STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Im looking at getting a duel sided wood burning stove/boiler for my 4 bed bungalow 1400sq ft. Currently the house has storage heating but in time i want to make to switch away from electric. I like the style of the Boru 900i but my understanding is that its not a boiler type stove. Is there any option out there that would cater for my needs that looks visually like the Boru. I expect in time to install 9-10 rads in the house in time but would like to future proof with the boiler now than purchasing one that would be not up to the requirements later.

Additionally i was first going to get the walls pumped with insulation and upgrate the attic insulation possibly via the SEAI grant scheme, is there any incentives from the government for upgrading from storage heating to the stove/boiler or whats the best way to look at upgrading from the current set up so i would be less reliant on electic power to heat the water and rooms in the house.

First off, thanks to Stove Fan for his PM's last week with regards to the chimney flue. It really helped.

Today though, we went out looking at the stoves themselves. It's one thing looking at them via the InterWeb, and quite another standing right in front of them.

Like everyone doing an install, we have a criteria to work to. Budget, space to heat, position of stove, to line or not to line, etc, etc.

Our criteria comes down to this:-
The room that the stove will be sited in is 4m x 3.75m x 2.4m high. This room has two doors leading from it, one to a kitchen and the other to a bedroom. Sometimes they are left open, sometimes they are closed.

From reading this thread (which takes an age and a half from start to finish), I figured that the stove will need to be around 6kw. (Non boiler stove, just a room heater)
If my calculations are wrong, please tell me.

The site for the stove will be on the hearth just in front of the existing fireplace, and to comply (just) with regulations the stove needs to be as shallow as possible as it won't fit into the fireplace itself. Changing the fireplace surround is not an option.

So with the above facts in mind, we have narrowed our options down to just 2 stoves.
The first is a Henley Suir. It is rated at 6kw, and is 290mm deep.
The second is a Wainsford Arthur. It is rated at 6.5kw, and is 270mm deep.

The fully installed price of either of these units is only a couple of Euro of a difference. A bit of a toss-up really.

We've looked long and hard, but can't find any reviews for these stoves on-line.
Is there anyone here on this thread that knows these stoves?
Does anyone actually have either of these stoves fitted? If so, how would you rate them?
Are there reviews for these stoves on-line, that I have missed? If so, please post a link.
Are there any other types of stove out there that would meet with our criteria, that I may have overlooked?

Stove Fan wrote: »

Thanks for your kind comments:)

The henley suir is an evergreen made stove which is a Chinese import known as "poplar".
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog/evergreen-st0406-poplar-multifuel-woodburning-stove-p-528.html
They are very much a budget stove but most UK hetas installers refuse to install them due to poor quality casting.

They wainsford arthur will for the price be a Chinese made stove.

If you do intend to buy ask about spare parts availability. May be a good idea to buy a spare grate and glass.

I personally would buy a better stove after saving up. Unfortunately you get what you pay for.
If you want the best of Chinese look at Firefox stoves and Tiger stoves.

The 6kw output should be fine so long as your house is well insulated. If you go any bigger the room with the stove in will be very hot. It may get hot anyway as your room with stove only requires around 2.55kw.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for the info, Stove Fan.

Having looked at various online sites, it seems that we may be 'tied' to the two stoves I listed, due to the depth of them. All others that we have looked at are getting to the size that they start to compromise the hearth distance required. The Suir and the Arthur barely make it as it is ... :rolleyes:

At present, we can afford to get the chimney properly lined out, but it does leave finances a bit short for a more expensive stove that would also require a hearth upgrade.
If and when things start getting better, we can always do the upgrade then; without worrying about the chimney as that will be done already.

I'll definitely ask about spare parts availability (tbh, that question never crossed my mind), and then take it from there.

emg74 wrote: »

Well, we have had a bit of a crazy busy week. Advertised our old stove on DoneDeal last Thursday morning, had a buyer at asking price by 3pm. Everything had to be disconnected over the weekend to have it ready for its new owner on Monday. We decided that we were going to change hearth too - we had liscannor stone which was impossible to keep clean so decided to go with granite. Organized that with a local man who does granite work. He had it ready on Monday, so got that on Tuesday morning. Hubby & guy next door got it fitted on Tuesday night. Plumber arrived yesterday evening when he finished at work and himself and hubby started the work yesterday evening... Worked out really well. Not a lot of changing of pipes to be done and a small fire was lit @ 11pm last night. Wasn't sure how it was working out as it seemed to take ages to get heat in cylinder or rads. In the end we just switched off the pump to heat the rads so as to get the cylinder hot first.

Really testing it out today and so far I am very impressed. The cylinder is hot (It was warm from last night) and there is great heat in the rads - the fire has been on for about 1hr 45mins

I will pop up some photos when we get everything tidied up and presentable. Still have bricks to put back into the fireplace and to cover up the pipes etc

Sounds a very busy week:eek:
Excellent news on the sale of your stove!
Get your plumber to wire the pump to a pipe thermostat otherwise the pump is constantly circulating cool water and not switching on/off automatically. The pipe stat should be set around 45-55 degrees. More info in installers manual. I install mine on the flow pipe from stove.
Without this pipe stat it will take longer to heat up and is a must to conform with the stoves warranty. Otherwise the boiler will suffer from condensation and shorten it's life. Looking forward to pics.

Stove Fan:)

emg74 wrote: »

There is some kind of stat in the attic but I know he was talking about moving it to the hotpress onto one of the pipes coming onto cylinder - I think hubby was supposed to be looking into it for him.

Hi the pipe stat will look like in this link.http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/salus-ct100-cylinderpipe-1932-17051?utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=GB&utm_campaign=GoogleBase&gclid=CI6LwtKGzrACFUEd4QodwWlrYQ

I installed one recently and fitted it right next to the rayburn on the flow.

Ours is about 2m from the stove on the flow. Some manufacturers show it on the return past the cylinder but I find it works best/quicker on the flow.

Stove Fan:)

sculldog wrote: »

we are currently in the early stages of construction of a two storey house.
ground floor 130 square metres
first floor 97 s. m
we are going to site a multi fuel stove with back boiler in ground floor living area - 5.175m x4.750m , with a small wood burning stove in upstairs living area- 6m x 5m.(unlikely to be used as often)
unsure as to what size of stoves would be required??
we were thinking of installing underfloor heating downstairs with rads upstairs but would be open to what others think would be best/ most efficient, also undecided on solar panels or not..??
please help pretty confused......

Hi based on your 2 room sizes you need a 4.5kw stove and for the upstairs room 5.5kw. Less if building to passive standards.

With the 4.5kw stove being a boiler stove you need 4.5kw to room and if you want it to heat all of the house it has to be sized for the heating load.
A plumber or engineer would calculate this taking into account various things including insulation levels.

You can't use the stove direct to heat the underfloor heating as it would produce too hot water. This is as far as I'm aware. If you do want to use the stove to heat the underfloor then consider a thermal store. This store would connect the solar panels for summer hot water if wanted.

If you used radiators throughout the stove could heat the rads direct.

Underfloor is more efficient but with only a stove for heat you could be dissapointed as it's not a constant steady heat and needs the fire lit to get heat. If you do go for stove and underfloor you should certainly seriously consider a thermal store cylinder,. This stores the hot water produced from your stove and you can use it at any time you like using time clocks and zone valves.

I personally would install.

Thermal store, rads, and oil boiler for when ill or don't want the hassle of lighting the fire or if you go away in winter, although could consider antifreeze for heating systems for winter protection.

Solar panels for summer hot water when and if budget allowed.

If budget is an issue. Twin/triple coil hot water cylinder. Back boiler stove, oil boiler and radiators throughout.

Certainly though insulate as much as you can:)

Stove Fan:)

sculldog wrote: »

thanks for speedy informative reply stovefan....would just like to clarify would you go for radiators throughout or underfloor heating downstairs rads upstairs. i am planning to put in a thermal store ,putting in a precast concrete floor for first floor and going to pump the wall cavity(7 inch) with beads.
could you recommend a particular stove. for our needs.
thanks again

Myself personally I would go for radiators as I like the instant control and being able to switch it on or off as needed due to changes in the weather. Whereas underfloor really needs to be on all the time and can be slow to warm up. Ie the house is cooled by doors/windows being left open. Having the thermal store gives you the option to have both but the fire would need to be going quite a lot/24hours I would think to initially heat up the concrete floor slab.
I'm not up on underfloor heating so it may be best to speak to someone more experienced in underfloor heating with a stove only with regards to heat up time and how much the fire would need to be going.

No matter which type you go for certainly zone the system if it's a large house. With rads have at least 2 zones. Upstairs/downstairs, Or install thermostatic rad valves. Underfloor it's best to zone each room.

I couldn't really recommend an actual stove due to not knowing the boiler size required.

I like the Arrow ecoboiler range. Clearview stoves, Charnwood range. Woodwarm stoves, Dunsley stoves. All of these makers have boiler options on their range.
Plus there are Stanley etc.
Have a look at www.whatstove.co.uk for pictures of stoves and reviews by owners.


Stove Fan:)

Hello all - a quick question regarding fitting a stove,

I will be installing a stove and linking it to an existing (ununsed) chimney, the chimney is clear all the way to the roof with clay inserts which seem to be about 200mm wide (cant remember)

my question is, should i run new metal flues right up to the chimney outlet or do I just use a shorter half meter length?

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, I dont know of many double sided inset boiler stoves:( The one I know of are expensive. There may be other makes though.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Woodfire-RSD-series-double-sided-insert-stoves.html
The one thing I can say is if you install a boiler stove now but haven't connected it to any rads and it hasn't any water in it you will invalidate the stove manufacturers warranty. They must not be lit/used dry.

I would ideally consider a freestanding stove single sided for now and then upgrade when you do install the rads etc.

Having the walls and roof fully insulated will make a big difference in retaining warmth. Well worth doing as a first step.

I personally would upgrade the insulation and then for know buy a small freestanding stove for your living room.

I believe you can get a grant for insulation but when I enquired you need 2 things upgraded? I don't know if a stove qualifies? May be worth asking the grant people.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stove Fan

That’s exactly the type I’m after despite the cost involved, i must check to see if there is an Irish supplier of that type now.

On another note it’s often mentioned that certain stoves are wood burning only and not multi fuel, coal turf etc. Why is this or is it a case that they function best on wood only and they don’t work as well with the other fuel types?

DPM1 wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan

That’s exactly the type I’m after despite the cost involved, i must check to see if there is an Irish supplier of that type now.

On another note it’s often mentioned that certain stoves are wood burning only and not multi fuel, coal turf etc. Why is this or is it a case that they function best on wood only and they don’t work as well with the other fuel types?

Woodburning only stoves are only designed to burn wood as wood burns best without a grate. A wood only stove has no grate as the wood is burnt on the base of the stove and without the grate you get more room for logs.

A grate is designed to be used with coal as the fire requires an air supply from below whereas wood burns best with air supply controlled from above the fire.

Woodburning only stoves are generally cheaper as there isn't a grate.

Multifuel is really a stove with a grate and can burn a multitude of fuels.

Burning wood and coal together is pretty inefficient as the coal burns the wood quicker and burning this combination produced sulphuric acid which is corrosive to the stove and chimney.

If you have to burn wood or coal best to burn individually.

The best stove really is a stove with a removable grate for woodburning only. Some stoves like charnwood etc have a grate with two positions, one for wood and one for coal. http://www.charnwood.com/multifuel-grate.aspx

Stove Fan:)

DPM1 wrote: »

Makes since now alright, just from a curiosity point of view can a grate be fitted to a wood burning stove to make it multi fuel or would you say that all stoves designed and supplied as wood burning only should be kept that way. I should note that a wood burning stove would suit my needs just fine, it’s just that i always like to future proof anything that i do.

A grate can be fitted to a woodburning stove providing the stove manufacturer has the option to buy a multifuel grate for their stove. It will be listed under the options if it's available. If it's not available then it's a woodburner only.

For instance we had a villager A range woodburner but bought the optional grate for £114. Like you we liked to hedge our bets in case we ran out of wood:)

Stove Fan:)

Redfox1 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan,
I want to put an insert back boiler stove in a small room to service 13 rads.
I was looking at ESSE but not sure if it will support my needs.
Can you advise me please?

'
Hi could you measure the size of your rads and say if they are doubles or singles, I'll give you a rough idea on size required:)

I will also need your room size where the stove is going. You don't have to include the rad(s) in this room as when the stove is lit this will heat the room. How many doors are there in the room with the stove? Is it just one or 2 etc. Ie layout for heat transfer.

Stove Fan:)

Redfox1 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan,

My room size is 12' x 10'.
There are two doors in room and one window.
Five of my rads are rads are about 6' in length
Other rads are about 3' and only two of these are double rads.
My bedroom / upstairs rads are always turned down really low as I dont feel need to heat upstairs as house is well insulated and generally warm.
I have to get insert boiler stove as it is less disruption but having read up on various types I am a bit wary & totally confused!
Thanks.

Hi, yes it can be confusing:)

Based on your rad sizes and hot water requirements you need a stove with a back boiler of 16kw output.

Your room size requires around 2.3kw to heat it. The heat output of the esse is 3.6kw
The extra room heat of 1.3 kw would be easily dissipated by leaving the doors open:)

The esse 350 greenswitch produces 11.1kw to water using wood only and more burning coal:D.
Unfortunately the boiler in the esse is a bit small but may be ok if you turn some of the rads low using the rads thermostatic valve.

I don't know of any other inset stoves suitable with a larger boiler but still with a low room heat output. All the others I know would make your room too hot.

I would get several quotes in for installation and discuss with your plumber.

Stove Fan:)

As i mentioned in a previous post i am looking at a getting a dual sided inset boiler stove of which there are not a lot of choices out there. I have attached 2 examples

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Woodfire-RSD-series-double-sided-insert-stoves.html

http://www.thestoveshop.ie/modules/store/Hestia-Double-Sided-Boiler-Stove-19kW_P163488C13403.cfm

Question i have is when a manufacturer states that a particular stove provides 5KW of heat to the room would that be to both sides or would it effectively mean 2.5KW per side?

Hi,
Great thread and I've tried to read as much as can to get an answer to my question, but gave up around page 20! So apologies if the answer is there somewhere.

I am building a new house with a heating system that involves solar, oil, underfloor and a buffer tank. I also would like to link a stove into this system. However a plumber has said I cannot link the stove to the buffer tank because it is located in a plant room on the ground floor. He said the stove could only be linked to the hot water cylinder and towel rails upstairs because the stove has to work with gravity. However someone else I spoke to said there are stoves available that work by pump instead of gravity. (In case it's not already clear, I really am clueless about this stuff.)

Basically I am looking for a stove that:

(1) can feed into a buffer tank located on the same level

(2) is multifuel with a removable grate for burning logs

(3) is room-sealed and can use an external air supply (airtight house)

(4) will put as little heat as possible into the room and as much as possible into the buffer tank

I would appreciate if Stove Fan or anyone else could recommend a stove that meets this list.