Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

SharpshooterTom · 12-10-2019 5:54pm #1

I know this topic is potentially a hornests nest but I feel I have to ask anyway if that's ok.

I from England originally but have been living in Northern Ireland for nearly 19 years so this doesn't apply to me but I have family who are from here (from nationalist backgrounds) who identify as Irish, play GAA etc. From topics I've read regarding debates around UI's or extending the vote for Irish president to the North, I have read a lot of disparaging comments and ill feeling towards Northern nationalists, that they're not "real" Irish/not as Irish as someone from the Republic/foreigners, or even not Irish at all. I'm curious to know how common this sentiment is towards people in North from people in the Republic?

I was watching a youtube video when Martin McGuinness was confronted by a women questioning him running for Irish president (nothing wrong with that given his history) but implying that he and people from the North weren't Irish (shaking her head that people from Derry were not as Irish as people from Cork or Kerry as you see at 0:46).

My mum (Belfast born and raised, holds an Irish passport) has herself come across people from the Republic whilst living in England not considering her a proper Irish as themselves or speaking negatively of her being from the North.

Is this sentiment quite common in the ROI towards Irish nordies?

12-10-2019 5:57pm

If they consider themselves to be Irish, I have no objections.

amadangomor · 12-10-2019 6:01pm

This is you ??:pac:

JamesDerryGirls-b88e46c.jpg?quality=90&lb=620,413&background=white

pgj2015 · 12-10-2019 6:12pm

yes, and the unionists are Irish as well, even if they dont want to admit it.

bobbysands81 · 12-10-2019 6:32pm

Anyone born in the 06 counties is as Irish as someone born in the Republic.

Thelonious Monk · 12-10-2019 6:37pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Anyone born in the 06 counties is as Irish as someone born in the Republic.

I would never have expected such an answer from you, bobbysands81

jaxxx · 12-10-2019 6:39pm

Are people from England English? Are people from Scotland Scottish? Are people from Wales Welsh?

#Food4Thought

lawred2 · 12-10-2019 6:39pm

Yes.

I also consider unionists born in Ireland to be Irish.

12-10-2019 6:43pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Yes.

I also consider unionists born in Ireland to be Irish.

Do you consider them British if they so identity?

Plumbthedepths · 12-10-2019 6:45pm

People born in NI have a right to both a British and Irish passport so if they wish to identify as Irish all good if they want to identify as British equally good. Giving Irish passports to citizens of the north if they want one was very small price to pay for the GFA and the peace it brought about.

Silent Running · 12-10-2019 6:46pm

Those born in the North of Ireland are as Irish as those born in the West of Ireland,or the south of Ireland, or the East of Ireland.

Why would people born in occupied territory be anything but Irish? Ireland is an Island.

JohnnyFlash · 12-10-2019 6:48pm

They are Irish, but there’s definitely something different about Nordies. Very sour and dour people who are seemingly incapable of letting things go.

wijam · 12-10-2019 6:48pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

No. Ireland = Irish. Northern Ireland = UK = British.

The worst thing we ever did was hand out easy passports to foreign nationals.

Yeah that’s a load of balls and shows little understanding of the situation, this coming from a Derry man, who holds an Irish passport

Your Face · 12-10-2019 6:48pm

Not part of the Republic = not Irish.

banie01 · 12-10-2019 6:52pm

Yep I do.
The right of N.I folk to claim Irish citizenship and to have their right to identify as Irish recognised and respected is one of the numerous compromises that led to the relative peace wrought by the GFA.

Parity of esteem and the right to identify as and be a citizen of the Republic are integral to that.

We even had a referendum on it

lawred2 · 12-10-2019 6:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you consider them British if they so identity?

sure and Irish

rockatansky · 12-10-2019 6:58pm

Your Face wrote: »

Not part of the Republic = not Irish.

So Irish people only existed after the declaration of the Republic in 1949?

You're talking nonsense.

Of course they are Irish, it's a stupid question only asked to antagonise.

Your Face · 12-10-2019 6:59pm

rockatansky wrote: »

So Irish people only existed after the declaration of the Republic in 1949?

You're talking nonsense.
.

Underpants gnome logic there.

SharpshooterTom · 12-10-2019 7:02pm

rockatansky wrote: »

Of course they are Irish, it's a stupid question only asked to antagonise.

Nope, I've not written the thread purposefully to antagonise. There are people in the Republic unfortunately who do not see those north of the border as Irish as someone from the ROI. I linked the Martin McGuinness video as proof these people exist (I had to because I knew I would get the "OP's a sh1tstirrer" passing comments) and I'm curious to know how common these views actually are, or was she just an extremist?

rockatansky · 12-10-2019 7:10pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Nope, I've not written the thread purposefully to antagonise. There are people in the Republic unfortunately who do not see those north of the border as Irish as someone from the ROI. I linked the Martin McGuinness video as proof these people exist (I had to because I knew I would get the "OP's a sh1tstirrer" passing comments) and I'm curious to know how common these views actually are, or was she just an extremist?

You linked to one person with this view. Plenty of nut jobs have been in the audience in RTE and got themselves on TV by asking a question.

Are people really going to argue that Liam Neeson, Ciaran Hinds, Adrian Dunbar, Bronagh Gallagher, Seamus Heaney, James McClean etc.. arent Irish?

There is only one answer to your question , yes they are.

dxhound2005 · 12-10-2019 7:11pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Nope, I've not written the thread purposefully to antagonise. There are people in the Republic unfortunately who do not see those north of the border as Irish as someone from the ROI. I linked the Martin McGuinness video as proof these people exist (I had to because I knew I would get the "OP's a sh1tstirrer" passing comments) and I'm curious to know how common these views actually are, or was she just an extremist?

There is nothing unfortunate about having that viewpoint. It is as valid as any other. The current political settlement is disputed by some people, as is the case in many other territories around the world. The best way to proceed is to abide by what is recognised by the UN for the time being.

SharpshooterTom · 12-10-2019 7:13pm

rockatansky wrote: »

There is only one answer to your question , yes they are.

I agree with you (although I wouldn't consider unionists Irish). But we have around 30% of early votes so far who don't see Nordie nationalists as Irish so far. So she's not an extremist.

Donnielighto · 12-10-2019 7:16pm

They are but they don't have the same country as me. Same nation, not country but that is by geography only.

dxhound2005 · 12-10-2019 7:18pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I agree with you (although I wouldn't consider unionists Irish). But we have around 30% of early votes so far who don't see Nordie nationalists as Irish so far. So she's not an extremist.

Too small a sample, and self selecting. Another Boards poll made Sinn Fein the most popular political party, 10% ahead of the second place.

Ready4Boarding · 12-10-2019 7:23pm

There's no single, preeminent Irish identity (something many of my countrymen are too bigoted to have perceived). And while northern nationalists can certainly participate in the same Irish identity that prioritises Irish unity and looks to the distant Gaelic past for cultural inspiration, there's quite obviously a sense of Irishness from which they are excluded, and vice versa. Ironically, the Troubles, the violent attempt at unification, has had the effect of magnifying their cultural difference.

Bobblehats · 12-10-2019 7:26pm

People from Northern Ireland in Northern Irish shocker :eek:

votecounts · 12-10-2019 7:26pm

Yes and we voted in the GFA that states this, or are rewriting history now.

Danzy · 12-10-2019 7:30pm

More importantly the Govt in Westminster, the Tory party, wider British society are making it clear they consider everyone in the North as nothing to them, certainly not British.

They don't care what anyone In the Roi thinks of it.

The choice was Brexit or the United Kingdom and their going for Brexit.

The North being in the customs Union is arguably more significant than the ending of Stormont in the early 70s or the peace process.

Britain is saying your different to us and making it legally so, and in a way where divergence can only grow.

Zaph · 12-10-2019 7:41pm

The GFA allows people from Northern Ireland to decide whether they're Irish or British and carry the appropriate passport, and I've no problem with that. But I do draw the line at people like Martin McGuinness or Gerry Adams standing for elected positions in this country when they have not been normal residents of the Republic. Notwithstanding their backgrounds, which I have no time for, but parachuting in and deciding they'd like to be president or a TD makes a mockery of the electoral process and is unfair to the people who didn't vote for them that they may ultimately represent. Gerry Adams doesn't even live in the country of the parliament he's been elected to, how is that right?

Ten of Swords · 12-10-2019 7:48pm

Mod

Moved to Politics. Read the local charter before posting

mehico · 12-10-2019 7:50pm

Zaph wrote: »

The GFA allows people from Northern Ireland to decide whether they're Irish or British and carry the appropriate passport, and I've no problem with that. But I do draw the line at people like Martin McGuinness or Gerry Adams standing for elected positions in this country when they have not been normal residents of the Republic. Notwithstanding their backgrounds, which I have no time for, but parachuting in and deciding they'd like to be president or a TD makes a mockery of the electoral process and is unfair to the people who didn't vote for them that they may ultimately represent. Gerry Adams doesn't even live in the country of the parliament he's been elected to, how is that right?

Im not trying to dismiss your reasons but once a person is elected democratically I don't think it makes a mockery of the electoral process.

Zaph · 12-10-2019 7:52pm

mehico wrote: »

Im not trying to dismiss your reasons but once a person is elected democratically I don't think it makes a mockery of the electoral process.

OK, I'll rephrase, it makes a mockery of the electoral process if someone who doesn't live in the country is allowed to stand for an elected position here.

dabestman1 · 12-10-2019 7:54pm

Yes, as I have family that are from the north, I find it highly insulting to suggest that they are anything but irish. As for the remark about SF fielding candidates that were northern based wrong, if the electorate votes for them and they get a seat, thats good enough for me. Its not just SF who does this, FG have done this recently with Austin Currie, Mark Durkan,admittedly with losing outcomes.

Zaph · 12-10-2019 7:59pm

dabestman1 wrote: »

Its not just SF who does this, FG have done this recently with Austin Currie, Mark Durkan,admittedly with losing outcomes.

As far as I'm concerned FG were as much out of order fielding those candidates as SF were with theirs, I just used SF as an example as Martin McGuinness' bid for president was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Spleerbun · 12-10-2019 8:00pm

Zaph wrote: »

The GFA allows people from Northern Ireland to decide whether they're Irish or British and carry the appropriate passport, and I've no problem with that.

Yeah but from my experience what tends to wind people up is the ones who choose to have both and are Irish when it suits and British when it suits. The ones who "renounce" their right to the British passport and have Irish and Irish only, from my experience in these discussions at least, don't tend to be looked down upon to the same extent

Galwayguy35 · 12-10-2019 8:00pm

I sure do, it's not their fault the Brits still hold a claim on part of our country.

Sure nobody would have been Irish so before independance going by what some are saying seeing as the whole country was under Brit rule.

Plumbthedepths · 12-10-2019 8:02pm

Zaph wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned FG were as much out of order fielding those candidates as SF were with theirs, I just used SF as an example as Martin McGuinness' bid for president was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Gordon Wilson's appointment to the Seanad was an excellent decision.

myshirt · 12-10-2019 8:05pm

Why do people find it so difficult to wrap their heads around the fact Ireland is f*cking Ireland?

The 6 counties are absolutely occupied, and we are where we are with the history of that. The plantation of Ulster happened to be the most successful element of British occupation on this island. What do we do? Throw people off the Island? Absolutely not. No one wants that. We have a shared history. The flag is Green, white and Gold for a reason.

I'm no Sinn Fein voter. By a long, long mile. Some seriously sinister people in the mix there, but for those not sinister, at least they did not let their country men down.

I was disgusted at this lady's comment. Irish people born in the North and of the McGuinness vintage were born into a place that did not want them, but to which they belong. And this lady comes along and tells them they are not Irish. They are every bit welcome anywhere on this island. This is Ireland. It's not England. We're Irish. Not Anglo Saxon. Even the new Irish.

VinLieger · 12-10-2019 8:11pm

Personally id consider them to be "Northern Irish" but im not gonna argue with someone who insists on calling themselves something else.

Donnielighto · 12-10-2019 8:19pm

Ok, we just need to clarify. Maybe we're all Irish, those in the republic be Republicans and the ones in the union are unionists?

Seriously though it's too broad, you can be part of multiple groups. Anyone living or born in Ireland has at least a basis for calling themselves Irish.

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-10-2019 8:20pm

One does not need to be from the 26 counties to be Irish. I've always found it bizarre that some people down south think the creation of an independent state brought with it the creation of the Irish identity. As has been said already, this logic suggests there were no Irish people prior to independence.

I also remember well the cringeworthy arrogance of that woman in the clip from the OP. The bright spark didn't seem to realise that we already had a President from the North (McAleese), as well as one born in London (Childers) and one born in New York (de Valera).

saabsaab · 12-10-2019 8:22pm

I'm shocked to see that 30% or so would not consider NI people as Irish! I would consider all NI as Irish but would have to respect the view of those of them who identify as British only. I'd say it is a small number.

jaxxx · 12-10-2019 8:24pm

Dinosaurs still alive I see.

votecounts · 12-10-2019 8:25pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

One does not need to be from the 26 counties to be Irish. I've always found it bizarre that some people down south think the creation of an independent state brought with it the creation of the Irish identity. As has been said already, this logic suggests there were no Irish people prior to independence.

I also remember well the cringeworthy arrogance of that woman in the clip from the OP. The bright spark didn't seem to realise that we already had a President from the North (McAleese), as well as one born in London (Childers) and one born in New York (de Valera).

She came across as a fool who obviously had never read a history or geography book.

Donnielighto · 12-10-2019 8:25pm

saabsaab wrote: »

I'm shocked to see that 30% or so would not consider NI people as Irish! I would consider all NI as Irish but would have to respect the view of those of them who identify as British only. I'd say it is a small number.

I didn't vote, should be an option that it's up to the individual.

mfceiling · 12-10-2019 8:28pm

myshirt wrote: »

The flag is Green, white and Gold for a reason.

Not being a smart arse but is the flag not green white and orange?

I have heard it being described as green white and gold before though and always wondered where it originated from.

SharpshooterTom · 12-10-2019 8:29pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

I didn't vote, should be an option that it's up to the individual.

But do you consider Northerners who wish to identify as Irish, to be as Irish yourself?

That was what the second option in the poll was for.

The third option was for people who don't consider nordies Irish even if they played nothing but GAA, spoke fluent Irish and only held an Irish passport.

I haven't voted because I'm not Irish and only want people from the ROI to vote in it to make the results more accurate (if that's possible) but the second option would be my prefered option.

I absolutely would consider protestants/unionists to be British as anyone in England, Scotland or Wales, that's their choice and should be respected. They are of full British heritage after all.

Danzy · 12-10-2019 8:31pm

Zaph wrote: »

The GFA allows people from Northern Ireland to decide whether they're Irish or British and carry the appropriate passport, and I've no problem with that. But I do draw the line at people like Martin McGuinness or Gerry Adams standing for elected positions in this country when they have not been normal residents of the Republic. Notwithstanding their backgrounds, which I have no time for, but parachuting in and deciding they'd like to be president or a TD makes a mockery of the electoral process and is unfair to the people who didn't vote for them that they may ultimately represent. Gerry Adams doesn't even live in the country of the parliament he's been elected to, how is that right?

There are several key errors in this post.

Not small ones either given your whole premise depends on them.

ChikiChiki · 12-10-2019 8:31pm

Without reading the thread, I view Nationalists as Irish and Unionists as Trannys. (They are in transition and becoming Irish prior to renification when the British eventually get rid, they just do not realise the poor craythurs).

Theres a song in there somewhere, "Come out you black and trans"

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-10-2019 8:34pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Not being a smart arse but is the flag not green white and orange?

I have heard it being described as green white and gold before though and always wondered where it originated from.

Gold= Rome

Colour of the flag of the Vatican

Danzy · 12-10-2019 8:34pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Without reading the thread, I view Nationalists as Irish and Unionists as Trannys. (They are in transition and becoming Irish, they just do not realise the poor craythurs)

Are the dissident TERFs.

Do you consider nationalists from Northern Ireland to be Irish?

Do you consider people from Northern Ireland to be Irish? 382 votes

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