??? Thanks for your help.

45 degrees is the minimum return temperature to prevent condensation forming on the back boiler so setting it between 45-55 degrees is the correct setting.
At 70 degrees it would get the domestic hot water hotter but take longer to switch the pump on to heat the rads. 50 degrees sounds about right. If your burning turf please bear in mind the heat output is far reduced than coal or wood. You will need a blazing fire going to initially heat the rads. Put the boiler thermostat on max.
How big is your system, saves me going back to see?

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 3:49pm

vfitzpatrick wrote: »

Hi All!

I'm sorry if something similar has been asked already! I'm building a house at the moment which is air tight with the heat recovery system in it! I have decided to put a stove in but i have already got foundations in and am wondering if it can be done considering i have no external air supply at the moment. can anybody tell me if there is an easy way to do this or do i have to create this external air supply?

Thanks in advance

It depends on your stove position.

If your stove is placed on an external wall the installer would use a core drill to drill a hole through the external wall behind the stove for the external air supply vent.

If your stove is in a central position/ non external wall a duct should be buried in/under the floor prior to concreting/laying.

Stove Fan:)

vfitzpatrick · 08-10-2012 3:55pm

Thank you for your help Stove Fan

Unfortunately that is not good news for me!!! It is not at an external wall and we have poured the base already!

Back to the drawing board for me I think

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 4:02pm

DON44 wrote: »

FLEXIBLE STOVE PIPE?

Hi Stove Fan,

Is there such a thing as a flexible stove pipe (as opposed to the flue liner)?

The reason I ask is that my chimney flue is not centrally located in my fireplace and as a result when I go to fit my new stove on the hearth, it is sitting off-centre. I don't really have enough room to put in enough bends to rectify this. There is only a very short distance (8" or so) to be bridged from the rear stove outlet to the clay pipe adaptor and it would make life very easy is I could bridge this gap with some kind of flexible piping.

Many thanks

DON

Yes, you can buy adjustable elbows like this in various flue sizes.
http://www.directflues.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1151&category_id=24&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=7
Or a cooker offset.
http://www.directflues.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=697&category_id=24&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=7
8 inches above the stove sounds tight. Should ideally for regulations be 12 inches above.

No idea where to buy here though, try your stove shop.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 4:03pm

vfitzpatrick wrote: »

Thank you for your help Stove Fan Unfortunately that is not good news for me!!! It is not at an external wall and we have poured the base already!

Back to the drawing board for me I think

Oh bugger:(

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 4:13pm

jeni wrote: »

Hiyas, anyone know what we should do?? We installed a stove a few weeks ago, as we had no fire place we built one ourselves using fire proof plaster board, anyway around the stove we tiled with fake sandstone but the heat from the stove is what looks like burning the tile behind it, well its changing the colour anyway, should we re-tile with real stone or should it be ok

Thanks

Any chance of a photo? You need to upload the picture to a photo hosting site like photobucket, picassa etc.
Copy image code and then paste it into your reply. If it doesnt show resize the image.
The fireproof plasterboard isnt the right stuff to use as far as I'm aware due to the pink paper stuck to the chalk like substance.
Inside the fireplace opening should be lined with vermiculite or scamolex board.

Stove Fan:)

Katie OS · 08-10-2012 4:38pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, yes the 40,000btu boiler should just about run your rads and hot water. It may be advisable while the system is drained to install a few thermostatic rad valves on the radiators in the rooms that can be cooler.
Yes you do need 1 inch pipes from stove to hotpress and a twin coil hot water cylinder. The stove can sit on the hearth infront providing the hearth it sits on projects 300mm infront and 6 inches either side.
An insert may be easier and take up less room?
Make sure the room heat of the oak doesnt produce more than 3-4kw to the room.

Stove Fan:)

One last query stove fan and I promise not to bother you again. He says that he will put in a flexible flue and insulation. Is this a good idea. Why flexible when we have a straight chimney as we live in a bungalow? Is there some reason why flexible is best and how would this work for cleaning the chimney in the future?
KatieOS:eek:

dos30 · 08-10-2012 4:38pm

Hi StoveFan/All,

Currently building a house close to the passive spec.
PHPP show it as requiring 19.5kWh/m2/year as opposed to the PH spec of 15kWh/m2/year.
We've one large open planning kitchen/dining/living area where we're planning on putting a stove. Dimensions are 12m x 5.5m x vaulted ceiling up to 3.9m.
A heat pump is our main heating supply, but this room has a full length glass wall, so will need extra heat from a stove during the winter.
What are your thoughts on sizing a stove?
Do you've any recommendations for a room sealed stove? Using the schiedel flue and chimney system if that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 4:59pm

Katie OS wrote: »

One last query stove fan and I promise not to bother you again. He says that he will put in a flexible flue and insulation. Is this a good idea. Why flexible when we have a straight chimney as we live in a bungalow? Is there some reason why flexible is best and how would this work for cleaning the chimney in the future?
KatieOS:eek:

Hi, no problem:)

Yes lining the chimney and backfilling with vermiculite insulation is a great job as the existing chimney is generally too big and can suffer condensation and poor draw as the chimney absorbs the heat from the flue gases.

The liner is flexible so as to push it down the chimney with a rope attatched and a helper below pulling while the person above pushes and guides it down. Its flexible as generally there are bends in chimneys due to upstairs fireplace etc, so make it one type to suit all chimneys.

Your installer should install 904 grade stainless steel liner if predominantly using coal rather than just wood.

For sweeping. The chimney may be able to be swept through the stove but I would advice the installer to buy a length of enamel pipe or bend if needed with a soot door for sweeping. If using the top exit on the stove this would be on the straight pipe directly above or at an elbow if needed.
http://www.fluesystems.com/shop/Stove_Pipe.html

Stove Fan:)

winster · 08-10-2012 5:08pm

Hi

Does anyone know anything about the invicta range of woodburning stoves. I am looking at getting the invicta modena but can't find any reviews for it. I need a stove with a fairly high output and I really like the look of the modena.

Thanks

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 5:29pm

winster wrote: »

Hi

Does anyone know anything about the invicta range of woodburning stoves. I am looking at getting the invicta modena but can't find any reviews for it. I need a stove with a fairly high output and I really like the look of the modena.

Thanks

Hi, they are a French brand and this model went on the market in 2008. See
http://www.invicta-sa.com/portail/en/produits/chauffage/207-poele-fonte-modena-emaille.html

I have never owned one, so no review

.

We had a SUPRA HF3950 stove which was 600euro in the french bricos and 2 years later cost a lot more. It was ok at the first price but not worth the higher cost.
Better quality bought in the UK.

Stove Fan:)

Katie OS · 08-10-2012 6:42pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, no problem:)

Yes lining the chimney and backfilling with vermiculite insulation is a great job as the existing chimney is generally too big and can suffer condensation and poor draw as the chimney absorbs the heat from the flue gases.

The liner is flexible so as to push it down the chimney with a rope attatched and a helper below pulling while the person above pushes and guides it down. Its flexible as generally there are bends in chimneys due to upstairs fireplace etc, so make it one type to suit all chimneys.

Your installer should install 904 grade stainless steel liner if predominantly using coal rather than just wood.

For sweeping. The chimney may be able to be swept through the stove but I would advice the installer to buy a length of enamel pipe or bend if needed with a soot door for sweeping. If using the top exit on the stove this would be on the straight pipe directly above or at an elbow if needed.
http://www.fluesystems.com/shop/Stove_Pipe.html

Stove Fan:)

That great, thanks, though I think it will be the rear exit on the stove if it has to go out on the hearth, will this make sweeping more difficult?
KatieOS:eek:

raglan · 08-10-2012 7:27pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

45 degrees is the minimum return temperature to prevent condensation forming on the back boiler so setting it between 45-55 degrees is the correct setting.
At 70 degrees it would get the domestic hot water hotter but take longer to switch the pump on to heat the rads. 50 degrees sounds about right. If your burning turf please bear in mind the heat output is far reduced than coal or wood. You will need a blazing fire going to initially heat the rads. Put the boiler thermostat on max.
How big is your system, saves me going back to see?

Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stove Fan, does it matter how high boiler thermostat is set too, what would be the ideal temperature? Just finding our feet with it, it was between the EB12 and EB16 stove, and we went with the 16. It's for a 1890 sq ft house I posted asking your advice during the summer. Just finding our feet with it to use it to its optimum. We had a Oisin non boiler before which had great heat to the room, want to use this to its best to get heat to the room while maintaining heat to rads etc....thanks again.

Smithers1 · 08-10-2012 8:19pm

HI, I'm new to this forum, so hope I'm allowed just input...
I've been doing some research and have opted for the Riva 40 (heat only, no back boiler or Rads). Had it priced here but by time they had quoted for installation etc we were almost double at 4k. H'ever, I've located same stove up North for 500 Euro less (delivered) and my plumber says that he can install it - that it's straight forward. Anyone any experience of buyin/installing separately?

bpm89 · 08-10-2012 8:46pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Sounds a great idea:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove fan,
Really interested on what you could add here as i have seen the brilliant advice you are giving on stoves in general and fair play to you. Apologies for just jumping in here but am new to this so please excuse me.

I am looking for some response of anyone who has installed an Oil Fulled back burning stove (i.e fed by kerosene tank, heating water and rads). The house is a 3 bed semi detached built around 1960 with a small extension so poor installation is a given and heat loss etc. Plans to improve insulation however.

The current system is a oil boiler CH system, heating 10 rads at present. The plan is to remove the boiler and have a back burning stove fitted in the kitchen of the house fed directly by the kerosene tank to heat the living area (kitchen) and also the rads and water for the entire house. (2 storey house).

The future plan is to incorporate solar panels to help the system be more efficient but that will be a year or so down the line.

What i am looking for is anyone in the same situation who has retrofitted one to an old house and what kW is required etc (i am assuming an 8kW stove will be sufficient but have been told i will need an 18kW). The saving they have found compared to say a multifuel stove or any informed opinions.

I am an engineer so have little practical experience when it comes to plumbing electrical other than a keen DIYer.
The work will be carried out by qualified plumbers/builder etc but i'm just doing some research before i commit to my decision.

Thank you in advance.

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 10:26pm

dos30 wrote: »

Hi StoveFan/All,

Currently building a house close to the passive spec.
PHPP show it as requiring 19.5kWh/m2/year as opposed to the PH spec of 15kWh/m2/year.
We've one large open planning kitchen/dining/living area where we're planning on putting a stove. Dimensions are 12m x 5.5m x vaulted ceiling up to 3.9m.
A heat pump is our main heating supply, but this room has a full length glass wall, so will need extra heat from a stove during the winter.
What are your thoughts on sizing a stove?
Do you've any recommendations for a room sealed stove? Using the schiedel flue and chimney system if that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance

No idea on passive house stove sizes but generally need very small stove outputs. On the stove output calculators for average insulation they say 16kw.
Based on the near passive level I would guess 5-6kw max
I would highly consider the charnwood island 1 This has an external air option.
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/island-i.aspx

There are others.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 10:31pm

Katie OS wrote: »

That great, thanks, though I think it will be the rear exit on the stove if it has to go out on the hearth, will this make sweeping more difficult?
KatieOS:eek:

It shouldn't. The installer could either use a T piece if using the rear flue outlet. The T piece has a cap on the bottom which is removable for sweeping.
Or on the vertical flue pipe have a sweeping hatch. He may install both.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 10:40pm

raglan wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan, does it matter how high boiler thermostat is set too, what would be the ideal temperature? Just finding our feet with it, it was between the EB12 and EB16 stove, and we went with the 16. It's for a 1890 sq ft house I posted asking your advice during the summer. Just finding our feet with it to use it to its optimum. We had a Oisin non boiler before which had great heat to the room, want to use this to its best to get heat to the room while maintaining heat to rads etc....thanks again.

The actual boiler thermostat on the stove should be set on full to get the full burn/output. Once the house is hot enough turn it down to the level of comfort required.
This thermostat automatically controls the burn rate/ hence heat output to rads.
Try experimenting with it but generally the higher the stove thermostat setting the brighter the fire burns the hotter the rads.
You will then find the ideal boiler setting to give optimal burn/heat and house comfort.

The pipe thermostat should be set at 50.

I see that I recommended this stove. It should heat most of your rads except the open plan rooms as the stoves heat should heat these areas. These rads will need to be turned off. How is the stove performing and on what fuel?
This is what I wrote here.

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi Your stove should heat most of the Kitchen/living room/conservatory on it's own so have only based the figure on the remaining rads.

Your new stove will/should be plumbed to heat upstairs and downstairs rads if thats what you want

Your looking for a stove with a 15kw-18kw back boiler and around 7kw to the room. with having no double doors to the kitchen the heat should circulate to the other rooms.

Your actual rads equate to around 12kw but you need to allow 2-3kw for domestic hot water. Plus I have allowed a bit extra output incase you need some rads on in conservatory.

I personally would consider the arrow EB16.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co....s/eb16-he.html

If your system is zoned and you didnt heat both zones at once you could install a smaller output boiler stove, but myself I would go and heat all the rads I mentioned.

The stanley erin and EB12 boiler output would be too small a boiler output to heat all the rads I mentioned.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 08-10-2012 11:06pm

bpm89 wrote: »

Stove fan,
Really interested on what you could add here as i have seen the brilliant advice you are giving on stoves in general and fair play to you. Apologies for just jumping in here but am new to this so please excuse me.

I am looking for some response of anyone who has installed an Oil Fulled back burning stove (i.e fed by kerosene tank, heating water and rads). The house is a 3 bed semi detached built around 1960 with a small extension so poor installation is a given and heat loss etc. Plans to improve insulation however.

The current system is a oil boiler CH system, heating 10 rads at present. The plan is to remove the boiler and have a back burning stove fitted in the kitchen of the house fed directly by the kerosene tank to heat the living area (kitchen) and also the rads and water for the entire house. (2 storey house).

The future plan is to incorporate solar panels to help the system be more efficient but that will be a year or so down the line.

What i am looking for is anyone in the same situation who has retrofitted one to an old house and what kW is required etc (i am assuming an 8kW stove will be sufficient but have been told i will need an 18kW). The saving they have found compared to say a multifuel stove or any informed opinions.

I am an engineer so have little practical experience when it comes to plumbing electrical other than a keen DIYer.
The work will be carried out by qualified plumbers/builder etc but i'm just doing some research before i commit to my decision.

Thank you in advance.

Hi:) If I have this right you want to remove your current oil boiler and install a stove fired by oil with a backboiler? My first question is why, as the oil boiler especially a condensor oil boiler would be more efficient.
Why not a solid fuel boiler stove as well? Conveniance of oil and cheaper running costs of the solid fuel boiler stove.

A plumber would need to visit and size the boiler stove.

More insulating is definately a good investment:D.

If you want the fire effect in the kitchen and don't want solid fuel consider keeping your oil boiler but just install a non boilered oil stove.

Stove Fan:)

bpm89 · 08-10-2012 11:52pm

Hey thanks for your reply.
The old boiler is not running for a while now and is very old hence the reason to install a oil fired back burner in the kitchen. The old range is still in the kitchen and on the opposite side of this in the living room is the open fire. My mother(whos house it is) proposed to install a multifuel one however for convenience and less day to day maintenance(lighting every day, cleaning out ashes) i think the oil fired would work better, no? The overall cost of a new boiler versus a oil fired stove i would imagine is costly.

However having researched further there seems to be currently very few oil fired back burners that would give the output required (i reckon about 18kW, for 9 rads and DHW) on the other hand multifuels are well able to give the required output.

The fire affect is not really essential as if so can just light the open fire in the sitting room for that.

Thanks again for your reply.

mk2 · 08-10-2012 11:54pm

Hi stovefan a friend is looking for a boiler stove in his 2 bed bungalow his sitting room is 16'x12'5 it has two single doors on it one leading to the hallway and one going into the conservatory it has insulation there are 8 rads
2x 104 x 30 double
2x 54x54 double
1x 91x55 single
2x 121x55 double
1x 91x55 double

Could you calculate the kw output he would need and maybe recommend a few stoves that might suit his needs!
Thanks mk2!

RoscommoLad · 09-10-2012 9:46pm

vfitzpatrick wrote: »

Thank you for your help Stove Fan Unfortunately that is not good news for me!!! It is not at an external wall and we have poured the base already!

Back to the drawing board for me I think

Hi,

As you cannot run the pipe in the floor and T off to come up for the stove maybe you could run the pipe in the ceiling parallel with the floor joist and T off to come down to the stove - the T could be chased into the chimney breast to bring the pipe down.

RoscommonLad.

Joe10000 · 10-10-2012 1:30pm

I am looking at the option of a stove with a boiler to heat the house and a couple of people have told me to stay well clear, mostly for two reasons. First is that I will have to feed it with fuel every 30 minutes in order to keep it hot enough to heat the rads and by doing this the room the stove is in will be unbearably hot. (irrespective of the advertised output for the room) Secondly is the dirt, both the storage of fuel and the waste ash.

Does anybody agree with these sentiments ?

Thanks

Stove Fan · 10-10-2012 4:18pm

mk2 wrote: »

Hi stovefan a friend is looking for a boiler stove in his 2 bed bungalow his sitting room is 16'x12'5 it has two single doors on it one leading to the hallway and one going into the conservatory it has insulation there are 8 rads
2x 104 x 30 double
2x 54x54 double
1x 91x55 single
2x 121x55 double
1x 91x55 double

Could you calculate the kw output he would need and maybe recommend a few stoves that might suit his needs!
Thanks mk2!

Your friend is looking for a stove with a 12kw backboiler.

The room size requires 3.5kw to heat the room only, so with the doors open could go for a higher room heat output.
I think an inset stove would be best as they have a lower room heat output.

The arrow insert stove EB12 Inset would be ideal. 12kw to water 5kw to room which should be fine with the doors open.
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Aarrow-Stratford-Ecoboiler-12i-HE-Stove.html
Your friend may prefer the more modern looking ESSE 350 greenswith 11.1kw to water burning wood, more on solid fuel and 3.6kw to room.
http://www.esse.com/multifuel-stoves/350gs/

Stove Fan.

Stove Fan · 10-10-2012 4:37pm

Joe10000 wrote: »

I am looking at the option of a stove with a boiler to heat the house and a couple of people have told me to stay well clear, mostly for two reasons. First is that I will have to feed it with fuel every 30 minutes in order to keep it hot enough to heat the rads and by doing this the room the stove is in will be unbearably hot. (irrespective of the advertised output for the room) Secondly is the dirt, both the storage of fuel and the waste ash.

Does anybody agree with these sentiments ?

Thanks

I don't, but the stove has to be sized to suit the heating load and also the stoves room output isn't too high for the room size it's going into.
If the room requires more heat than what the stove produces then a radiator would need to be installed.
It depends on the stove as to how often it would need refuelling. Ours needs refuelling every hour but some better makes are less and the worst makes every 30 minutes.
Quality stove= less attention needed and longer burn time.
With a boiler stove a lot of the heat is absorbed by the water in the boiler.
With our Ash I chuck it on the garden bank.
For fuel we used to stack the firewood in the garage and coal in a coal bunker.
When burning coal you need to empty the ashpan everyday, and the coal dust can cover the mantlepiece in a film of dust. Sprinkling the coal with the watering can helps greatly.
With burning wood only we empty the ashes once a week in the depth of winter. Wood is very clean but quite dear to buy.

I have heated 2 properties for the last 7 years with a boiler stove only and find it straightforward if you have the time to tend the fire. I find it cheaper than oil and love the focal point in the room.

Where we live there is no mains gas.
Here is ours lit:D

Ps I don't sell or install stoves either.

Stove Fan:)

famlitsku · 10-10-2012 10:47pm

Hi, we've just had a quote to put 2 stoves in and we think the installation costs are v. high. 2 5kw free-standing stoves as space heaters. I is to replace an existing stove; slate slab and flue in place, just needs max 2m of flue to connect it - installation cost 650 euro. The other is going in a fireplace; old 2 storey red brick house, chimney needs to be lined - quote of 1200 euro to install. What do you think?
Thanks!!

Stove Fan · 10-10-2012 10:58pm

famlitsku wrote: »

Hi, we've just had a quote to put 2 stoves in and we think the installation costs are v. high. 2 5kw free-standing stoves as space heaters. I is to replace an existing stove; slate slab and flue in place, just needs max 2m of flue to connect it - installation cost 650 euro. The other is going in a fireplace; old 2 storey red brick house, chimney needs to be lined - quote of 1200 euro to install. What do you think?
Thanks!!

It's very hard to say if the price is high or not as every job is different and I don't know the complexity of the job and access for lowering liner from roof.

All I can say is try to get some more quotes based on like for like.

See if they will quote materials and labour seperately.

Stove Fan:)

ganger · 11-10-2012 8:43am

I am looking at non boiler stoves for an average size sitting room/kitchen .I see stanley have firebricks but a lot of other brands dont.The stanley we were looking at was the OSCAR also the CARA insert caught our eye.Any advice on other type of brands ,which all seem to be cheaper for some reason.

wait4me · 11-10-2012 11:11am

She, who must (sometimes) be obeyed, likes the look of the Wander Marvic insert to replace an open fire in the sitting room. Anybody have one of these?

Second question regarding the installation of an insert. If we were to change the fireplace as well - what happens first - the stove insert or the new fireplace. I ask because we may source the insert from one retailer and the fireplace from another.

Third question regarding a stainless steel flue. This is to interpret "sales-talk". The fireplace is twenty years old - seldom used in the past. A retailer said that the Marvic insert does not need a full flue if the chimney is in good condition. (Reading threads here supports this view). He said that insulating the flue with a 45 degree turn is sometimes unsuccessful as the insulation often is hit-and-miss at the turn which can lead to corrosion of the flue. I would like to get everything done at the same time but would be worried about spending on money on a flue that is 1)not necessary and 2) potentially liable to corrode. I have better ways of corroding my money :eek: Views? Thanks

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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