Why do Irish people support English teams?

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 3:51pm

8-10 wrote: »

As I've said many times, there's loads and loads of valid reasons why, quote from earlier in the thread -

Nobody is saying it's only because of parents and uncles.

Plenty trot it out for United and Liverpool though and go silent when asked about Birmingham/Everton/Palace etc

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 3:58pm

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah honestly that scenario leads into economic and social issues in the respective countries, I think you're talking about a scenario that would go above soccer and the nature of support. I would definitely not be happy to see the LOI or EPL completely cease to exist as you mention, hopefully that never comes to pass.

As I've said many times, there's loads and loads of valid reasons why, quote from earlier in the thread -

Nobody is saying it's only because of parents and uncles. There's loads of valid reasons for supporting an English team.

I regularly fly into Birmingham for Liverpool games and see plenty on the train up. Maybe it just looks that way on game days. You're probably right.

It obviously never will happen and you're just dodging it now because you know you want to say EPL but that you can't logically justify it.

Watching them on TV and other people in pubs also being pseudo supporters of the club so you can talk to them about it aren't valid reasons.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 4:01pm

How badly would it effect EPL supporters here if their team upped sticks and went to another town like Wimbledon did? What would you do?

Stevieluvsye · 12-07-2019 4:09pm

padzer220982 wrote: »

I always find it funny when people here say they support Chelsea.. a big section of their fan base are well in with the Linfield and Rangers crowd.. they'd be big admirers of the UVF/UDA boys up north.. always cracks me up when I hear people I know shouting about Chelsea

Bulls!!t

A tiny minority is all it is.

I lived in London for years (East end however) but have been to Stamford Bridge on numerous occasions. The majority of Chelsea fans are either your typical londoner or well to do type.

FTR I'm a West Ham fan

odyssey06 · 12-07-2019 4:16pm

Omackeral wrote: »

How badly would it effect EPL supporters here if their team upped sticks and went to another town like Wimbledon did? What would you do?

It was pretty tough for Shamrock Rovers, and they didn't leave Dublin?

This is a very good article, which ticks many of the boxes on the reasons why. Interestingly, as well as television, it mentions the location of the Dublin clubs in the 1950s \ 1960s 'between the canals' and the subsequent flight to the suburbs.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2016/02/12/the-declining-history-of-the-league-of-ireland/

8-10 · 12-07-2019 4:54pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

It obviously never will happen and you're just dodging it now because you know you want to say EPL but that you can't logically justify it.

No I don't want to say EPL. You've created a much larger scenario than simply which do you prefer just to prove your argument that you refuse to give up: that I want the LOI to suffer in order for the EPL to succeed.

I can categorically say that I do not want that to happen. And I do not want the LOI to cease to exist.

I have no idea why you are trying to argue consistently that I somehow want the LOI to not succeed, I have not said that. And making up scenarios that you say will obviously never happen just to try and trick me into saying I want them not to succeed is just sad.

Why can't you accept that I don't want the LOI to be less successful than the EPL? That's my opinion that I'm giving over and over to you and you seem to want badly to believe that I want the league to suffer even though I'm not saying that

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 4:55pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Comparing "I was at the game yesterday, unreal atmosphere, nobody left the ground for an hour after the trophy was lifted" to "I watched the game on tv yesterday, sounded like a good atmosphere" is absolute night and day.

True but IF your more invested in the team on tv then its debatable as to which would be more enjoyable for you. Yes it's true that a supporter of a team will enjoy watching his team live more than watching his team on tv.

Omackeral wrote: »

Wonder would any English club moving to another area bother any Irish fan in the way it did the Dons supporters.

True, it would'nt bother most Irish fans all that much.

8-10 · 12-07-2019 4:55pm

Omackeral wrote: »

How badly would it effect EPL supporters here if their team upped sticks and went to another town like Wimbledon did? What would you do?

Would it make it easier to get tickets? :P

Our main problem right now is the stadium is far too small to meet demand.

citytillidie · 12-07-2019 4:59pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Bulls!!t

A tiny minority is all it is.

I lived in London for years (East end however) but have been to Stamford Bridge on numerous occasions. The majority of Chelsea fans are either your typical londoner or well to do type.

FTR I'm a West Ham fan

I know people who were match day stewards at Chelsea before they got all the money and witness Linfield and Rangers stuff being sold at the club shop

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 5:38pm

Greyfox wrote: »

True but IF your more invested in the team on tv then its debatable as to which would be more enjoyable for you. Yes it's true that a supporter of a team will enjoy watching his team live more than watching his team on tv.

True, it would'nt bother most Irish fans all that much.

It seemed, it looked, it sounded is always trumped by it was. No matter what.

And therein lies the truth. If you can watch the very fabric of your club be ripped apart and not care then it's not your club.

8-10 · 12-07-2019 6:24pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

If you can watch the very fabric of your club be ripped apart and not care then it's not your club.

Nope. There's no rules or tiers or levels of support. It's a personal thing who your team is.

It's not up to you.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 6:26pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

And therein lies the truth. If you can watch the very fabric of your club be ripped apart and not care then it's not your club.

I never said I didn't care. If a club moves location it may even end up been a good thing in the long run. It's true it's horrible for the local fans and I would feel bad for them but the reality is it will only directly effect me if results on the pitch change.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 6:32pm

8-10 wrote: »

Nope. There's no rules or tiers or levels of support. It's a personal thing who your team is.

It's not up to you.

If you can say that your club upping sticks and moving 90km away means ''not much'' then there absolutely is a difference. Clubs are intrinsic parts of their locality.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 6:34pm

Greyfox wrote: »

I never said I didn't care. If a club moves location it may even end up been a good thing in the long run. It's true it's horrible for the local fans and I would feel bad for them but the reality is it will only directly effect me if results on the pitch change.

You don't give a rats about the club tbh by the sounds of it. Feel bad for the locals but it doesn't really effect you. Jesus.

padzer220982 · 12-07-2019 6:44pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Bulls!!t

A tiny minority is all it is.

I lived in London for years (East end however) but have been to Stamford Bridge on numerous occasions. The majority of Chelsea fans are either your typical londoner or well to do type.

FTR I'm a West Ham fan

haha ya right a tiny minority that's like saying a tiny minority of Rangers fans support loyalist paramilitaries

8-10 · 12-07-2019 7:02pm

Omackeral wrote: »

If you can say that your club upping sticks and moving 90km away means ''not much'' then there absolutely is a difference. Clubs are intrinsic parts of their locality.

But you don't have to have any ties to that locality for it to be your club.

All this thread seems to be is EPL fans saying everybody should be free to support who they want and LOI fans wanting to scrutinise and judge other fans with their own rules of what a 'proper' or 'real' fan should or shouldn't do or feel.

I know which league sounds more welcoming to new fans

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 7:06pm

8-10 wrote: »

Nope. There's no rules or tiers or levels of support. It's a personal thing who your team is.

It's not up to you.

This quote says everything I need to know about your "support" not worth the screen space it takes up.

Greyfox wrote: »

I never said I didn't care. If a club moves location it may even end up been a good thing in the long run. It's true it's horrible for the local fans and I would feel bad for them but the reality is it will only directly effect me if results on the pitch change.

You go tell that to the Wimbledon fans, I'll pre book the dentist for you. Actually nevermind Wimbledon say that to a Rovers fans face and see where it gets you.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 7:08pm

Omackeral wrote: »

You don't give a rats about the club tbh by the sounds of it. Feel bad for the locals but it doesn't really effect you. Jesus.

Nonsense, I love my club. It's the results on the pitch that matter most.

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 7:10pm

8-10 wrote: »

But you don't have to have any ties to that locality for it to be your club.

All this thread seems to be is EPL fans saying everybody should be free to support who they want and LOI fans wanting to scrutinise and judge other fans with their own rules of what a 'proper' or 'real' fan should or shouldn't do or feel.

I know which league sounds more welcoming to new fans

No this thread is loi fans saying watch whoever the **** you want but support your local aswell at least and that if you can't understand why local fans have more of a connection to the club there's something wrong. And EPL fans saying that they're too lazy to give their local team the support it deserves but taking objection to being called out on it.

Greyfox wrote: »

Nonsense, I love my club. It's the results on the pitch that matter most.

Possibly the most superficial ignorant view of football I have ever read/heard.

If you think a football club is just about results on the pitch I genuinely really pity you.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 7:18pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Actually nevermind Wimbledon say that to a Rovers fans face and see where it gets you.

After a long journey Rovers have a happy ending. Their home ground is now in a superb location.

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 7:18pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Nonsense, I love my club. It's the results on the pitch that matter most.

Not to me. Bohs haven’t won anything in years but Dalymount is a better evening out for me than it ever has been these days.

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 7:19pm

Greyfox wrote: »

After a long journey Rovers have a happy ending. Their home ground is now in a superb location.

Do you work for the FAI? Sounds like the spin they'd put on it.

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 7:21pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Do you work for the FAI? Sounds like the spin they'd put on it.

The FAI probably don’t know who Rovers are ffs

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 7:38pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Possibly the most superficial ignorant view of football I have ever read/heard.

If you think a football club is just about results on the pitch I genuinely really pity you.

We both know results on the pitch is what matters most to a football club so I don't know what your waffling about, if you don't think results matter most then you don't understand football. It's not ignorant it's living in the real world and having common sense. How can a club move effect me directly when I live nowhere near the area? It will only effect me if results change due to the move. A club is bigger than the local community.

8-10 · 12-07-2019 7:56pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

No this thread is loi fans saying watch whoever the **** you want but support your local aswell at least

Again, as I've said on this thread I do go to local games every season and I've seen my local team live more recently than Liverpool.

But doesn't mean it's my team. My team is Liverpool. Champions of Europe. Not the local team. I don't feel the same connection with them just because they're nearby.

The arrogance to classify my support of Liverpool in quotation marks says all I need to know about your bitterness.

trashcan · 12-07-2019 8:03pm

Greyfox wrote: »

How can a club move effect me directly when I live nowhere near the area? It will only effect me if results change due to the move. A club is bigger than the local community.

Well, exactly. How can it affect you when you live nowhere near the area ? But yet, you claim them as "your" club. The local supporters may disagree with you though that the club is bigger than the local community.

I've said before that I really don't give a rats ass who people support, but I do find the English supporting lads just a tad disingenuous on the subject. We all get it really. You support English teams because it's more glamorous, it's indoctrinated into us by the media, and frankly it's easier. Yeah the football is a higher standard, but I honestly think that's incidental.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 8:05pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Not to me. Bohs haven’t won anything in years but Dalymount is a better evening out for me than it ever has been these days.

But your going to enjoy the match more if your team wins. Also attendances increase when a team is doing well

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 8:10pm

Greyfox wrote: »

But your going to enjoy the match more if your team wins. Also attendances increase when a team is doing well

Well yeah. Anyway supporting a foreign team is nothing like having a local connection. They are two different experiences. I like supporting Bohs whereas I’d be very cynical about how superstar football is these days.

D14Rugby · 12-07-2019 8:16pm

Greyfox wrote: »

We both know results on the pitch is what matters most to a football club so I don't know what your waffling about, if you don't think results matter most then you don't understand football. It's not ignorant it's living in the real world and having common sense. How can a club move effect me directly when I live nowhere near the area? It will only effect me if results change due to the move. A club is bigger than the local community.

Nothing, nothing is bigger than its community, as I said if you think a football club is just results on a pitch then there's no need to even continue this because your whole view of football is flawed, nevermind your view of who to support.

8-10 wrote: »

Again, as I've said on this thread I do go to local games every season and I've seen my local team live more recently than Liverpool.

But doesn't mean it's my team. My team is Liverpool. Champions of Europe. Not the local team. I don't feel the same connection with them just because they're nearby.

The arrogance to classify my support of Liverpool in quotation marks says all I need to know about your bitterness.

You've said you wouldn't really care if your club moved. If Liverpool moved to London for example it may survive legally but in terms of it as a club it will be dead as a dodo. For me (and I feel pretty safe in saying the people of Liverpool would be with me) for you to not care about that means your support is worth sweet **** all

8-10 · 12-07-2019 8:25pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

You've said you wouldn't really care if your club moved.

Sigh

Where did I say this?

Honestly what I write and what you read are so far apart. You still havent answered my previous question from earlier so I'd appreciate a response to that and a quotation where I said I wouldn't really care if Liverpool moved

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 8:39pm

trashcan wrote: »

Well, exactly. How can it affect you when you live nowhere near the area ? But yet, you claim them as "your" club. The local supporters may disagree with you though that the club is bigger than the local community.

I've said before that I really don't give a rats ass who people support, but I do find the English supporting lads just a tad disingenuous on the subject. We all get it really. You support English teams because it's more glamorous, it's indoctrinated into us by the media, and frankly it's easier. Yeah the football is a higher standard, but I honestly think that's incidental.

I don't claim anything, their my club, there part of my childhood, I love my club as much as I love football. Yeah people can have different opinions. Again I fell in love with my English club before I even knew there was a choice, I didn't know I had a local team. I support an Airtricity league team now but it's not as easy when you don't have friends to go to a match with. I picked my team before I knew what the word glamour meant.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:05pm

8-10 wrote: »

But you don't have to have any ties to that locality for it to be your club.

Tell that to the people of Wimbledon.Their club was taken away from them. If locality meant nothing, they'd have migrated to MK. It's pretty telling that MK Dons were pretty much abhorred by the rest of the Football League. Of course, none of that matters to someone who just attaches themselves to a team from another country. It's brutal when it happens to a club that's embedded into your community though. Local people are the lifeblood of clubs the world over. The elite attract fans from everywhere else but drop to the bottom half of the EPL and it's local people propping up their clubs.

8-10 wrote: »

I know which league sounds more welcoming to new fans

The LOI loves new fans. It's been said on here so many times. There's testimonies on this thread of people being welcomed with open arms. You're just rattling off a tired cliche because it's handier to just say that.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:07pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Nonsense, I love my club. It's the results on the pitch that matter most.

So Wimbledon fans should've been going crazy for MK Dons promotions by your logic? That's grand!

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:08pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Not to me. Bohs haven’t won anything in years but Dalymount is a better evening out for me than it ever has been these days.

The camaraderie at Bohs the last two years has been exceptional. I've been there when we won leagues back to back and were in Europe and yet this time right now is as good as it's ever been. As the old adage goes, We See Things They'll Never See.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 9:11pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They are two different experiences. I like supporting Bohs whereas I’d be very cynical about how superstar football is these days.

True and one can enjoy both. Superstar football is not what it used to be.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:11pm

Greyfox wrote: »

How can a club move effect me directly when I live nowhere near the area?

This is honestly something you should be trying to brush under the rug and not highlighting. Can you imagine the uproar if Liverpool were to be moved to Yorkshire? Can you? The people of Liverpool would go absolutely nuts and rightly so. Wouldn't effect you though... Jesus Christ!

8-10 · 12-07-2019 9:13pm

Omackeral wrote: »

The LOI loves new fans. It's been said on here so many times. There's testimonies on this thread of people being welcomed with open arms. You're just rattling off a tired cliche because it's handier to just say that.

Honestly my experience as LOI grounds has been pretty neutral. Not overly welcoming or unfriendly.

I'm more commenting on how internet arguments sound to a neutral. It honestly sounds like I'm being judged for supporting Liverpool and people have said outright in this thread that I am not a real supporter or fan by multiple people. I have no interest in going to sit beside people who don't think Im a supporter of my own team.

Overall I don't see what LOI fans want. Do they want more fans?

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:15pm

Greyfox wrote: »

True and one can enjoy both.

Really wish they would. Hopefully some of the people that came to see Chelsea vs Bohs will come back.

8-10 · 12-07-2019 9:18pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Tell that to the people of Wimbledon.Their club was taken away from them. If locality meant nothing, they'd have migrated to MK. It's pretty telling that MK Dons were pretty much abhorred by the rest of the Football League. Of course, none of that matters to someone who just attaches themselves to a team from another country. It's brutal when it happens to a club that's embedded into your community though. Local people are the lifeblood of clubs the world over. The elite attract fans from everywhere else but drop to the bottom half of the EPL and it's local people propping up their clubs.

It's worse in franchise sports like baseball or American football. Wasn't long ago the LA Raiders were a thing only to now become the Las Vegas Raiders after moving from being the Oakland Raiders. 3 cities in a generation.

And spare a thought for the Montreal Expos, not only did they move city but they moved to a different country! They're now the Washington Nationals.

I don't think the English soccer teams have it nearly as bad to be honest. At least their team stays in the same country!

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:18pm

8-10 wrote: »

I have no interest in going to sit beside people who don't think Im a supporter of my own team.

People wouldn't even know. I never get this line of thought. How would they know. Also, as said umpteen times on thread, 99% of LOI fans have a team they like in England too. Anyway, always happy to have new people on board. Nothing better than seeing a newbie lose their sh*t over a banger of a goal or experiencing something wild and getting the live football bug.

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 9:20pm

8-10 wrote: »

It's worse in franchise sports like baseball or American football. Wasn't long ago the LA Raiders were a thing only to now become the Las Vegas Raiders after moving from being the Oakland Raiders. 3 cities in a generation.

And spare a thought for the Montreal Expos, not only did they move city but they moved to a different country! They're not the Washington Nationals.

I don't think the English soccer teams have it nearly as bad to be honest. At least their team stays in the same country!

They don't even have relegation/promotion over there. It's a completely different culture. Away days, for example, would be few and far between as long haul flights are required.

8-10 · 12-07-2019 9:21pm

Omackeral wrote: »

People wouldn't even know. I never get this line of thought. How would they know. Also, as said umpteen times on thread, 99% of LOI fans have a team they like in England too. Anyway, always happy to have new people on board. Nothing better than seeing a newbie lose their sh*t over a banger of a goal or experiencing something wild and getting the live football bug.

Would you happy if you team was as popular as Premier League teams?

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 9:32pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Nothing, nothing is bigger than its community, as I said if you think a football club is just results on a pitch then there's no need to even continue this because your whole view of football is flawed, nevermind your view of who to support.

It's a lot more than just results but results are required to keep the club making a profit. It's not flawed it's just you don't like the fact that not everyone sees football the same way as you. Everyone in Ireland doesn't grow up with a local team beside them.

Greyfox · 12-07-2019 9:37pm

Omackeral wrote: »

This is honestly something you should be trying to brush under the rug and not highlighting. Can you imagine the uproar if Liverpool were to be moved to Yorkshire? Can you? The people of Liverpool would go absolutely nuts and rightly so. Wouldn't effect you though... Jesus Christ!

In fairness your right if my club moved to a different city it would effect me as it would ruin part of the fabric of the club

Omackeral · 12-07-2019 10:15pm

8-10 wrote: »

Would you happy if you team was as popular as Premier League teams?

I'd be happy if the people that described themselves as football-mad in this country attended matches every week and backed their local clubs the way the people of Bristol (for example) do. Why can Bristol natives do it but we can't?

8-10 · 12-07-2019 10:26pm

Omackeral wrote: »

I'd be happy if the people that described themselves as football-mad in this country attended matches every week and backed their local clubs the way the people of Bristol (for example) do. Why can Bristol natives do it but we can't?

Yep that's fair. Definitely wouldn't describe myself as football mad but I know the type of people you're referring to

Stevieluvsye · 13-07-2019 12:15am

padzer220982 wrote: »

haha ya right a tiny minority that's like saying a tiny minority of Rangers fans support loyalist paramilitaries

You haven’t a clue.

Guessing you are a Celtic fan.

98% of Chelsea fans couldn’t give a fcuk about either of those teams.

But you probably know better than me.

Stevieluvsye · 13-07-2019 12:20am

citytillidie wrote: »

I know people who were match day stewards at Chelsea before they got all the money and witness Linfield and Rangers stuff being sold at the club shop

I’m telling you it is less than 2% who hold that view.

But don’t let that get that in the way of the original claim of large support

padzer220982 · 13-07-2019 12:51am

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

You haven’t a clue.

Guessing you are a Celtic fan.

98% of Chelsea fans couldn’t give a fcuk about either of those teams.

But you probably know better than me.

I'm a Waterford supporter.

I highly doubt that 98% of Chelsea fans don't somewhat follow Linfield or Rangers

I take it that you're an Irishman that supports Chelsea who does not want to acknowledge a good few of their fellow fans have a connection to Linfield\Rangers\Loyalism in general

How Irish people can actually support Chelsea I'll never know.

padzer220982 · 13-07-2019 1:02am

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

You haven’t a clue.

Guessing you are a Celtic fan.

98% of Chelsea fans couldn’t give a fcuk about either of those teams.

But you probably know better than me.

Some nice images of the friendship/relationship between some of the supporters of Chelsea/Rangers/Linfield (Blue's Brothers) that definitely does not exist..

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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