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Liege

  • 29-05-2018 10:50am
    #1
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    TWO POLICE OFFICERS have been shot dead in the Belgian city of Liege.
    A gunman also shot a bystander and two other people have been wounded.
    Public broadcaster RTBF is reporting that the man is now dead.
    It said the gunman fled the scene, taking a cleaning woman hostage at a nearby school, but he was later “neutralised”.


    http://www.thejournal.ie/two-police-officers-shot-belguim-4042041-May2018/


    Latest reports indicating he took the gun from one of the officers before shooting them both and a bystander. All three dead.


«13456

Comments

  • #2
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Yet another shooting in Belgium,

    2 police dead, 2 bystanders dead!

    Will they never learn that Integration Does Not Work???

    History has proven time and again that there are Too many cultural differences between North Western Celtic nations and the Arab/North African nations for integration to work properly!


    Opinions please?


  • #3
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    It seems to me from the reading of it that the hostage situation took place after he had killed the policemen and bystander. So, I don't know - did the person just grab a gun out of a police man's holster and start shooting? Crazy to think.


  • #4
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    cfuserkildare wrote: »

    Opinions please?

    Yeah, I wonder what your opinion is when a school shooting happens, do you blame immigration then too?


  • #5
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Yet another shooting in Belgium,

    2 police dead, 2 bystanders dead!

    Will they never learn that Integration Does Not Work???

    History has proven time and again that there are Too many cultural differences between North Western Celtic nations and the Arab/North African nations for integration to work properly!


    Opinions please?

    I dont remember bombings and shootings in Tooting SW London in the late 80s and early 90s, when you had a mix of White English and Irish, Black, Muslims, Pakistani, etc, etc, where you had a Mosque, a Synagogue, a Catholic, and CoE Church, all within a 10 minute walk of wach other.

    Intergration can work, where people have repect with each others cultures. The problem is now, people want you to feel alienated, and offended, just because of the actions of a few.


  • #6
    Joey Ripe Vapidity
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Joey Ripe Vapidity


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Yeah, I wonder what your opinion is when a school shooting happens, do you blame immigration then too?

    Even when it's not the foreigners, it's the foreigners.

    We should have a thread about the Mali migrant who got citizenship for saving a child


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  • #7
    Weepsie
    Site Banned Posts: 20,686 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Yet another shooting in Belgium,

    2 police dead, 2 bystanders dead!

    Will they never learn that Integration Does Not Work???

    History has proven time and again that there are Too many cultural differences between North Western Celtic nations and the Arab/North African nations for integration to work properly!


    Opinions please?

    Belgium is a vastly multicultural country and has been for some time. You're talking nonsense


  • #8
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    It is low blood sugar season after all.
    Took long, this year


    Edit:

    "Known" to the police
    Released from jail yesterday.
    Allegedly shouting the usual fairy iin the sky is so great message.


  • #9
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    Intergration can work, where people have repect with each others cultures. The problem is now, people want you to feel alienated, and offended, just because of the actions of a few.

    Wahhabism does not encourage respect of others, it does not want to integrate with Jews, Hindus etc.

    A generation of people with a low skill set and education are being taught that, their religion means everyone else should get on their knees, or else..


  • #10
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    Yet another shooting in Belgium,

    2 police dead, 2 bystanders dead!

    Will they never learn that Integration Does Not Work???

    History has proven time and again that there are Too many cultural differences between North Western Celtic nations and the Arab/North African nations for integration to work properly!


    Opinions please?

    You show no concern for the victims or their families;? just sensationalising?


  • #11
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    It seems that a certain subset of posters, pretty much jump to there agenda any time this kind of thing happens, and if it turns out there wrong, they will either disappear or double down on being wrong.


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  • #12
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Speaking as someone who has admittedly quite conservative views on migration, I have to ask is it that hard to wait until details come out before jumping into particular arguments. One of two things has happened;

    1. Its not terror related, in which case jumping onto the issue makes you look like an irrational one trick nut.

    2. It is terror related, in which case you can still make your argument but you cant be accused of junping to conclusions.

    Also, while Im here, if it turns out to be a banal act of criminality or a "home grown" terrorist, try to avoid the schadenfreude of "see it happens to everyone". It just looks smug and tacky.


  • #13
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭weisses


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Belgium is a vastly multicultural country and has been for some time. You're talking nonsense

    Multiculturalism doesn't automatically mean proper integration ... as is evidenced in all major European cities


  • #14
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Wahhabism does not encourage respect of others, it does not want to integrate with Jews, Hindus etc.

    A generation of people with a low skill set and education are being taught that, their religion means everyone else should get on their knees, or else..

    Who do we blame for that though. Even now, in the 2010s, I would still happily walk down the same Tooting High Street, and do most times I am over, without any fear. People want you to be scared, if you are scared, their agenda is working.


  • #15
    Kolido
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,421 ✭✭✭✭Kolido


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Even when it's not the foreigners, it's the foreigners.

    We should have a thread about the Mali migrant who got citizenship for saving a child


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057876631


  • #16
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    I'm gonna be really blunt here and horribly insensitive - but what the f*ck?

    Honestly, look at the difference between reactions here when it's a school shooting by a white male and a shooting done by an immigrant* who "failed to integrate"?

    They are both crimes, done by sick, sick individuals and there is absolutely no need or reason to push personal racial agendas on the matter.

    Literally all threads like this somehow end up extreme Muslim bashing whereas there's nowhere near the amount of vitriol when it's a young school shooter off his rocker in the US?


  • #17
    Joey Ripe Vapidity
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Joey Ripe Vapidity


    Kolido wrote: »
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057876631

    Ah, brilliant. Cheers


  • #18
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    Who do we blame for that though. Even now, in the 2010s, I would still happily walk down the same Tooting High Street, and do most times I am over, without any fear. People want you to be scared, if you are scared, their agenda is working.

    Saudi Arabia is paying people a living wage to attend particular mosques in parts of the former Yugoslavia and the Balkans. A strong incentive in typically very very poor communities.

    Spain, the Middle Ages, Muslims, Jews, Christians could live alongside each other because the commercial dynamic was different, they, typically, depended on each other for aspects of life their religion forbade. This is no longer the case.

    EDIT: Attacks are overwhelmingly a 'Sunni problem' too.


  • #19
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Must be an absolute nightmare trying to run an armed robbery business in France and Belgium in the current climate


  • #20
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,665 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    eat a snackbar you're not yourself when you're hungry

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #21
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,116 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    An aśśhole with a gun is an aśśhole with a gun.

    He can claim religion as the motivation, or he can claim his boss was a prick and that made him do it, or he could have been spurned by some woman.

    His main reason is that he is an aśśhole.


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  • #22
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭weisses


    Killer is Bejamin Herman ... Belgium national

    On leave from prison

    Its reported He radicalized in prison where he was held for non terror crime


  • #23
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Rabs on the rampage, sponsored by (((gods chosen people))).


  • #24
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    tomofson wrote: »
    Rabs on the rampage, sponsored by (((gods chosen people))).

    Stay classy.


  • #25
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_l-auteur-de-la-fusillade-a-liege-etait-en-conge-penitentiaire-depuis-lundi?id=9930716 (translated)
    Benjamin Herman, from Rochefort, was 36 years old (born in 1982). He was well known to the police for theft, damage to public property and small drug trafficking. The offender was found to be very violent and was sentenced, among other things, for drug trafficking.

    His psychological profile was considered "unstable". A "difficult" youth is evoked. He had no contact with his family.

    Reported for another fact on the night of Monday to Tuesday. Last night he allegedly committed a crime in the province of Luxembourg.

    The shooting in Liege follows a police check that went wrong. The man allegedly used a cutter and seized the weapon of one of the two policemen.


  • #26
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Wahhabism The user Amalgam does not encourage respect of others, it does not want to integrate with Jews, Hindus etc.

    Fixed your post. there was a subtext that was going unsaid.


  • #27
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Stay classy.

    Stay sleeping.


  • #28
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Grayson wrote: »
    Fixed your post. there was a subtext that was going unsaid.

    Keep being an apologist. The AGS are keeping you safe as I type.

    I went to a College with a Jewish curriculum, I have no problem with Hindus. Cheers.


  • #29
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    tomofson wrote: »
    Stay sleeping.

    Fancy throwing out sheeple now, or do you want to save that one for later on?


  • #30
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,116 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Billy86 wrote: »
    https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_l-auteur-de-la-fusillade-a-liege-etait-en-conge-penitentiaire-depuis-lundi?id=9930716 (translated)

    Ok Mods. Close this one down and chalk it up to yet another alleged but subsequently unproven case of "multiculturalism won't work".

    We await to do it all again when someone else jumps the gun on another incident in Europe or the US. (no morbid pun intended).


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  • #31
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,116 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Keep being an apologist. The AGS are keeping you safe as I type.

    I went to a College with a Jewish curriculum, I have no problem with Hindus. Cheers.

    Ah - the old "I'm not racist, I've a mate that's black" defence. Gotcha ;)


  • #32
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Fancy throwing out sheeple now, or do you want to save that one for later on?

    You already know exactly what you are I needn't say no more.

    Hope you enjoy your cheque from tel aviv university. How much are they paying each hasbara these days?


  • #33
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Ah - the old "I'm not racist, I've a mate that's black" defence. Gotcha ;)

    No, not really. A sizeable amount of people involved in attacks are white and, 'recent converts', the issues surrounding terrorist activity are complicated. The idea that you can even broach the subject without tackling the thorny issues of questioning how a religion perceives others and educates to hate others, well, you'll get nowhere.


  • #34
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Amalgam wrote: »
    No, not really. A sizeable amount of people involved in attacks are white and, 'recent converts', the issues surrounding terrorist activity are complicated. The idea that you can even broach the subject without tackling the thorny issues of questioning how a religion perceives others and educates to hate others, well, you'll get nowhere.

    A "sizable amount" are far from "white".

    Islam isn't the only religious extremism you are not allowed to tackle on (((boards.ie)))


  • #35
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    tomofson wrote: »
    You already know exactly what you are I needn't say no more.

    Hope you enjoy your cheque from tel aviv university. How much are they paying each hasbara these days?

    If any of the hasbara are watching I would like to claim 5 years in back pay, gold, diamonds, euros, all acceptable.


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    everlast75 wrote: »
    An aśśhole with a gun is an aśśhole with a gun.

    He can claim religion as the motivation, or he can claim his boss was a prick and that made him do it, or he could have been spurned by some woman.

    His main reason is that he is an aśśhole.

    The difference between random school shootings in the US and this is possibility of a Yugoslavia or Lebanon type end result much much further down the line. We are ignoring the early warning signs. This could be for our grandchildren or their children even but its not worth the risk.


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  • #37
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Keep being an apologist. The AGS are keeping you safe as I type.

    I went to a College with a Jewish curriculum, I have no problem with Hindus. Cheers.

    Yet you're picking what is a minority cult within in islam, wahhabism, and using it to slander an entire religion. You're also claiming integration doesn't work because of that tiny minority. This is despite people showing you that there are many european cities where it works. And showing you that muslims weren't blowing people up.

    The simple fact is that, whatever school you went to, they didn't teach you what inductive reasoning is. Or deductive for that matter. You use logic which can't be extended beyond your very narrow world view. You use arguments for one religion which you wouldn't apply to others. You have a bias which is clouding your ability to come to rational conclusions.

    As for calling me an apologist? How am I one? I've never defended a terrorist. I've never said that violence is right. So how am I an apologist? Is it because I say that not all muslims are terrorists? that's true. Is it because I say it's wrong to label a whole group because of the actions of a few, actions they don't condone or have control over? that's true too. But at no point have I ever excused the actions of a terrorist.


  • #38
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,862 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    We got a name.


    Benjamin Herman. 36 years of age.

    And oh, radicalised in prison which he left yesterday.

    Attacked 2 female police officers from behind with a knife after which he got their guns and shot them.
    After that he killed a 25 year male in a car., took a woman hostage, injured 4 more police after which he was finally dealt with.

    And here he is with the guns:

    1e02d4fb042c4086c967cf6f0bb1f249.png


  • #39
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Grayson wrote: »
    Yet you're picking what is a minority cult within in islam, wahhabism, and using it to slander an entire religion. You're also claiming integration doesn't work because of that tiny minority. This is despite people showing you that there are many european cities where it works. And showing you that muslims weren't blowing people up.

    The simple fact is that, whatever school you went to, they didn't teach you what inductive reasoning is. Or deductive for that matter. You use logic which can't be extended beyond your very narrow world view. You use arguments for one religion which you wouldn't apply to others. You have a bias which is clouding your ability to come to rational conclusions.

    As for calling me an apologist? How am I one? I've never defended a terrorist. I've never said that violence is right. So how am I an apologist? Is it because I say that not all muslims are terrorists? that's true. Is it because I say it's wrong to label a whole group because of the actions of a few, actions they don't condone or have control over? that's true too. But at no point have I ever excused the actions of a terrorist.

    I picked out Wahhabism because *that* is the problem, not being a Muslim, you're choosing to filter what I'm posting, to suit your pigeonholing needs.

    Pot, kettle.


  • #40
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Not the first time an attack of this sort has happened in liege

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Li%C3%A8ge_attack

    Won't be the last time either.


  • #41
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭weisses


    Grayson wrote: »
    Yet you're picking what is a minority cult within in islam, wahhabism, and using it to slander an entire religion. You're also claiming integration doesn't work because of that tiny minority. This is despite people showing you that there are many european cities where it works. And showing you that muslims weren't blowing people up.

    When you get rid of all the predominantly Muslim neighborhoods (terror breeding grounds) you have a point... Or maybe point me to the people who showed integration is just fine an integration is working ... Im curious


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  • #42
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Tiny minority blah blah...

    lets-not-jump-to-conclusions-aaannndddits-muslims.jpg


  • #43
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,116 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    weisses wrote: »
    When you get rid of all the predominantly Muslim neighborhoods (terror breeding grounds) you have a point... Or maybe point me to the people who showed integration is just fine an integration is working ... Im curious

    Boards - this was a muslim attack!!!

    *turns out not to be*

    Boards - um... well... maybe not this time..
    but it's only a matter of time blah blah blah


  • #44
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,752 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Very sad situation again for the family and friends of these innocent victims, these attacks will never make sense.


  • #45
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    I'm gonna be really blunt here and horribly insensitive - but what the f*ck?

    Honestly, look at the difference between reactions here when it's a school shooting by a white male and a shooting done by an immigrant* who "failed to integrate"?

    They are both crimes, done by sick, sick individuals and there is absolutely no need or reason to push personal racial agendas on the matter.

    Literally all threads like this somehow end up extreme Muslim bashing whereas there's nowhere near the amount of vitriol when it's a young school shooter off his rocker in the US?


    There are always different levels of reaction. Compare last weeks murder of Jastine Valdez with the latest murder of a young man in Louth. Like night and day in terms of reaction.


  • #46
    tomofson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    thebull85 wrote: »
    There are always different levels of reaction. Compare last weeks murder of Jastine Valdez with the latest murder of a young man in a Louth. Like night and day in terms of reaction.

    In today's radical feminist dominated society a males life is meaningless, and we let it happen.

    Radical feminism needs to get the boot sometime soon.


  • #47
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭weisses


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Boards - this was a muslim attack!!!

    *turns out not to be*

    Boards - um... well... maybe not this time..
    but it's only a matter of time blah blah blah

    Why are you quoting me ?

    I do not disagree with the above


  • #48
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    inforfun wrote: »
    And oh, radicalised in prison which he left yesterday.

    Radicalized vegan?
    Radicalized far right?
    Radicalized what?

    Islam presumably if they didn't mention anything? Kinda important bit of information to leave out really? Or is that just the new meaning of radicalized?

    Or do they just mean 'came out worse than he went in'?


  • #49
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭weisses


    tomofson wrote: »
    In today's radical feminist dominated society a males life is meaningless, and we let it happen.

    Radical feminism needs to get the boot sometime soon.

    Jesus ... that turned nasty quickly

    Any other groups you have an issue with ? Dont bottle it all up


  • #50
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,131 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    weisses wrote: »
    Jesus ... that turned nasty quickly

    Any other groups you have an issue with ? Dont bottle it all up

    I'm dissapointed there was no #CryptoIslamoFascism that was a great buzzword.


  • #51
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    wexie wrote: »
    Radicalized vegan?
    Radicalized far right?
    Radicalized what?

    Islam presumably if they didn't mention anything? Kinda important bit of information to leave out really? Or is that just the new meaning of radicalized?

    Or do they just mean 'came out worse than he went in'?


    According to RTE news, the attacker shouted god is great in Arabic. Make what you will of that.


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