Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

Deviso

8:14 from Clongriffin is fine capacity rise. I'm between Clontarf and Clongriffin right now, plenty of room. Just running a bit late.

ohnonotgmail

Deviso wrote: »

8:14 from Clongriffin is fine capacity rise. I'm between Clontarf and Clongriffin right now, plenty of room. Just running a bit late.

I was on the dart right before that one. only four carriages. packed in like sardines from harmonstown. people in killester left on the platform though one or two did manage to squeeze on.

Zulu

Deviso wrote: »

8:14 from Clongriffin is fine capacity rise. I'm between Clontarf and Clongriffin right now, plenty of room. Just running a bit late.

I got on the 7:55 at Portmarnock - just.

Clongriffin was a sh1t show. Plenty of people left behind.

ixoy

How likely are Irish Rail to revert to the previous timetable? Clearly, this isn't working for rush hour on the Northside. Can any pressure be put on them or could they just ignore us. Their arrogance means I would hardly be surprised if they said nothing.

Sam Russell

ixoy wrote: »

How likely are Irish Rail to revert to the previous timetable? Clearly, this isn't working for rush hour on the Northside. Can any pressure be put on them or could they just ignore us. Their arrogance means I would hardly be surprised if they said nothing.

They appear to be short of rolling stock. The solution to which is not open to them in the short term, so they must stretch what they have by using short trains. It appears that they are not doing a very good job of that.

They also appear to have a congestion problem at Connolly, and a problem with the late arrival of the previous train (whichever train that was).

Splitting trains sets on the fly would be an approach but one that they are not prepared to entertain. A Dart train that leaves Bray does not return for two and a half hours which more than covers the rush period in the morning and in the evening. There is no simple solution to that if trains cannot be configured with passengers aboard. There is no facility in Howth or Malahide to reconfigure, either personnel or sidings.

loyatemu

obviously a minor complaint compared to not being able to get on the train, but every journey is a crawl. Sitting between stations, sitting at platforms for minutes at a time with the doors open. Yesterday as we were sitting outside GCD station the driver announced the delay was due to a "backlog of trains", the exact problem the slowing down of journey times was supposed to fix. It's almost as if IÉ don't know what they're doing.

ixoy

Sam Russell wrote: »

ixoy wrote: »

How likely are Irish Rail to revert to the previous timetable? Clearly, this isn't working for rush hour on the Northside. Can any pressure be put on them or could they just ignore us. Their arrogance means I would hardly be surprised if they said nothing.

They appear to be short of rolling stock. The solution to which is not open to them in the short term, so they must stretch what they have by using short trains. It appears that they are not doing a very good job of that.

So since these short trains aren't sufficient and since they've apparently no more to use, can we expect them to fold and admit it's not feasible? It clearly isn't. In eight years of using Killester I've never seen the hassle like the last two weeks where people miss multiple trains. There's obviously reduced capacity compared to the old timetable.

thomasj

If there is any silver lining out of the debacle of the new timetable, the PPT trains and the 10 minute DART frequency, it shows how desperately in need, we are of the DART Underground tunnel.

Now if only our local and government politicans could start pushing this case for us!

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

obviously a minor complaint compared to not being able to get on the train, but every journey is a crawl. Sitting between stations, sitting at platforms for minutes at a time with the doors open. Yesterday as we were sitting outside GCD station the driver announced the delay was due to a "backlog of trains", the exact problem the slowing down of journey times was supposed to fix. It's almost as if IÉ don't know what they're doing.

ixoy wrote: »

So since these short trains aren't sufficient and since they've apparently no more to use, can we expect them to fold and admit it's not feasible? It clearly isn't. In eight years of using Killester I've never seen the hassle like the last two weeks where people miss multiple trains. There's obviously reduced capacity compared to the old timetable.

How can a more frequent service give rise to a reduction in capacity?

It can only be due to poor scheduling of carriages, or some form of industrial action (or inaction).

ted1

Sam Russell wrote: »

How can a more frequent service give rise to a reduction in capacity?

It can only be due to poor scheduling of carriages, or some form of industrial action (or inaction).

Or an Increse in passengers.

A 4 carriage dart every 10 minutes will carry the same amount of people as a 8 carriage one ever 20.

Rather than going backwards people should just adopt to the new schedule. I think it’s great and am more likely to use the service.

Cloudio9

marieholmfan wrote: »

Seems like a perfectly adequate service. It is regularity of service that matters not timetabling.

I mean practically every train is now late to the city centre typically 20% longer than timetable even after journey times were lengthened with the new timetable.

While delays were common on the old timetable they weren’t universal.

thomasj

ted1 wrote: »

Or an Increse in passengers.

A 4 carriage dart every 10 minutes will carry the same amount of people as a 8 carriage one ever 20.

Rather than going backwards people should just adopt to the new schedule. I think it’s great and am more likely to use the service.

A few things missing out in this point:

1 People from Portmarnock, clongriffin and Howth Junction, that would have used Commuter trains are now having to use DARTs. Thats an increase in demand.

2. There are 4 coach trains operating on both the Howth and Malahide branches that now have a 20 minute frequency. Whatever way you look at it, that coupled with the dropping of commuter trains is a REDUCTION IN CAPACITY for those 2 branches.

What is obvious is that the impact on those 2 lines are tricking down to stations on the main spine of the northside DART line and it is causing SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

ohnonotgmail

ted1 wrote: »

Or an Increse in passengers.

A 4 carriage dart every 10 minutes will carry the same amount of people as a 8 carriage one ever 20.

Rather than going backwards people should just adopt to the new schedule. I think it’s great and am more likely to use the service.

the only increase in passengers was caused by commuter trains no longer stopping at dart stations. Irish rail created this problem. And it is most definitely a problem. they need to fix it. I dont see why commuters should just suck it up and accept a service that calcutta would be ashamed of.

Decuc500

ted1 wrote: »

Or an Increse in passengers.

A 4 carriage dart every 10 minutes will carry the same amount of people as a 8 carriage one ever 20.

Rather than going backwards people should just adopt to the new schedule. I think it’s great and am more likely to use the service.

Spoken like a true Southsider. I'm kidding, but you obviously don't use the dart from the Northside in morning rush hour.

The problem is there are too many 4 carriage darts at 20 minute frequency up to Howth Junction a lot of the times. That's 20 minutes worth of passengers from Malahide or Howth. The mini dart is now full at HJ. Even 6 carriage trains are packed at this stage. No wonder. A dart every 20 minutes.

Then it's joined by 10 minutes worth of passengers after HJ. Now people can't get on at Killester (or even Harmonstown from reading twitter this morning).

It's been chaos every morning for the last 2 weeks. I'd say the worst overcrowding the dart service has ever experienced. I'd go so far as to say it's a disgraceful rush hour service. And it's being spun as a good thing.

Zulu

Lets not forget that an over packed dart will take longer at the platform for passengers to alight - as they battle through the crammed carriage. It all adds up.

ixoy

Let's also recall that the frequency at rush hour wasn't just every 15 minutes. For example at Killester there was a train at 0757 then 0802, neither of which were four carriages. Now it's 0757 and then 0807 and fewer carriages.

You shouldn't have to get used to missing three trains in a row.

devnull

ixoy wrote: »

Let's also recall that the frequency at rush hour wasn't just every 15 minutes. For example at Killester there was a train at 0757 then 0802, neither of which were four carriages. Now it's 0757 and then 0807 and fewer carriages..

Well some people such as those souls living in Clongriffin in the old timetable had to wait 30 minutes between services even at rush hour and the previously mentioned 40 minute gap in Malahide DARTs in evening peak which led to both the one before the gap and directly after the gap, leaving people behind on a regular basis.

Kh1993

Dart took 47 minutes today to get from howth Junction to Pearse. “Operational failure” they say.

But yay, better frequency by 5 mins!!

Kh1993

I wonder if the pro-frequency people actually use the northside darts during peak times. Because I’m pretty sure the majority of passengers would revert back to the certainty of 2 weeks ago

Over the last two weeks my journey from platform to platform has been at best 5 minutes longer and at worst 35 minutes longer. The capacity isn’t there, the track and paths just aren’t there, the choice isn’t there (commuters) and the certainty of will I get into work isn’t there. It’s unacceptable. I posted similar on the first day of this cock up and was told suck it up basically for a few weeks. Well we have, and it’s no better. There has been zero improvement.

marieholmfan

Kh1993 wrote: »

I wonder if the pro-frequency people actually use the northside darts during peak times. Because I’m pretty sure the majority of passengers would revert back to the certainty of 2 weeks ago

Over the last two weeks my journey from platform to platform has been at best 5 minutes longer and at worst 35 minutes longer. The capacity isn’t there, the track and paths just aren’t there, the choice isn’t there (commuters) and the certainty of will I get into work isn’t there. It’s unacceptable. I posted similar on the first day of this cock up and was told suck it up basically for a few weeks. Well we have, and it’s no better. There has been zero improvement.

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

ThunbergsAreGo

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

What data?

What a silly time to do it as the students schools etc are back. Even if the commuter I get stopped at portmarnock, clongriffen, noone would fit on!!

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The 184 is only every half an hour.  The 84, while not as bad as it was...you are more likley to see a bald eagle than an 84 they are still infrequent enough.  You'd easily be waiting 30 min or more unless you were lucky enough to get an 84X.   Contrast that to the 145 every 10 min or the 46a where you could turn up anytime and not be waiting very long before one shows up.  Of course Delgany does not have the same population as Donnybrook or Stillorgan but it's not an easy service.  It's an akward as hell area to get out of and if you were trying to get to work and do so with enough flexibility built into the schedule so you're not constantly late, it would be very aggravating.
Cycling is all well and good but as many have pointed out before, those of us who have to go to work in a shirt and tie can't go there on the bike because not only would the weather (esp in winter) destroy you but on those roads it would not be a safe journey (it's not exactly cycle lane central).  Thinking myself, I hit the gym each morning before my college/work day starts and naturally since you're not working out right if you 're not breaking a sweat, and unlike most who use the gym I'm serious about it, I sweat quite a lot, so I shower afterwards.  I would then have to either shower again at work (whos workplace has one?) or sit in less comfort during the day.  I realize cycling at moderate pace would not exactly bucket you in sweat, and you could stopgap things with a few sprays of antipersperant but there would be enough that when it dries it would leave you shifty and uncomfortable. 
Most of us would start our day cleanly shaven and showered and feeling fresh and polished that feeling would be ruined by a cycle IMO
I realize only about 1% of the country do things like hit the gym before work at the crack of dawn, but I'm pointing out that for a lot of people there are complications that would not make every option available to them.
This is all before getting into the domino efffect the Rosslare train has on the DART....every ...SINGLE...F

---

KING DAY....EVERY SINGLE DAY without fail.

Or, conversely, the effect that the DART has on the Rosslare train?

end of the road

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

what data. can you link us to this data?
how does it prove that this is a better service for all commuters) when journey times have increased for all, trains on the dart are mostly shorter and people are being left behind by trains where once they wouldn't have been, or at least to a lot lesser extent?
how do you know the poster had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service, rather then his actual experience on the ground showing that the older timetable worked better?
how do you know that a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner when the actual existing evidence says otherwise?
the higher frequency has been implemented, trains have got slower. trains have got shorter. the facts on the ground prove that this timetable isn't able to work to the full. your statements so far are not backed up by the evidence on the ground.

Ohmeha

Kh1993 wrote: »

I wonder if the pro-frequency people actually use the northside darts during peak times. Because I’m pretty sure the majority of passengers would revert back to the certainty of 2 weeks ago

Over the last two weeks my journey from platform to platform has been at best 5 minutes longer and at worst 35 minutes longer. The capacity isn’t there, the track and paths just aren’t there, the choice isn’t there (commuters) and the certainty of will I get into work isn’t there. It’s unacceptable. I posted similar on the first day of this cock up and was told suck it up basically for a few weeks. Well we have, and it’s no better. There has been zero improvement.

Yep, my regular northside/southbound DART now consistently every day taking 5-7 minutes longer than the previous timetable (one minute differential in departure time with the new timetable)

Things are bad enough now with the new timetable, autumn leaf fall season around the corner is going to cause even more chaos and cross the limits of what's left of commuter's patience

Rashers72

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the only increase in passengers was caused by commuter trains no longer stopping at dart stations. Irish rail created this problem. And it is most definitely a problem. they need to fix it. I dont see why commuters should just suck it up and accept a service that calcutta would be ashamed of.

Just to remind u Northern Suburban line customers completely shafted in the new timetable. Some journeys now 40% longer. Most trains now only go to Connolly, we lost Pearse and Tara st where I reckon 2/3 of customers want to go. Wait times in Connolly for connecting Dart up to 15 mins. We crawl every day between Malahide and Connolly. And while local td's got behind a campaign to get IE to reverse decisions around Clongriffen and Portmarnock, we don't have tbe same political support north of Donabate, as the majority of commuters still drive....

ohnonotgmail

Rashers72 wrote: »

Just to remind u Northern Suburban line customers completely shafted in the new timetable. Some journeys now 40% longer. Most trains now only go to Connolly, we lost Pearse and Tara st where I reckon 2/3 of customers want to go. Wait times in Connolly for connecting Dart up to 15 mins. We crawl every day between Malahide and Connolly. And while local td's got behind a campaign to get IE to reverse decisions around Clongriffen and Portmarnock, we don't have tbe same political support north of Donabate, as the majority of commuters still drive....

Everybody north of the city has been shafted

ohnonotgmail

marieholmfan wrote: »

A few weeks are not over. The data PROVES that this is a better service for all commuters). You had become habituated and institutionalised to the old service but a new world of higher frequency and faster trains is just around the corner.

devnull

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Everybody north of the city has been shafted

Not everyone - there are groups of people who feel they have benefitted from this as I've explained earlier, but I admit that there are a bigger number who percieve the changes as being bad.

ixoy

devnull wrote: »

Not everyone - there are groups of people who feel they have benefitted from this as I've explained earlier, but I admit that there are a bigger number who percieve the changes as being bad.

A far far bigger number, let's be honest. The ones who benefit, like those who are those starting early at East Point which is nothing next to the thousands who are trying to get just get into town without being crushed, delayed, or not even boarding the damn train (and that includes Clongriffin sometimes it would seem!)

Since nobody on the Northern side is happy, what can be done to reverse the decision? Has anyone any clout? If they're not going to reverse, due to being stubborn, then can they at least get longer DARTs that can actually accommodate people? Swap a 4-carriage with an 8-carriage from the southside. We haven't heard a peep from them so presumably they can spare it.

end of the road

ixoy wrote: »

A far far bigger number, let's be honest. The ones who benefit, like those who are those starting early at East Point which is nothing next to the thousands who are trying to get just get into town without being crushed, delayed, or not even boarding the damn train (and that includes Clongriffin sometimes it would seem!)

Since nobody on the Northern side is happy, what can be done to reverse the decision? Has anyone any clout? If they're not going to reverse, due to being stubborn, then can they at least get longer DARTs that can actually accommodate people? Swap a 4-carriage with an 8-carriage from the southside. We haven't heard a peep from them so presumably they can spare it.

it's not as simple as taking an 8 car from the southside as the 8 car doesn't just stay on the south side but comes north. to take an 8 car from the south side you are going to have to terminate short, meaning you take capacity from them and in turn quite possibly cause there to be a capacity problem where one possibly doesn't exist currently.