International Men's Day 19th November

International Men's Day is spoken about more on International Women's day than it is any other day of the year - because so many ask when International Men's Day is. Yet, when someone tries to raise awareness of it, it gets more negative responses than positive.

I understand people get annoyed and frustrated by people using these days to look like they care without actually doing anything. I get fed up of hearing people pay lip service to mental health, and telling people to talk and seek help when the services aren't available. However I think talking about it might be something men need.

Earlier this year I worked on an ad campaign to promote a mental health service to men over 40. I also recently had a stand at a mental health event - some of the people were there because they were brought by their employers.

What I noticed is that the women were far more comfortable coming up to talk about their experiences, whereas the men were more likely to ask a question regarding helping a family member. I was talking to my dad about it afterwards and he said what I thought - if men are there with work colleagues many of them would feel too embarrassed to be seen to need help for their own mental wellbeing.

So, maybe talking about IMD is doing something. Maybe talking about it and the issues that impact men might make the men in your life feel a little bit less embarrassed, or a little more able to reach out. If someone dismisses the idea of IMD - it might come across that they are dismissive of issues affecting men in general. I don't believe that to be the case - but it just might be worth having that thought in the back of your mind if a man tries to talk about IMD to you this year. Your reaction really might make a difference to that person.

buckwheat wrote: »

What a load of steaming horse ****

Imo:)

Agreed.
A load of bollocks .
We dont need menstrual days and womens days...we have enough in Christmas and birthdays, let alone all the other shyte, valentines etc.

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think International Mens Day is a great idea.

Look people... it's not about gender wars or points scoring or being "woke" (whatever the hell that means) - it's about having a day where men's and boy's issues are highlighted and discussed. And men's mental health, suicide and health issues in general really need to be talked about.

You say all that JK, and I know you know well what woke means, no need to be disingenuous, you’re around Boards long enough to be aware that it’s been explained numerous times - it’s exactly what you’re doing above, and what you followed it up with is exactly why people are critical of the nonsense of these ideas like international men’s day and international women’s day and all the other days that are purported to be for their benefit.

JupiterKid wrote: »

I bet many of those posters dissing Intl Mens Day are the very same ones cribbing about how feminism has emasculated manhood and that men get a raw deal in life these days.

Sometimes us men are our own worst enemies...

Yeah, not about gender wars or point scoring you say? And then you come out with that crap about anyone who is critical of what you think is a great idea. It’s only a great idea because you get a bit of attention from your peers who think these days are a great idea too where you all get to pat yourselves on the back for how woke you are and how anyone who disagrees with you are only cribbing about feminism and men are their own worst enemies.

You really think anyone wants to listen to you tell them they’re their own worst enemy? Blindboy tried peddling that same craic on the Late Late and while the plastic bag on his bonce wasn’t transparent, his motivations for saying young men need feminism certainly were - it’s the kind of rhetoric that plays well with the social justice crowd. He needs that recognition because the young men he makes a living taking the the piss out of are sick of his shìt. Like everyone else he knows he has to pay the bills somehow, and for him punching down is how he does it for his new found champagne socialist audience, not unlike what you’re doing.

I don’t pretend to speak for anyone else and that’s how I see these “international days” - they’re not for the benefit of the people they claim to be benefiting at all, they’re for the benefit of people who want to appear as though they care about other people.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Yourself and the other poster seem awfully cross about these kinds of people.

Can ye not just ignore them?

I generally don’t have to ignore them as they only emerge when it’s coming up to the one day of the year when they want everyone to know they care. The rest of the year they stay within their own echo chambers smelling their own farts.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I can guarantee you the visibility of IMD will be of great benefit to those men who are at a low point and just may want to reach out.

No you can’t. You can’t guarantee anything because that guarantee would be based upon the assumption that men are somewhat of a hive mind. It might help some people, it might make other people who are at a low point and want to reach out, feel worse, and feel like they can’t reach out. There’s no way of guaranteeing any outcome of anything.

If what you’re arguing were the case and you wanted to argue that IWD and IMD highlight issues like the rising suicide rates of self harm and suicide among children, women and men (as just one example of an issue common to these “international days”), then it would be reasonable to conclude we would see a decrease in these suicide rates among the various demographics. We’re not seeing a decrease, we’re seeing the rates increasing exponentially.

It would appear that these “international days” are having the complete opposite of their purported intent if you want to associate them with having an effect on the issues you claim they’re intended to address.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

So you remain friends with them and follow them on social media the rest of the year? Fair enough.

Dear God no, Boards and LinkedIn are the extent of anything I have to do with social media, I don’t want to know what anyone is promoting this week, or whatever the case may be as regards their online social justice advocacy. Frankly I generally don’t spend that much time talking about these things in my daily interactions with other people. Used to when I actually worked in social care, but not any more as it was doing my own mental health no favours working in that environment.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It would be crazy to think that IMD, the initiative, can suddenly reduce suicide rates in men. It can only really serve to highlight the issues and hopefully get people talking about them, which funnily enough, you and I are doing right now.

We’re not talking about the issues though, we’re talking about IMD and whether it does all that much to address the issues it’s proponents are advocating for. I don’t think it does, and there is no evidence to suggest that it does anything of the sort of claims you’re making. People are aware of these issues already because people are living with them. That might seem like I’m stating the obvious but all too often the idea seems to be more concerned with highlighting issues, and no acknowledgement of the fact that just being a decent person is one way of addressing a multitude of these issues. In effect - practice what you preach.

The point being that for all the talk about these issues, that talking doesn’t appear to translate into action. It’s as though people care more about how they are perceived on social media as opposed to actually having to interact with people experiencing the issues they advocate for. It’s a bit like JupiterKids earlier observation that apparently men are their own worst enemy. I don’t see that as particularly helpful as it suggests that JupiterKid knows what’s better for men than actually having to listen to what men are saying. Most men in my experience simply cannot relate to feminism in it’s current incarnation. It’s not any fear of emasculation, it’s simply that it makes no sense to them. They’re not alone, it makes about as much sense to me too as IMD.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I can guarantee that the visibility of IMD will help men reach out or a lest consider seeking help. I see no harm in it.

My issue with what you’re saying is that you appear to be exaggerating the effect of the phenomenon as though it’s self-fulfilling. My view is more nuanced than that - it might make some men reach out, it might make some men and women feel worse about themselves. For the vast majority of people though, the evidence is that these days make not one iota of a difference in their lives. They don’t talk about the issues you wish they would talk about from your perspective, as they’re generally too busy trying to keep their heads above water in their own lives to have time to concern themselves with anyone else’s life or any of these social issues that a minority of people care about. Their concerns are more immediate and more closer to home than thinking about international social justice issues.

That being said, the only reason I see no harm in IMD is because I don’t think too many people have any interest in it in the first place, any more than they have any interest in the fact that it’s also the day I was born.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This all smacks of outrage just for the sake of it TBH. I couldn't give a toss if Mary or Sean share a bollocks inspirational quote on FB or whatever or change their frame to IMD to garner likes; all I care about is that the day itself hammers home the message that there is help out there if you wish to avail of it and that you are not alone.

I don’t care about any of that stuff either, and I’m certainly not prone to outrage. No, my issue is with people who latch on to every cause trending on social media who appear to be more interested in advertising thermselves, as opposed to advertising the cause they’re advocating for this week. Next week it’ll be something else. That’s the point. I couldn’t care less generally, but when it comes up on Boards, I’ll give my opinion on how ineffective these days actually appear to be, and contrary to El_D’s belief - the only capitalising that appears to be going on is self-promotion, as opposed to any interest in the people experiencing the issues these people are using to promote themselves.

The reality is of course that most people are dealing with these issues on a daily basis as opposed to needing them highlighted on any particular day of the year, or a whole week, or a whole month promoting these issues. Everyone is already doing what they can to make people’s lives better for the people they care about. They don’t need to be told they’re their own worst enemy, because that’s a shìtty thing to say to anyone IMO.

Raconteuse wrote: »

Really no need for that.

I am glad an effort is being made to highlight what men have to deal with and which sometimes gets forgotten about because men are expected to take it on the chin.

It was in response to this -

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Apologies. It winds me up when people oppose obviously good initiatives like IMD.

It was absolutely necessary IMO to point out that El_D has little to be getting worked up about if that’s what gets him worked up. I’m not opposed to obviously good initiatives at all. I just wouldn’t categorise IMD, nor any of these “international days” as an obviously good initiative.

Having to deal with idiots who accuse them of being threatened by feminism is something men have to endure too, but thankfully only one day a year :pac:

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. Very clever. I see what you did. And you don't see IMD as a good initiative. Fair enough.

You know others see it as a good initiative so Why do you want to talk it down?

I’ll answer your question by addressing your next post, and perhaps you will understand why I don’t care for IMD the same way you appear to, and why I don’t agree with you that IMD is the good initiative you claim it is.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Some of these same posters will be back on other threads talking about what a disgrace it is that nothing is being done about x y and x. And when there's a guilt edged opportunity to talk about those things, they show they have absolutely no Interest.

You’re mistaking people’s lack of interest in talking about things the way you want to talk about things, for a lack of interest in talking about things which they care about. Take a minute next time to really listen with the intent of wanting to offer help, and you’ll discover that while 90% of what they’re saying is still complete shìte talk, it’s the 10% you weren’t hearing before which you’re now hearing, is the real cause of their distress and discomfort. They’re not talking about how stressed out they are and how their mental health is suffering and all the rest of it, their concerns are for being able to meet the mortgage payments or employment uncertainty or being able to provide for their families. An opportunity to talk about the things you want to talk about is of fcukall use to anyone who isn’t you, frankly. Don’t get me wrong, I know your heart is in the right place and all, but it seems as though you want to sell IMD because it means something to you, and your frustration comes from the fact that other people aren’t interested in buying what you’re selling because they don’t see your amazing product the same way you do.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They know the media is going to cover IMD and the initiatives on the day. So they can use that captive media to tell people en masse about those issues that they say concern them. But in practice they don't want to do anything and are happy to talk down IMD. By doing so they reduces the chances of spreading the I do on the topics that they say they care about.

The media covers what people talk about already. It also covers what you talk about already. It covers these topics according to how much people are talking about them. People are talking about plenty more than just mental health, because they have far more important immediate concerns than mental health or all the other issues you think people need their consciousness raised about. In practice, people are doing what they can to help themselves and the people they care about. Only a small number of people are interested in social justice advocacy in the same way as only a small number of people are interested in education, welfare, healthcare, etc. Most people in any given society, as I suggested earlier, have more immediate concerns like providing for their families, gaining and maintaining maintaining employment, y’know, concerns about the future of the economy as it pertains to them, are prioritised over concerns about the future of the environment and so on. Social justice advocacy? Well, not many people want to talk about it because it’s just not something they’re interested in. It’s something you’re interested in. I’ve always been more interested in being active in my community and trying to make people’s lives better in the long term as opposed to just giving them a platform in the media for one day of the year and then ignoring them for the rest of the year because I’ve moved on to the next cause that’s trending on social media. I tend to base my principles on the serenity prayer, and one doesn’t have to be religious to understand the sentiment, it can still be applied in a non-religious context -


God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.


Basically, raising people’s consciousness is one way of convincing yourself you’re doing something at least to address the issues you care about. But it isn’t actually doing anything to alleviate the suffering of the people who are experiencing those issues which you care about. Sharing and liking shìte on social media promotes said shìte, but it does nothing to address the underlying causes of those issues or alleviate the suffering caused to people as a consequence of the actual underlying cause of the issue. You’re effectively only treating the symptoms of the disease while trying to pass it off as a cure. Charlatans and snake-oil salespeople use similar strategies to sell their products, or their ideals. There’s always a few people are desperate enough to try anything which they are convinced will alleviate their suffering or offer them what they’re looking for. Those are the people for whom IMD offers an appealing opportunity, but in reality is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think IMD is a great opportunity to get that info out to people who don't have it. The people on boards who chat about this stuff regularly, know the issues. The average person doesn't talk about this stuff at all. So when they listen to the radio or watch the news on IMD they can get some new info.

See you’re starting from the assumption that people don’t already have the information you’re selling. They do! People are bombarded with it on a daily basis. Young people are bombarded with it to an even greater extent because they are the captive audience in schools, they can’t avoid being exposed to it. I have argued that the constant exposure to mental health advocacy actually creates and exacerbates the anxieties in young people it claims to offer solutions to. You’ve effectively created the problem, and you just so happen to also have the solution.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How many people know boys are falling behind girls in education?
How many know about the stats on suicide?
How many know about the trouble good men experience trying to be a father to their children after their marriage breaks up?

These are some of the real life issues and I think IMD has potential to spread some really needed info. So you can talk it up or talk it down.

Spreading info about IMD only spreads info about IMD, that one day of the year when people pretend they give a shìte about addressing the issues you’ve highlighted above. In reality those issues are experienced by the average person 365 days of the year, and talking about IMD is not the same thing at all as actually taking any action to address the issues you have identified. People know about the issues you’ve highlighted, they are aware of the issues you’ve highlighted, but they just don’t have time to sit around and talk about the issues you’ve highlighted in the way you want them to talk about the issues you’ve highlighted, because they have other more important issues to them, on their minds. Rather than telling people they need to listen to you, I use a different approach - I listen to what people are actually telling me, and work with them as opposed to telling them they’re mean because they won’t listen to my ideas for them, or that they’re their own worst enemy, or any of the rest of that crap which demands people listen to you as you’re offering the solution to their problems, or at least what you have identified as their problem, from your perspective, informed by your own unwillingness to listen to people who don’t share your beliefs or ideas.

Tom Cruise would be of the opinion Scientology is a great idea and helps lots of people too. He would say the same thing of me talking down Scientology. I view IMD, IWD and the creation of a mental health cult in the same way as I do Scientology or Feminism or a whole host of ideologies. I’m critical of them because they create a problem, and then claim to offer solutions to the problems they have identified, essentially promoting themselves by perpetuating themselves, identical to the self-serving way in which Ponzi schemes work.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So you talk it down because I haven't focused on the things you want to highlight.

You’re still not listening.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. Will we move on?

It’s probably for the best