Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

Deviso · 29-10-2018 7:33pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Travelling this afternoon (bank holiday) from Pearse to Clongriffin.

The timetable told me to board the northbound DART to Howth for 2 stops, get off at Connolly then board the 17:20 Drogheda service at platform 6.

I thought this was unusual, as I assumed non-peak diesel services no longer stopped at Clongriffin. I hung around at platform 6, (watched the message board cycle through all the stations with lifts out of order) before realising Drogheda wasn't on the board.

Spotted a diesel train on platform 4 so decided to run downstairs, under the tunnel, up to platform 4. The diesel train showed no information on the side. There are no message boards on platform 4 either - other than 1 which shows the final destination only. I walked down to the Information booth at the bottom of the platform, which of course was closed. I went out to the guy on the turnstiles and was told the Drogheda train doesn't stop at Clongriffin. I headed back in, before looking up at the overhead message boards in the foyer, which told me it in fact did go to Clongriffin. Directly above your man's head too.

So I sheepishly boarded, and here I am, on my way, with no driver's announcement, a broken on-board display, heading to Drogheda with absolutely no idea if I can get off at Clongriffin.

Take a bow Irish Rail.

Wish me luck!

Did you get to Clongrififin alright? Only a small % of Drogheda Commuter trains stop there.

Jamie2k9 · 29-10-2018 9:26pm

17.20 stopped there like most N Commuter services today.

Hilly Bill · 29-10-2018 9:36pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

There was a SPAD yesterday which probably resulted in a driver taken down.
I’d hazard a gues the services cancelled had something to do with this. No proof mind you, just a guess.

That was a signal fault. Driver OK.

Working class heroes · 29-10-2018 9:39pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That was a signal fault. Driver OK.

You are incorrect.

Hilly Bill · 29-10-2018 9:56pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

You are incorrect.

I'm not, I'm looking at the email

Working class heroes · 29-10-2018 10:12pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'm not, I'm looking at the email

If you say so.

Hilly Bill · 29-10-2018 10:13pm

Infini wrote: »

Actually have to wonder if the driver overshot due to poor Rail Adhesion rather than passing it due to other reasons.

The signal bounced back to red as the train was approaching.

Jamie2k9 · 29-10-2018 10:35pm

The signal bounced back to red as the train was approaching.

So there was a SPAD caused by a signal fault then...

Hilly Bill · 29-10-2018 10:37pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So there was a SPAD caused by a signal fault then...

Yes,

Cookie_Monster · 29-10-2018 11:36pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Travelling this afternoon (bank holiday) from Pearse to Clongriffin.

The timetable told me to board the northbound DART to Howth for 2 stops, get off at Connolly then board the 17:20 Drogheda service at platform 6.

I thought this was unusual, as I assumed non-peak diesel services no longer stopped at Clongriffin. I hung around at platform 6, (watched the message board cycle through all the stations with lifts out of order) before realising Drogheda wasn't on the board.

Spotted a diesel train on platform 4 so decided to run downstairs, under the tunnel, up to platform 4. The diesel train showed no information on the side. There are no message boards on platform 4 either - other than 1 which shows the final destination only. I walked down to the Information booth at the bottom of the platform, which of course was closed. I went out to the guy on the turnstiles and was told the Drogheda train doesn't stop at Clongriffin. I headed back in, before looking up at the overhead message boards in the foyer, which told me it in fact did go to Clongriffin. Directly above your man's head too.

So I sheepishly boarded, and here I am, on my way, with no driver's announcement, a broken on-board display, heading to Drogheda with absolutely no idea if I can get off at Clongriffin.

Take a bow Irish Rail.

Wish me luck!

what am I missing that you would not just stay on the DART for this?

Colonel Claptrap · 29-10-2018 11:38pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what am I missing that you would not just stay on the DART for this?

Howth DART does not go to Clongriffin.

Happy to report that I got off at my stop

Rashers72 · 30-10-2018 9:08am

Your experience of complete communication breakdowns for customers during bank holiday weekends is pretty much the norm. Check out Irish Rail twitter from last weekend with customers desperate for basic information. It was made far worse due to engineering works with station signage for alternative transport modes non existent even at bigger stations. Irish Rail desperately need someone with a genuine customer focus in their management team.

thomasj · 30-10-2018 11:12am

Rashers72 wrote: »

Your experience of complete communication breakdowns for customers during bank holiday weekends is pretty much the norm. Check out Irish Rail twitter from last weekend with customers desperate for basic information. It was made far worse due to engineering works with station signage for alternative transport modes non existent even at bigger stations. Irish Rail desperately need someone with a genuine customer focus in their management team.

Like I said before , it should be a basic requirement in the contract between the NTA and transport providers, that there needs to be someone Manning social media and online throughout the companies operating hours.

FitzElla · 30-10-2018 4:53pm

thomasj wrote: »

Like I said before , it should be a basic requirement in the contract between the NTA and transport providers, that there needs to be someone Manning social media and online throughout the companies operating hours.

Well if you want a good laugh have a read of the NTA Performance reports for Irish Rail. From the most recent (Q2 2017):-

LCD displays

Available in 88% of trains covered.
100% of announcements deemed to be clear.
96% of announcements deemed to be accurate.

PA Announcements

100% perceived as being clear.
100% perceived as being accurate.

So nearly every announcement and LCD display is accurate according to the NTA. No problem here, move on :rolleyes:

Ohmeha · 30-10-2018 8:29pm

More rush hour DARTs were cancelled this evening due to the mysterious 'operational problems'

At my station anyway nothing on the displays to advise of cancellation, no announcement at the station, nothing was on the app to indicate DART was cancelled, twitter appears to be the only medium this company will communicate cancellations and then it's still too much for them to communicate exactly why trains are being cancelled. They're pathetic

Colonel Claptrap · 31-10-2018 6:34pm

14 services cancelled this evening.

What a mess.

LEIN · 31-10-2018 7:06pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

14 services cancelled this evening.

What a mess.

Would love to see totals since new timetable commenced.

Jamie2k9 · 31-10-2018 11:49pm

LEIN wrote: »

Would love to see totals since new timetable commenced.

Around 50+ I suspect.

Jamie2k9 · 31-10-2018 11:53pm

A complete mess over the BH weekend in terms of capacity planning.

ixoy · 31-10-2018 11:56pm

Is there anyone able to give a reason for all these cancellations? I thought they were training in new drivers to handle the increase in frequency?

devnull · 01-11-2018 12:03am

ixoy wrote: »

Is there anyone able to give a reason for all these cancellations? I thought they were training in new drivers to handle the increase in frequency?

The trouble is drivers are not trained overnight and the issues with mentoring heavily delayed the training up of new members of the driving grade and that isn't fixed overnight as they don't just all magically start a few days later.

The simple fact is that there is no Irish Rail driver who is driving the train that operates those services that are on the timetable and obviously if that is the case then the train cannot operate.

Jamie2k9 · 01-11-2018 12:06am

devnull wrote: »

The trouble is drivers are not trained overnight and the issues with mentoring heavily delayed the training up of new members of the driving grade and that isn't fixed overnight as they don't just all magically start a few days later.

The simple fact is that there is no Irish Rail driver who is driving the train that operates those services that are on the timetable and obviously if that is the case then the train cannot operate.

Will be surprised if all the cancellations are down to drivers.

They got all the trained drivers out so either they miss judged the number required or possible disruption around rosters, we know they were not happen about the new schedule.

devnull · 01-11-2018 12:12am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will be surprised if all the cancellations are down to drivers. They got all the trained drivers out so either they miss judged the number required or possible disruption around rosters, we know they were not happen about the new schedule.

The issue is not really about the total number of DART drivers, but obviously having more spare to cover for higher levels of staff who are not driving as regularly rostered for whatever reason, be it sickness, leave or other issues, would help.

ixoy · 01-11-2018 12:13am

devnull wrote: »

The trouble is drivers are not trained overnight and the issues with mentoring heavily delayed the training up of new members of the driving grade and that isn't fixed overnight as they don't just all magically start a few days later.

So is there any sort of idea when the drivers would be ready to go alone? I've no idea how long it takes or how far along they were before the disruption. I assume the mentoring is taking place without any hassle?

loyatemu · 01-11-2018 10:20am

It hasn't affected me personally but considering there's only a train to Greystones every 30 minutes and trains to Bray every 10, it's extra annoying that they are cancelling Greystones services to cover these issues. It leaves people waiting up to an hour for a train home.

Jamie2k9 · 01-11-2018 1:28pm

devnull wrote: »

The issue is not really about the total number of DART drivers, but obviously having more spare to cover for higher levels of staff who are not driving as regularly rostered for whatever reason, be it sickness, leave or other issues, would help.

Yeah I agree but I still wouldn't think all the cancellations are purely based on driver shortage.

GM228 · 01-11-2018 1:52pm

There are 3 issues at play for the daily cancellations - driver shortages, roster issues and an unusually high failure rate of late.

goingnowhere · 01-11-2018 2:15pm

Its mainly drivers, when you see trains terminating/starting at Clontarf Rd as part of the plan thats rostering.

end of the road · 01-11-2018 2:56pm

GM228 wrote: »

There are 3 issues at play for the daily cancellations - driver shortages, roster issues and an unusually high failure rate of late.

is it a specific unit type experiencing the high failure rate or is it a mix of types?

GM228 · 01-11-2018 9:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

is it a specific unit type experiencing the high failure rate or is it a mix of types?

Mix.

Infini · 01-11-2018 10:51pm

GM228 wrote: »

There are 3 issues at play for the daily cancellations - driver shortages, roster issues and an unusually high failure rate of late.

My guess is there isnt enough driver's available to cover these rosters as they either arent there, some are still not passed out to go alone and you got sicknesses and leave as well. Add in lack of spare driver's to take over and there's the reason for cancellations.

As for the failure rate to be fair the harder you push them the quicker they wear out and develop defects or other faults. Then you got miserable little feckers vandalising them as well and getting away with it because the legal system in this country is more about milking money rather than punishing regressive little feckers properly and it just all adds up.

Hilly Bill · 02-11-2018 12:05am

A few technical faults have resulted in some of the cancellations wich would have taken that set out of service so if it was due to do 4 runs for example then that's 4 cancellations.
A door fault was the last one i seen.

Jamie2k9 · 08-11-2018 10:28pm

Just two months to late but:

Separately, Irish Rail is also increasing capacity on four Dart services in each of the morning and evening peaks, which will be complete by the end of November.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-rail-to-operate-70-additional-dublin-commuter-services-a-day-37507223.html

Hilly Bill · 08-11-2018 11:17pm

It's not late, there was a timetable change due in December anyway. Maybe this is it.

Jamie2k9 · 08-11-2018 11:26pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's not late, there was a timetable change due in December anyway. Maybe this is it.

Again to late, there is zero changes to 10 munte DART in December.

uxiant · 08-11-2018 11:34pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Just two months to late but:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-rail-to-operate-70-additional-dublin-commuter-services-a-day-37507223.html

Capacity was already increased on morning DART services so they haven't been two months too late. These are further improvements.

Jamie2k9 · 09-11-2018 12:04am

uxiant wrote: »

Capacity was already increased on morning DART services so they haven't been two months too late. These are further improvements.

Again to late, they have had 8 weeks and are still not addressed the problems. Passengers still left behind daily.

ixoy · 09-11-2018 12:23am

uxiant wrote: »

Capacity was already increased on morning DART services so they haven't been two months too late. These are further improvements.

Where was this capacity change? I haven't seen it on southbound services - Daily people left behind at Harmonstown, Killester and Clontarf Road, which never happened prior to this idiotically handled time table change.

Wonder what services will get the extra capacity? Probably the southside...

end of the road · 09-11-2018 12:45am

ixoy wrote: »

Where was this capacity change? I haven't seen it on southbound services - Daily people left behind at Harmonstown, Killester and Clontarf Road, which never happened prior to this idiotically handled time table change.

Wonder what services will get the extra capacity? Probably the southside...

as far as i know there are no darts that stay on the south side, so both north and south will have to get it.

uxiant · 09-11-2018 12:52am

ixoy wrote: »

Where was this capacity change? I haven't seen it on southbound services - Daily people left behind at Harmonstown, Killester and Clontarf Road, which never happened prior to this idiotically handled time table change.

Wonder what services will get the extra capacity? Probably the southside...

I wonder what happens to these 8 carriage DARTs going northbound. Ditch half the carriages at the terminus before travelling southbound? Or how do these 8 carriage DARTs get to the southside...

(And by the way people are left on platforms travelling northbound too)

ixoy · 09-11-2018 12:59am

uxiant wrote: »

I wonder what happens to these 8 carriage DARTs going northbound. Ditch half the carriages at the terminus before travelling southbound? Or how do these 8 carriage DARTs get to the southside...

You know what I mean - the longer DARTs should be those that hit the city centre between 8:30 - 09:00 as that's when many people need to be in work.
So let's take a train that arrives in Tara Street at 08:19. It gets to Howth at 08:48 so by the time it goes back northbound, it's too late - the peak period is over.

I've been monitoring Irish Rail's Twitter account and I've never seen any complaints about people being left behind travelling Northbound. Is it a daily occurrence but they're just not mentioning it?

uxiant · 09-11-2018 12:59am

Capacity has actually increased throughout the DART network (perhaps it hasn't on the spurs to Howth and Malahide where obviously the frequency has to drop?) - so it's strange that so many are left behind on platforms going north and south.

Has the improved frequency drove up passenger numbers? Or were things just as bad before the timetable changes (I used to go to work later so missed the morning rush).

uxiant · 09-11-2018 1:08am

ixoy wrote: »

You know what I mean - the longer DARTs should be those that hit the city centre between 8:30 - 09:00 as that's when many people need to be in work.
So let's take a train that arrives in Tara Street at 08:19. It gets to Howth at 08:48 so by the time it goes back northbound, it's too late - the peak period is over.

I've been monitoring Irish Rail's Twitter account and I've never seen any complaints about people being left behind travelling Northbound. Is it a daily occurrence but they're just not mentioning it?

I've seen plenty of 8 carriage northbound DARTs at around 5pm so I find it very hard to believe they are deliberately putting all the 8 carriage DARTs northbound to hit the city centre at 8.30-9am...

And anyway the 8.15 from Dun Laoghaire is only 6 carriages so that's one of those 8.30-9am DARTs that's not 8 carriages.

Yes I've been left at the platform in Dun Laoghaire before and I've noticed people left behind at places like Blackrock, Booterstown, Sandymount etc. But it's not something I pay attention to every day.

ixoy · 09-11-2018 1:10am

uxiant wrote: »

Has the improved frequency drove up passenger numbers? Or were things just as bad before the timetable changes (I used to go to work later so missed the morning rush).

Things are *significantly* worse now. I've used Killester station for eight years and, barring any disruptions, always got on a carriage at any time between 8 and 9. The very week they changed it, that started to stop - difficult to get on any train after 08:15 often.
There was no surge in customers - sure, schools were back but they were back every year before then too and none of this happened so it's unlikely they suddenly had a 20% increase in a few days coincidentally when they changed a time table.

What was easily observable is the shorter trains. That and the frequency at rush hour is no better really - for example, there was a train at 07:57, 08:02, 08:17, 08:24 IIRC. They weren't four carriage trains either. Now it's 07:57, 08:07, 08:17 and 08:27, i.e. *less frequent* and a number of these are short. So they ran the same number of trains over this period previously (if oddly spread out - but people knew the time table anyway) but they had more capacity. That, coupled with commuter trains no longer absorbing many passengers on the Malahide spur (particularly Portmarnock), has made it a mess.

uxiant wrote:

Yes I've been left at the platform in Dun Laoghaire before and I've noticed people left behind at places like Blackrock, Booterstown, Sandymount etc. But it's not something I pay attention to every day.

But if it was happening every couple of days, you'd definitely notice it...

And no, I haven't had issues in the evening but then I leave a bit later so perhaps I just generally miss that rush.

goingnowhere · 09-11-2018 7:23am

uxiant wrote: »

I've seen plenty of 8 carriage northbound DARTs at around 5pm so I find it very hard to believe they are deliberately putting all the 8 carriage DARTs northbound to hit the city centre at 8.30-9am...

And anyway the 8.15 from Dun Laoghaire is only 6 carriages so that's one of those 8.30-9am DARTs that's not 8 carriages.

At Dun Laoghaire this is the spread, and its clear the bulk of the 8 coach units are on the northside

0755 is 8
0805 is 6
0815 is 6
0825 is 8?
0835 is 6
0845 is 4

The problem is passenger numbers are up and noticeably so, the volume of school kids is incredible, the bank of mammy and daddy can no longer afford several cars and we have kids traveling for considerable distances and incredible cheap fares taking up capacity. Throw mid term break in and there is a chance of a seat on almost every train out of Dun Laoghaire

marieholmfan · 09-11-2018 10:36am

Make it clear when selling schoolchild fares and leap cards that seats must be given up to adults immediately unless the child has a registered disability and enforce that.

Like most Irish problems this timetabling issue could be quickly solved by the reintroduction of flogging (but that will never happen).

goingnowhere wrote: »

At Dun Laoghaire this is the spread, and its clear the bulk of the 8 coach units are on the northside

0755 is 8
0805 is 6
0815 is 6
0825 is 8?
0835 is 6
0845 is 4

The problem is passenger numbers are up and noticeably so, the volume of school kids is incredible, the bank of mammy and daddy can no longer afford several cars and we have kids traveling for considerable distances and incredible cheap fares taking up capacity. Throw mid term break in and there is a chance of a seat on almost every train out of Dun Laoghaire

Conchir · 09-11-2018 10:58am

marieholmfan wrote: »

Make it clear when selling schoolchild fares and leap cards that seats must be given up to adults immediately unless the child has a registered disability and enforce that.

Like most Irish problems this timetabling issue could be quickly solved by the reintroduction of flogging (but that will never happen).

Well it took eight years, but I’ve finally decided to add a name to my ignore list on Boards.

loyatemu · 09-11-2018 11:09am

consultation on the December timetable (minor changes mostly, plus off-peak Tunnel services) now open:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/december2018timetable

I see IR are also looking for a "Director of Train Operations"

Colonel Claptrap · 09-11-2018 6:20pm

Irish Rail have capitulated and reinstated diesel services to Clongriffin, Howth Jct and Portmarnock.

Not all, mind you, but a step in the right direction.

Decuc500 · 10-11-2018 12:49am

uxiant wrote: »

I've seen plenty of 8 carriage northbound DARTs at around 5pm so I find it very hard to believe they are deliberately putting all the 8 carriage DARTs northbound to hit the city centre at 8.30-9am...

And anyway the 8.15 from Dun Laoghaire is only 6 carriages so that's one of those 8.30-9am DARTs that's not 8 carriages.

Yes I've been left at the platform in Dun Laoghaire before and I've noticed people left behind at places like Blackrock, Booterstown, Sandymount etc. But it's not something I pay attention to every day.

I get northbound darts at Pearse every evening and there are no 8 carriage trains around 5pm. There's one to Malahide at 5:17 and it's the first 8 carriage dart going north since 4:27. There are several to Bray in this period. As these 8 carriage trains to Bray leave Pearse they are only half full. Very bad and easy to fix train management from IR.

Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

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