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Esker Hills

123468

Comments

  • #252
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    Indeed there have been lies. An independent store would have to keep their prices somewhat right or people will just stay heading off the estate, which they are well used to doing by now anyway.
    Looks like there'll be alot of action around Esker Hills in the future then - especially if the Laois Gospel Fellowship are successful with their bid to open a church in the creche!!!


  • #253
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    ah that's great to hear! I saw the load if stone in the car park last night so presumed something was stirring. I hope they keep their prices reasonable though (unlike a certain little corner shop out on the dublin road) or else it'll just be passed by. still no word from the laois bible fellowship. I asked the lady from the church (that was talking to bicky and me before) 2 weeks ago to come on our forum to post up some info about their intended use of the creche to put peoples minds at ease.


  • #254
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    Hello there - I'm a part of the church so would be happy to answer any questions about what we are hoping to do if we're able to purchase the creche building. We're a community of Christians who've been meeting around the Portlaoise area for the last 10 years. We've got just under 50 members at the moment, plus children and visitors. We're from a variety of backgrounds but our aim to do what Jesus tells his disciples to do - to love God pre-eminently and to love our neighbors as ourselves. We've been meeting for the last couple of years in Abbeyleix Manor Hotel. You can see what we believe and what we do at our church website - www.laoisbible.com.

    If we're able to purchase the building, we'd plan to continue to do what we do at the moment, while also attempting to serve in the local community in terms of youth work etc. Our main meeting is on Sunday morning from 11am. We meet for about an hour and a half to worship God in singing and prayers and to listen to the Bible being explained to us. Then we go home for lunch. Much smaller groups meet on Sunday nights for prayer (normally 6pm to 8pm), on Wednesday nights for Bible study (normally 8pm to 9:30pm), and on Friday nights for younger people (same kind of hours). It's all quite normal really and no-one should be concerned that there will be unwelcome noise at any time of the day, never mind late at night.

    I suppose from the residents' point of view, there would be a concern about traffic. But what I've said above should help with that concern - our main meeting takes place at a time when the roads aren't terribly busy, and our meetings wouldn't involve focusing traffic on rush hour periods during the working week, as you might expect if it were to function as a creche. I'm sure residents would also appreciate the building being used and well maintained.

    That said, if anyone has any specific questions I'd be happy to answer them if I can.


  • #255
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    I would be interested to know how you recruit new members to your group and if you engage in calling from house to house to spread your word?
    I would also like to know why you consider a highly populated housing development an appropriate place to establish a permanent base for your group.


  • #256
    Bicky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Bicky


    We've got just under 50 members at the moment, plus children and visitors
    Hello,
    Thanks for coming on here to engage with us. When you say you have fifty members and visitors, what exactly do you mean by visitors? Casual members of your church which number in the tens/ hundreds?
    How does a church with fifty members afford to purchase and pay the upkeep for such a large building?
    Are you willing to meet with the Residents face to face? Will you be holding a meeting in The leisure centre?
    Every day I look out my window at an unkempt building. I would like to see it well maintained, rather by a crèche than a religious organisation admittedly.
    Why can't the organisation find some non residential area for it's church?


  • #257
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    Shazanne wrote: »
    I would be interested to know how you recruit new members to your group and if you engage in calling from house to house to spread your word?
    I would also like to know why you consider a highly populated housing development an appropriate place to establish a permanent base for your group.

    A good question - thanks. Actually we don't put a terribly high emphasis on recruiting new members. In common with Christians of all backgrounds, we believe that God loved the world and sent his Son so that whoever believes in him should not perish for their sin but have eternal life (see John 3:16 in the Bible, for example). We therefore don't believe that people have to be a special relationship to our church or any other church for them to get to heaven. So our priority is not in recruiting members, but in sharing the great news that God is prepared to forgive our sin forever when we repent of our sin and trust in his Son, Jesus Christ, alone. We're always pleased to see new visitors in our church, but they are not pressurised to join anything. Some of the folk who come on Sunday mornings have been coming for years without becoming members. Others join after coming for a month. No-one is pressurised into anything. We don't even pressurise our children into becoming members. One of the differences between our church and Catholic and protestant churches is that we don't baptise our children, to make them part of the church without their consent. Instead, we wait for people to believe the gospel, and then they will take those decisions about baptism and becoming a member of the church themselves.

    So we don't "recruit members," but we do encourage people to consider the good news of forgiveness offered to us in Jesus Christ. How do we do that? Well, we each recognise our responsibility to share the good news as and when we can. I suppose you could say that we do so in indirect and direct ways. In indirect ways, we would recognise our responsiblity to be good neighbours, to live the best kind of life we can to the glory of God. I could imagine this would be the kind of thing that residents in Esker Hills would appreciate. For example, you are taking responsibility for the upkeep of the green area. If we were to become a part of your community, it would be entirely reasonable for you to expect the church to be a good neighbour, and you might also be interested to know that some of our people have ride-on mowers! That's just one example, and I'm sure you could think of other ways in which good neighbours could play a useful part in community life.

    But we try to share the good news in direct ways too. Those ways can be informal or formal. Informally, we would hope that we would use whatever opportunities come our way to explain that God promises to forgive us if we commit ourselves to his Son Jesus. And I suppose we do that in all kinds of ways. If you were to ask the members of the church how they came to believe the gospel, they would all have a different story. Some of us were born into families where the Bible was read, or brought up in churches where the gospel was explained. Others of us heard the gospel for the first time as
    adults. We might have heard it from friends, or while reading a book, or the Bible. Many of us heard of it first informally.

    But, from time to time, we also try to use formal opportunities to share what we believe. Over the last few years, we have been putting magazines through doors around Portlaoise. They're glossy A4 size magazines called "4you" (there's a website you can check out if you haven't seen them and would like to see what they're like: www.4you.ie). Then over the last 3 summers, a handful of people from church have gone door to door for a couple of hours one night per week with the deliberate purpose of encouraging people to think about the message of the Bible. I haven't been myself, so I can't comment on what happens, but the feedback has been overwhelmingly very
    positive, and people are often glad to have an opportunity to talk to someone about what they believe. I certainly wouldn't expect our people to be pushy or aggressive, given what we believe! I suppose it's also worth emphasising that they're not selling anything! If anything is given out, it's free. And as it turns out, we've already covered the Esker Hills area: did you miss us ?

    So what might this mean for residents of the estate? Well, it's taken our door-to-door team all summer just to get around Kilminchy with magazines and invitations to church. At this rate, it'll take a while to cover the rest of the town, and then there's thr rest of the county after that. You can do the sums, but I'd suggest that it's unlikely we'd knock on your door more than once in any ten year period.

    OK, that was the first question. Your second question is about why the Esker Hills location. I'll get to that at my next tea break!

    Hope that is helpful.


  • #258
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    This should be good :)


  • #259
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    ILA wrote: »
    This should be good :)

    It should indeed! If you take all the references to God and the bible/gospel out of all that has been said above it hard to find any explanation for why they want to move in here!
    I worry about these religious groups and their constant striving to "recruit". There are alot of young and impressionable kids in Esker Hills that will be fascinated by all this and I can't see anything positive coming out of it.
    Plus, if they meet so infrequently and at defined times, what's wrong with the sytem they have of gathering in a rented hotel room?


  • #260
    insaneabouthunt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭insaneabouthunt


    Hi Guys

    i wonder what these guys are up too i hope something is done in that kip all the same


  • #261
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    Yes - I certainly agree with that. It's a fairly sorry looking sight at the moment. However, there's no sense in just accepting the first thing that comes along and I am very wary of this Church idea. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and I would love to hear the opinions of other people on the matter.


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  • #262
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Just to let you know folks theres a couple of discussions about this on the esker hills facebook page too so add us if you havnt already :)


  • #263
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    OK, the second question that was asked is about why we chose the Esker Hills site, and this was repeated by Bicky, who also asked about our ability to maintain the building if we were able to buy it (I’m assuming that’s what she is getting at when she asks about our funding sources). I’m on the building committee, so I can speak with some knowledge about this, though I’m not sure I can remember all the detail. But the gist of it is this:

    Our initial goal was to purchase a green field site around the Abbeyleix area. We viewed a number of suitable sites and began negotiations on a couple of them, but with no results. As we were looking around, our architect and planning consultant were also talking to the planning department in the council, and it was their impression that planners would prefer us to look for an existing non-utilised building than to build another. That’s quite reasonable, given the way that the recession has left us with unfinished estates, abandoned building projects, unsold and unused property. The planners would also prefer to see a church community facility located in a town served by footpaths and street lighting. It was at that point that we became aware of the Esker Hills site. The creche facility was for sale, it wasn’t being used, so we talked to the developer, and we’ve submitted for planning, as you know, which we think will both serve our needs as a congregation and enhance the general area for the benefit of the whole community.

    You both ask about the suitability of meeting in a residential area. It wasn’t our original plan, as I’ve just explained, but it does correspond to the situation of the other churches in Portlaoise, in that it’s situated within a community. So it’s certainly appropriate, unless we want to say that all the other churches are inappropriately situated. And as I said before, we would be intending to become a contributing part of the community, not a drain upon its goodwill.

    Bicky also asks about numbers attending. As I said, we have just under 50 members, plus children and visitors. We have a lot of children, as many and perhaps most of our families have young children – probably 70 children, all counted. And I’m not sure exactly how many visitors there are or will continue to be, as is the nature of the case. There are a stable core who meet with us without becoming members, but as you’d expect there are others who just drop in to see what it’s like, who might stay for a while, and then move on. Last Sunday was unusually large – we had 135 people, including adults and children, for Sunday morning worship. That’s happened a few times in the last couple of months. Residents in Esker Hills might fear that our plan would be to grow and grow, but really that can’t happen. The building has finite space capacity, and if / when it becomes too small we would need to consider how to develop the church community in multiple sites.

    As for our ability to maintain the building, that’s not in question. Although we are independent of any of the denominations, we are financially responsible, and would see the proper maintaining of the building as a basic mark of respect for our neighbours – just as I’m sure you would do.

    As for the public meeting, I understand that the arrangements are in process on the Esker Hills Facebook page, and I suppose there will be an announcement about this in due course – but we are certainly very willing to meet people and talk through any concerns that folk might raise. I hope that’s useful!


  • #264
    Bodhan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Bodhan


    I have a question, just where are the cars for up too 135 people going to park in Esker Hills? There's only space for about 15 spaces outside the building.
    Even if your 50 members turn up two to a car that's still 25 cars, so where's the cars going?


  • #265
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    There are two car parks - check out the proposed site plans here: http://www.laois.ie/idocs/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=10406

    The plans have about 36 spaces I think. But you'll notice there is space for more within the boundaries, which is something we're following up on.

    We have done surveys of the numbers of cars being used at the moment, and the average was I think in the low 30s. As I said before, many or even most people have young families, so in many instances you should think about cars with 3, 5 or sometimes even 7 people using these spaces.

    That should look much more managable, even if you take 135 people - which was I think the most we've ever had in one service - and work out how many cars they would require on that basis.

    It's also worth considering that a few of our members live within walking distance of the site - so not everyone who attends would need to drive.


  • #266
    Bodhan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Bodhan


    CRAG wrote: »
    There are two car parks - check out the proposed site plans here: http://www.laois.ie/idocs/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=10406

    The plans have about 36 spaces I think. But you'll notice there is space for more within the boundaries, which is something we're following up on.

    We have done surveys of the numbers of cars being used at the moment, and the average was I think in the low 30s. As I said before, many or even most people have young families, so in many instances you should think about cars with 3, 5 or sometimes even 7 people using these spaces.

    That should look much more managable, even if you take 135 people - which was I think the most we've ever had in one service - and work out how many cars they would require on that basis.

    It's also worth considering that a few of our members live within walking distance of the site - so not everyone who attends would need to drive.

    Ok let me put it another way, your car park is full one Sunday, where do the other cars park?
    I would presume that's the main problem here, the roads in and around the site are small enough without cars parked all over them.


  • #267
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    I am not 100% convinced on that explanation given regarding the Laois County Council planners and the green field site and I would suggested that those planners also be invited to any public meeting that will take place.
    Also, while I accept the point that Churches are generally in towns, they are certainly not in housing developments.
    The point raised on the parking is very true and one that will need to be fully explored.
    Overall, this issue is obviously causing concern to residents and I support the need for a public meeting and would hope to see all public representatives in attendance. There are quite a number of votes in Esker Hills!


  • #268
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    Bodhan wrote: »
    Ok let me put it another way, your car park is full one Sunday, where do the other cars park?
    I would presume that's the main problem here, the roads in and around the site are small enough without cars parked all over them.


    Thanks Bodhan – that’s a fair question, though it could be asked of anyone using the creche building, no matter what was the size of their car park. I suppose we would want to say that we believe the car parking space is big enough for our present needs, and that if a situation developed in which it became insufficient for our needs, we would respect the preferences of residents not to have church-related cars parked in front of their houses. There is no way that we would want to find ourselves facing the parking difficulties that confront some other churches in town. If the car park became insufficient for our needs, that would be our problem, not the problem of the residents, and we would certainly not want residents being inconvenienced. We already have some ideas about what we would do in that situation.

    But to be honest, our concern at the moment isn’t about church members or regular visitors not realising the importance of not parking in front of residents’ houses – it’s about people who are first-time visitors, and who aren’t sensitive to the situation, or about single adults running late with a car full of children on a rainy Sunday morning. In that worst-case scenario, I could imagine that a stray car could be parked somewhere off-site for the two hours or so that we meet on Sunday morning.

    We can talk about it more at the public meeting – announced below – but I think the message you will hear there is that we will make it our responsibility to inform everyone who regularly attends of the need not to park in front of residents’ houses. And surely, given all that I’ve said in previous posts about our hope to be reasonable neighbours, everyone who comes along would want to facilitate that. But the sad fact is that it’s very difficult to make promises on behalf of other people!

    So thanks Bodhan: I hope that’s a reasonable response, if not a categorical answer.

    The public meeting will be held at 8pm on Wednesday 1 September, upstairs in the Parish Centre.


  • #269
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Where is the parish centre CRAG?


  • #270
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    adser53 wrote: »
    Where is the parish centre CRAG?

    It's the building with the turf roof at the town end of the Stradbally Road - it's beside the red-brick church building, SS Peter and Paul's. (Dare I say, the one with the big car park?)


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  • #271
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    Could I just ask who has organised this public meeting and who, as in public reps etc., have been asked to attend?


  • #272
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    Shazanne wrote: »
    Could I just ask who has organised this public meeting and who, as in public reps etc., have been asked to attend?

    All the information about the meeting is on the Facebook page, and it's probably best that we stick to that one forum for communication to keep things simple from now on.

    The meeting has been organised by the church to address the concerns of residents in Esker Hills, and residents are welcome to invite whomever they wish.


  • #273
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    I am not on Facebook soI would appreciate you posting your information here as well.
    Who has been officially invited to this meeting other than the residents of Esker Hills?


  • #274
    TippTopp
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭TippTopp


    Hi Shazanne,

    Mike Tardive mailed me on facebook yesterday afternoon to let me know that he had up a post announcing the meeting on Esker Hills Facebook page about the public meeting and asked me to spread the word. By the time that I seen this message it was evening so I put up a thread on the Esker Hills Forum announcing very quickly the meeting on behalf of Laois Bible Group, sent a mail to Adser to sent a notice to all subscribers to the Esker Hills Residents Association (which was done last night) and I placed a community notice to the Leinster Express to announce the public meeting, this notice will unfortunately will only appear in next week’s edition, as deadline as far as I remember is Mondays 5pm. I have a copy of the notice below as I said that all are welcome. I mailed Mike back again yesterday eve, to check if there is any possibility of Laois Bible Group’s architect/engineer to attend and if any members of the planning department of Laois CC will attend also, which more than likely Laois Bible’s Group will attend this meeting but as for planning department, Mike was unsure.
    I have yet to contact all our public reps – but if you’re in contact (or anybody else) with any of the local reps in the area please do so, as the more people who contact the reps, the more likely that they will turn up on the night.
    Hope this is some help to you

    ESKER HILLS
    A Public Meeting regarding the recent planning application for change of use of the unoccupied Crèche Building at Esker Hills, Ridge Road, Portlaoise by The Laois Bible Group, is to be held on Wednesday, 1st September 2010 at 8pm at the Parish Centre, Portlaoise. All are welcome


    http://eskerhills.myfreeforum.org/Public_Meeting_8pm_Wed_1st_September_2010_Parish_Centre_about153.html



    All,

    There will be a public meeting will be held on Wednesday,
    1st September at 8pm upstairs in the Parish Centre

    I have included the link for the Parish Centre for peoplpe who might not be familar with it http://www.portlaoiseparish.ie/parish-centre/

    Also the other discussions that have been going on with connection with the creche building can be followed on Boards.ie on the following link
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=937

    Also add Esker Hills as a friend on Facebook to view the threads there also.
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=100001004134526&v=info&ref=ts

    In the absence of the internet - please pass on this information to your neighbour of the public meeting next wednesday 1st September.
    many thanks


  • #275
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #276
    insaneabouthunt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭insaneabouthunt


    i see there has been an objection to the planning on the creche,no surprise there,what next an objection to a creche!!lol;)


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  • #277
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    Hi. Why'd you say that? Has this happened before and it is a regular thing? To be honest I dont even know where Blossom Court is! I find all the "flowery" names a bit confusing:D Is Blossom Court the area that will be most affected by all this?


  • #278
    insaneabouthunt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭insaneabouthunt


    Yeah its near the creche,but these people always object to anything new that wants to be started up in esker hills,the retail unit,the school,its a wonder nothing about the new shop!i am not lying about this go to the laoiscoco website and you will see their objections i am waiting patiently for their scanned letters on the planning sections of the website,i am not against people voicing their concerns about this situation but why not talk it out here first with our good old fashioned neighbours who like to talk about things before going official,this truely is maybe i say maybe a truely laois thing to talk about things first maybe i am wrong but that is how we are in this county.thanks,;)


  • #279
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    insaneabouthunt wrote: »
    Yeah its near the creche,but these people always object to anything new that wants to be started up in esker hills,the retail unit,the school,its a wonder nothing about the new shop!i am not lying about this go to the laoiscoco website and you will see their objections i am waiting patiently for their scanned letters on the planning sections of the website,i am not against people voicing their concerns about this situation but why not talk it out here first with our good old fashioned neighbours who like to talk about things before going official,this truely is maybe i say maybe a truely laois thing to talk about things first maybe i am wrong but that is how we are in this county.thanks,;)

    Fair enough - I am from North Tipperary and we do things the same there:)!
    I am not aware of the objection you are referring to but I was given to believe that a residents group may have submitted a formal objection. However, we will no doubt all have our say on Wednesday night next and I do hope I can be there. I work as a journalist so sometimes things crop up unexpectedly - but fingers crossed!!
    However, if the meeting turns into a preaching session by the Bible people or they try and monopolise the proceedings, I will not tolerate that and would suggest a walk out by the residents!!


  • #280
    CRAG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭CRAG


    Obaraten wrote: »
    Mod note:
    Can the persons involved in the Laois bible group please pm me

    I'm trying to, but it's telling me I don't have enough posts to do so - I only joined to be part of this discussion. Can you "pm" me?


  • #281
    elainee40
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭elainee40


    Im blind, i dont see this on the laois co co website :P:confused:


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  • #282
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    elainee40 wrote:
    Im blind, i dont see this on the laois co co website

    You can see who objected here but the only letters that have been scanned in and are viewable online so far are the ones from the cottages opposite the estate entrance. Click on the link and then click on the "submissions" button on the top left side


    http://www.laois.ie/eplan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=10406&LASiteID=0


  • #283
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    So? Anyone go to the meeting tonight? How'd it go? I couldnt make it myself


  • #284
    Bicky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Bicky


    Here now Adam. Lots of rabble rabble to be honest. Three or four people talking sense. one man made coherent points and seems to have done some serious
    Homework re regulations etc. Can't see them getting permission.


  • #285
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    cheers JP, there's always going to be rabble rabble and someone talking hysterically :D
    Sure it makes it entertaining


  • #286
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Unfortunatley I was unable to attend the meeting last night, however,I believe there was great interest in my whereabouts. So much so,some felt it appropriate to make the point of my absence in front of all that attended. Not only was it asked 'where' I was but it was also added that I 'should' be there. Apparently my status as a resident of the estate, just like everyone else, is alot more important than I thought?

    I want to just clear a few things up - as something was implied that was completely untrue. The Laois Bible Fellowship contacted Esker Hills (via old commitee email) with regard to their intent. As you all know there is no commitee any more, and the emails are checked occasionally by me alone in case of anything important. I told them of this so I advised them that THEY should distribute leaflets to inform all residents of their intentions. I also suggested that THEY make a point of calling to the houses beside the creche to talk to them as they would be the ones most affected. Then when the CHURCH organised a meeting (NOT ME FOR THOSE WHO CLAIMED OTHERWISE), I simply distributed the information on facebook, via email and boards so as many residents could find out about it as possible.That was my involvement, end of story.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but I was trying to be helpful in replying to the church and trying to encourage them to contact all residents so we could all have the facts, voice our concerns and reach an agreement that pleases ALL THE RESIDENTS. I could have done nothing,as I was fully entitled to do.Would that have been better?

    I am a normal resident of this estate just like everybody else, I have no more obligation than anybody else to attend any meeting or anything else. I opened up a facebook page(and the old committee also set up a forum) for residents to come together & discuss issues about the estate? This doesnt mean I am now some sort of estate representative.

    I am sorry for the rant...but I am writing this post for all the residents who may or may not have attended the meeting to put things straight. I don't know why I came up in the meeting at all but I will not be criticised by somebody who has no facts and chooses to bring me up as some sort of scapegoat. Particularly when I am not there to defend myself. It is because of stuff (and people) like this that the old commitee was forced to break up.

    Well I wont be dealing with it anymore, so if anyone wants to look after the facebook page and the emails, please message me.

    Adam


  • #287
    Bicky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Bicky


    Well i want to thank you for all your hard work Adam. I dont know why you bothered in the first place with the attitude of some people. The estate will be far worse off without your support.


  • #288
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Cheers JP


  • #289
    Shazanne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Shazanne


    I'm not quite up to speed on the background to all this but, without hesitation, I would applaud anyone who has taken initiative in the past (or, indeed the present) towards the betterment of Esker Hills. I did not know there was an "old" committee that has disbanded and, reading between the lines, it would appear that it disbanded under unfortunate circumstances.
    They say that "a camel is a horse designed by a committee" - and with good reason! It's very difficult to get a committee to work effectively together, much less to agree. But it is a shame to see someone who tried to make things work being faulted, as appears to be the case with Adser.
    In my oinion, for what its worth, the small sub-committee for the different areas of Esker Hills will work far better than a large one representative of the entire estate. That's not to say that one group cannot help or support another, but small is beautiful when it comes to committees!


  • #290
    Bodhan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Bodhan


    I did hear your name mentioned last night Adam, but I think some of last night was a witch hunt so to speak. Adam has worked with me for the last few months in trying to get the big green down the end of the estate ship-shape, it took a huge amount of work for both of us to get that going. Quite apart from that, Adam runs the Facebook page and set up the forums that a lot of you use, for my part without Adam, most of us would still be strangers.
    Last night was all a bit negative for my liking, I would love to see something going into that building but having two small kids myself I would rather see a creche or community hall, something that we could all get involved in.

    I have nothing against the Fellowship, they all seemed like nice honest people just trying to find a home, I admire them for having the meeting in the first place they could have just applied for planning permission and see what happens.
    If your planning permission gets granted I'll be happy to see someone use that hall, but I'll be sad to loose the creche and the difficulties that will bring with parking and so on.
    If you don't get your permission I wish you all the best in finding your home.


  • #291
    megers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭megers


    THIS IS JENNY ,I DONT NO WHO YOU ARE BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD GET YOUR FACTS RITE FIRST THIS IS OUR FIRST OBJECTION WE'VE PUT IN.


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  • #292
    elainee40
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭elainee40


    i think between here and facebook its getting out of hand now.

    Meeting is done and dusted and out come will be know soon, we'll all be fighting with ourselves soon lol


  • #293
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Shazanne wrote:
    I did not know there was an "old" committee that has disbanded and, reading between the lines, it would appear that it disbanded under unfortunate circumstances.
    They say that "a camel is a horse designed by a committee" - and with good reason! It's very difficult to get a committee to work effectively together, much less to agree. But it is a shame to see someone who tried to make things work being faulted, as appears to be the case with Adser.
    In my oinion, for what its worth, the small sub-committee for the different areas of Esker Hills will work far better than a large one representative of the entire estate. That's not to say that one group cannot help or support another, but small is beautiful when it comes to committees!

    Howya Shazanne, just to give a quick bit of background to this so that you're not presuming the worst of us :D , Owenass held a meeting about the estate after they finished building and at that meeting, 4 of us volunteered to be the residents association committee.

    We all got on great together and worked our arses off for many countless hours and I like to think we accomplished a good deal and served the estate as best as humanly possible, between clean up days, anti-social behaviour, getting Owenass back to sort out some issues etc.

    Unfortunatley, this wasn't enough for a few residents and in the end we were getting nothing but grief from them so we just called it a day.

    I decided a few months later, after talking to Alan Hand, to try get things moving again by organising another clean up and also encouraging people to set up, like you said, small commitees in their areas.

    Apart from that, I swore that I would have no further involvement other than the internet end of things and to offer any help to people who wanted to try set up things in their own areas (by putting them in touch with eachother etc) So for the last 6 or 7 months, this is really all I've done. So now some small commitees have started looking after their own spots which is brilliant and, like you said, the best thing for the estate.:)

    But, it seems even this small involvment wasn't good enough for some people, who until this point kept their heads very low in the estate. I was still the one who's name they knew and last Wednesday, I became the focus of their anger about some long standing issues they seem to have. :(

    I'm not going to worry about it. Maybe the people that were so quick to call out my name and demand my presence the other night might take up the mantle to compensate for my obvious shortcomings. :D:p
    Bodhan wrote:
    I did hear your name mentioned last night Adam, but I think some of last night was a witch hunt so to speak. Adam has worked with me for the last few months in trying to get the big green down the end of the estate ship-shape, it took a huge amount of work for both of us to get that going. Quite apart from that, Adam runs the Facebook page and set up the forums that a lot of you use, for my part without Adam, most of us would still be strangers.
    Last night was all a bit negative for my liking, I would love to see something going into that building but having two small kids myself I would rather see a creche or community hall, something that we could all get involved in.

    I have nothing against the Fellowship, they all seemed like nice honest people just trying to find a home, I admire them for having the meeting in the first place they could have just applied for planning permission and see what happens.
    If your planning permission gets granted I'll be happy to see someone use that hall, but I'll be sad to loose the creche and the difficulties that will bring with parking and so on.
    If you don't get your permission I wish you all the best in finding your home.

    I couldn't agree more Bob and don't worry, I still plan on doing my bit for our end with you.

    Now even though I'm not getting invloved anymore, I do think we should move on from the whole creche/church debate as we'll find out soon enough what the planning decision is. It's silly to continue going in circles arguing with eachother. :pac:

    Anyone fancy a pint? :D


  • #294
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #295
    keepourcreche
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭keepourcreche


    Hi sorry u like so many residents ,couldn’t attend the meeting last night however just to clarify it was the pastor of the church who stated that you were his contact point within the estate and you were fully informed of their plans... and intentions. It seems from last nights meeting with these people and from your comments that what they say is not always what they mean, however the second point where your name was mentioned was when the pastor was asked if he had any discussions with you about the residents feelings with regards to the change of use. This question was asked as you have had previous experience of such issues with the earlier committee and that would have informed him of the task he was facing in obtaining planning. All residents at the meeting were aware that you only acted as a information point .we feel so sorry that as a result of this meeting that you feel you no longer will put yourself forward as a representative for the estate considering all the good and often thankless work you have done for the estate in conclusion the size of the attendance from the residents at last nights meeting confirms how very few were interested in what the church had to say


  • #296
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Obaraten wrote: »
    Hi folks can we tone it down a little thanks,i dont want to lock this thread.

    No arguements here, this is getting a tad silly.

    I only initially posted to defend myself from the witchhunt as this is one of the mediums I've always used to distribute news, statements etc to residents of the estate.

    And please, if people want to keep on arguing about the creche/church can they start their own thread because I don't want this one to turn into tit-for-tat comments like the facebook page did. (however,I have one more reply :rolleyes:)
    keepourcreche wrote: »
    Hi sorry u like so many residents ,couldn’t attend the meeting last night however just to clarify it was the pastor of the church who stated that you were his contact point within the estate and you were fully informed of their plans... and intentions. It seems from last nights meeting with these people and from your comments that what they say is not always what they mean, however the second point where your name was mentioned was when the pastor was asked if he had any discussions with you about the residents feelings with regards to the change of use. This question was asked as you have had previous experience of such issues with the earlier committee and that would have informed him of the task he was facing in obtaining planning. All residents at the meeting were aware that you only acted as a information point .we feel so sorry that as a result of this meeting that you feel you no longer will put yourself forward as a representative for the estate considering all the good and often thankless work you have done for the estate in conclusion the size of the attendance from the residents at last nights meeting confirms how very few were interested in what the church had to say
    I already replied to this post/comment yesterday on facebook. The implications about my involvment in your post (i.e that I was "fully informed of their plans... and intentions" ) were refuted by, not only myself, but other residents and the pastor himself. I don't see your point in reposting the exact same comment here following the 8 or 9 replies to it on facebook already

    Can we move on now?


  • #297
    keepourcreche
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭keepourcreche


    adser53 wrote: »
    No arguements here, this is getting a tad silly.

    I only initially posted to defend myself from the witchhunt as this is one of the mediums I've always used to distribute news, statements etc to residents of the estate.

    And please, if people want to keep on arguing about the creche/church can they start their own thread because I don't want this one to turn into tit-for-tat comments like the facebook page did. (however,I have one more reply :rolleyes:)


    I already replied to this post/comment yesterday on facebook. The implications about my involvment in your post (i.e that I was "fully informed of their plans... and intentions" ) were refuted by, not only myself, but other residents and the pastor himself. I don't see your point in reposting the exact same comment here following the 8 or 9 replies to it on facebook already

    Can we move on now?
    I thought everyone had......it is not tit for tat we live in a democracy as far as i am aware.the initial point was made by the guy in the meeting he said you were unaware of any of their plans...yet esker hills website posted the following "This meeting has been organised by the Laois Bible Fellowship, at the request of the residents, in order for them to answer some questions and concerns about their proposed plans to purhcase the creche building to use as their new church." are you not taking care of esker hills site ?. ..where any comment is made a reply will be posted..As you well know if you put your head above the trench wall there is a good chance it will be targeted as we have found out over the last few weeks,we will not be silenced about issues in the area,as for refuting the statement about their plans you posted this "As for the second time my name was raised, I don't see the relevance of why I was brought up. There hasn't been a committe since last August. I have no more experience than anyone else,so why it was felt necessary to ask the pastor " if he had any discussions with you (me)about the residents feelings with regards to the change of use." makes no sense to me. I suggested they organise a meeting and hand out leaflets in the interest of the residents. So we could know the full story. Then the residents could discuss their feelings themselves" this implies that you were aware of what the plans were.Which of the two ? you or the american guy are being economical with the truth.Just to repeat any comment regarding change of use (planning) will be replied to on whatever medium it appears.......


  • #298
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Mag, I really don't know what your problem is. We're all on the same side (Esker Hills) so why you see fit to target me in your crusade for the estate is beyond me. This is the last reply I'll be putting up to you because you clearly have a bone to pick with someone and that's not going to be me.

    I have said already that they contacted the esker hills email. I advised them to hold a meeting and to hand out leaflets. A meeting that you yourself attended. Whats the problem with that? This doesn't mean I had secret, in-depth knowledge of their plans. In fact, by all accounts, you have a hell of a lot more information than anyone else.

    My head was above the trench wall long enough. I've withdrawn it now because individuals such as yourself have deemed it fit to classify me as the enemy when things don't go their way. And no one is asking you to be silent, in fact, be as loud as you want about your issues but don't drag me into them.

    As for me posting "As for the second time my name was raised, I don't see the relevance of why I was brought up. There hasn't been a committe since last August. I have no more experience than anyone else,so why it was felt necessary to ask the pastor " if he had any discussions with you (me)about the residents feelings with regards to the change of use." makes no sense to me. I suggested they organise a meeting and hand out leaflets in the interest of the residents. So we could know the full story. Then the residents could discuss their feelings themselves"
    Read the post Mag, "so we could know the full story". That means I didn't know it so why would you assume that I had any knowledge of what they intended? You yourself said "the initial point was made by the guy in the meeting he said you were unaware of any of their plans"
    You seem to be a fan of misquoting people, misrepresenting peoples comments and jumping to conclusions. I live in this estate and have only it's best interests at heart so get off your pedestal and stop insinuating otherwise.

    YOU made up your own mind about the church and lumped me in with it. As for being economical with the truth, I couldn't disagree with you more. I've been honest and truthful all through this. You just seem to have made some large assumptions and jumped to conclusions based on nothing. I applaud your dedication to the whole issue, fair play to you. However, I had next to nothing to do with it so why don't you continue to focus your energy on bettering the estate and maybe help finding a use for the building instead of wasting everyones time in your imaginary witch hunt.

    If you want to keep flogging a dead horse, I suggest you start your own thread here or a facebook page.
    keepourcreche wrote:
    Just to repeat any comment regarding change of use (planning) will be replied to on whatever medium it appears.......
    Yes a reply is fully acceptable on whatever medium used. HOWEVER, reposting a reply that was refuted 24 hours earlier serves no purpose and appears to be nothing more than an attempt to target me and/or restart an arguement that has already been put to rest. You could have simply joined-in in this discussion and offered some constructive input.

    I hope that after the creche is sorted you continue to work for the estate because I certainly don't have the energy to deal with people like you anymore, where nothing is ever enough. Keep safe :rolleyes:

    Also Obaraten, I realise you asked us to cool things down but please don't lock this thread. Up until now it has been a great thread and a valuable resource for the estate with no arguements. And I assure this will be my last post to "keepourcreche".


  • #299
    keepourcreche
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭keepourcreche


    Hi Adam there never has been a “witch hunt” (whatever Bob suggests)it is just your own
    paranoia if you check face book I have had nothing but praise for your work. Everyone needs to stand back and look at what is happening, this organisation has only applied for planning and look at the discord it has caused in the area.
    Look at the comment about blossom court since it is on their doorstep surely they have every reason
    To object to the planning. There has been two traffic incidents involving children in the last 6 weeks and now this
    Group is looking to increase parking to 59 spaces. Sorry to offend you by repeating myself but the traffic calming measures are not adequate and there is no safety signage or road markings at the entrance.
    When present
    Planning Is stopped I will continue to campaign for better safety measures and a use for the building that will benefit the community.
    On a final note I am not on a pedestal and never will be I do not need this for my self esteem.
    For everyone that is reading this please have the remainder of the objections in by noon tomorrow (6th Sept). On one final point Adam this is not about you so get over yourself it is about improving our area
    Making it safer for our children and pedestrians And using an empty building for for the benefit of our
    Estate. As far as creating a new thread this is “esker hills” and any resident in esker hills should be allowed post information relevant to the area . As for getting this thread locked Adam I resent this accusation considering it has been you and meggar who have been contacted by the moderator.:D:D:D


  • #300
    adser53
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭adser53


    Look at least we can agree on something then that the issue is about the creche. Let's just leave it at that.

    I do also hope you continue to campaign for better road safety in the estate as it is an issue.

    And I also agree that of ALL the estate residents, the ones in Blossom court matter most when it comes to that building and their happiness is paramount.
    As for my contact with the moderator it wasnt a warning, in fact quite the opposite.
    I wish you the best in your campaign, and I'm sure everyone would like to be kept updated on your progress.


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  • #301
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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