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Another "Freeman on the Land" Conspiracy Loon gets locked up for contempt of court

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    #152
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    That's a huge leap of faith to make, throwing your weight behind someone without knowing what they stand for.

    I certainly wouldn't do it.

    See above.


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    #153
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well thats you - and fair enough.
    I'm lending my support to an organisation, an idea that "Direct Democracy" is possible better way to hold TD's more accountable and a better way for the Irish people to start no longer being afraid of the government - but that the government should be instead, afraid of the people!
    End of story.

    What one person might think to himself in his own time and keep outside the organisation completely so far, is none of my business until I see it interjecting in the running of a said organisation.
    Till then - it should be generally none of my business.

    Would you still vote for him? Should he still be a part of DDI?


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    #154
    joe swanson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Ddi seem to shill the politics forum regularly. going by the links on the ddi and freeman websites, its hard not to believe they are deeply intertwined.


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    #155
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Would you still vote for him? Should he still be a part of DDI?

    Yes - and why not?

    He co-created an organisation to try and bring an entirely legal possible way to see that the Irish people gain some rights back that previously was taken from them. As long as he and others support that idea, I see no problem in standing beside the man.

    What anyone thinks at home generally is their own business.
    (Mind you, if they are thinking of building a nuke in their back garden shed & I get wind of these thoughts - Yes, then I'm likely to be ruddy worried! Bloody fast!!!)


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    #156
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Ddi seem to shill the politics forum regularly. going by the links on the ddi and freeman websites, its hard not to believe they are deeply intertwined.

    Well they are not from all that I have witnessed, heard and found through interaction with others in the org.

    They must all be hiding their Freeman membership cards in their business suits!
    I'll have to start peeking into their pockets to check!


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    #157
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    Biggins wrote: »
    Again... DUH!!!

    I've had very little (if any) interactions with you in the past, but for fcuk sake will you drop that shíte - if people are misinformed then fair enough, educate them but the name calling and general dickery is a little tough to take.

    I'd be interested in engaging you in a reasoned debate on some of this stuff you've mentioned (as I'm sure others would) if only you'd lose the high horse attitude and cryptic comments - you want us to be direct and have called a few lads on here out over their implications but you're quite content to "not get into the details here" about certain situations while implying that you're in the know. It really is quite something to behold


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    #158
    Systemic Risk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Systemic Risk


    Biggins wrote: »
    I've been busy - some of us have been very busy not to be on AH regular as I'd like - sorry if that upsets you!
    Fcuk me - any excuse to bitch at another person!



    1. Both.
    2. So what? You can still do whatever you like - wherever you like, on your property.
    I don't see the problem here!



    Where has ANYONE said that? Please show it? Back your crap up!

    I said Lee Wellstead got tired of the whole battle against the bank.
    He did. The wore him and his family don't.
    For the sake of his, his wife and his kids mental health, he walked away.
    What part of this do you not get - or do wish wish to try again and state something that was never said in the first place?

    Jeebus biggins you come across as an extremely harsh individual. You are extremely combatative and have zero ability to debate and have no persuasive skills. If the DDI movement is to gain any traction should you not be presenting your case in a calm maner and rationally debating points with posters. You know you dont have to reply angrily to every post that disagrees with you.

    Reacting as you have on this thread has served to turn me off DDI. When i first heard of it i thought it was a novel idea for the people to be able to put forward laws for referendum. I was open to persuasion. Not by you though im afraid.


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    #159
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Biggins wrote: »
    Yes - and why not?

    He co-created an organisation to try and bring an entirely legal possible way to see that the Irish people gain some rights back that previously was taken from them. As long as he and others support that idea, I see no problem in standing beside the man.

    What anyone thinks at home generally is their own business.
    (Mind you, if they are thinking of building a nuke in their back garden shed & I get wind of these thoughts - Yes, then I'm likely to be ruddy worried! Bloody fast!!!)


    The Irish people have had nothing taken from them btw. People have had their houses repossessed because they couldn't or wouldn't service their mortgages.

    I agree what anyone thinks at home is generally their own business. But when that person runs for political office, then it becomes our business.


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    #160
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Systemic Risk wrote: »
    Jeebus biggins you come across as an extremely harsh individual. You are extremely combatative and have zero ability to debate and have no persuasive skills. If the DDI movement is to gain any traction should you not be presenting your case in a calm maner and rationally debating points with posters. You know you dont have to reply angrily to every post that disagrees with you.

    Reacting as you have on this thread has served to turn me off DDI. When i first heard of it i thought it was a novel idea for the people to be able to put forward laws for referendum. I was open to persuasion. Not by you though im afraid.

    Spends most days commentating the usual anti-government sh1te on thejournal and quoting his own blog as references as well http://twitter.com/unitedpeople http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/


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    #161
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Systemic Risk wrote: »
    J...Reacting as you have on this thread has served to turn me off DDI. When i first heard of it i thought it was a novel idea for the people to be able to put forward laws for referendum. I was open to persuasion. Not by you though im afraid.

    Well thats your right and fair enough.
    What's very sad is that there is some clearly out to knock DDI via Ben Gilroy.
    Its tactic that been used before in regards other people and other parties - its a common thing to throw 'muck' in hope that some of it will stick.

    Whats very sad and irks me is that also there is some clearly out there that just accept this Freeman rubbish because (a) they refuse to take the word of those close to the actual people and/or (b) they don'r want to accept the truth because they have an opposing ideology or agenda.
    Its sad and annoying that some people just swallow any still totally unproven crap that is just said to them.
    Ask them to look for evidence independently and they oft times take the lazy way out "well I read it somewhere... so It must be true!" (or words to that effect).


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    #162
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Spends most days commentating the usual anti-government sh1te on thejournal and quoting his own blog as references as well

    I do sometimes, but then I put links there to material I go on about - to back up my stuff.
    You must have forgot to mention that by accident!


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    #163
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well thats your right and fair enough.
    What's very sad is that there is some clearly out to knock DDI via Ben Gilroy.

    Actually Mr Biggins, can you answer me this as a member of DDI, what is DDI / Ben Gilroys position on supporting chancers like the Quinn family, and why was he on stage at the pro-Quinn rally in Cavan?

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wvAHObVu7Jc/UUNywy5FrtI/AAAAAAAAAGs/xI3dEl4VnCw/s1600/Quinn-Gilroy.jpg


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    #164
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,296 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    minidazzler wrote: »
    The threat of and jailing of someone for not agreeing with a court is inherently wrong. Because that's all this is, a man not agreeing with a judge, no crime is committed and he has hurt no body. To think you can be jailed for that is fcuking ludicrous.
    So you think that when he went bankrupt, that he should not have to have any dealings with the Official Assignee, and that no penalties should be brought against him for such?
    Biggins wrote: »
    They simply do not wish to be accountable at all times.
    It's basic power. If they had to ask us what to do at each and every day, I doubt they'd get anything done, and we'd be spending more time voting that some of us spend in the shower.


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    #165
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Systemic Risk wrote: »

    Reacting as you have on this thread has served to turn me off DDI. When i first heard of it i thought it was a novel idea for the people to be able to put forward laws for referendum. I was open to persuasion. Not by you though im afraid.

    There's various parties now looking for direct democracy across Europe. Turning down the opportunity have a real say through e-democracy or democracy through ballots on social networks is akin to shooting yourself in the foot IMO.

    Met Ben a couple of times. Good luck to him I say. Realistically I'd like a Pirate party or something similar to set up over here.


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    #166
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Actually Mr Biggins, can you answer me this as a member of DDI, what is DDI / Ben Gilroys position on supporting chancers like the Quinn family, and why was he on stage at the pro-Quinn rally in Cavan?

    I have no problem answering that.
    I have done so many time after speaking to many including Ben.

    Ben was invited to speak about the antics of some of the heads of Anglo and other banks that at the time of the Bail-out starting, were up to no good.
    As Ben is involved with another organisation that is challenging the banks and their devastating effect on Ireland - he was asked to speak about this.

    From all reports (including journalists), he never stood on that stage and stated ANYTHING about the man and his family.
    He simply spoke about his and his orgs experiences with the Anglo and other banks - then sat down.

    Many people have asked others to produce ANY MATERIAL IN ANY FORM that shows Ben spoke in favour of ANY of the Quinn family - a year later, we are still waiting.


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    #167
    joe swanson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Glad to see most people can see through the freemanism crap. Thought they'd be shilling like crazy like the shinnerbots do. It is unfortunate though that vulnerable people in financial trouble are being exploited by these nutjobs and believe that everything Will be alright quoting freemanism, when inevitably the opposite happens


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    #168
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    squod wrote: »
    There's various parties now looking for direct democracy across Europe. Turning down the opportunity have a real say through e-democracy or democracy through ballots on social networks is akin to shooting yourself in the foot IMO.

    Met Ben a couple of times. Good luck to him I say. Realistically I'd like a Pirate party or something similar to set up over here.

    Ben will tell you himself, he's no political professional.
    Like many in this country, he's also struggling to just survive economically.
    He's a humble electrician who is trying in his spare time, to make a difference.

    People might disagree with him, fair enough, but at least he got up and is trying to make a difference.
    To those that don't like what he might say - don't vote for him - but he will honestly ask you at least (and I have personally seen him say/do it) that you at least come out and vote!


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    #169
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,257 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Glad to see most people can see through the freemanism crap. Thought they'd be shilling like crazy like the shinnerbots do. It is unfortunate though that vulnerable people in financial trouble are being exploited by these nutjobs and believe that everything Will be alright quoting freemanism, when inevitably the opposite happens
    Probably off topic, actually definitely off topic, but there is one thing the freers and the shinners have in common. Neither recognise the 'no junk mail' label on my letterbox. Both qualify as junk mail. In fact if anything they're both overqualified. Can anything be done about this? A 'leave this address alone, they're not lunatics' list at head office or something? Is there some ancient brehon code at least that might keep the freemen away from me gaff?


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    #170
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    joe swanson wrote: »
    ...Thought they'd be shilling like crazy like the shinnerbots do...

    The mad thing is (and this is the truth) that some people that say they are shinners, are the actually ones going around spouting that all DDI members are Freemen!
    Seriously!
    Why? Because its suspected that they don't like that DDI managed to do in four months (and a hell of a lot less people on the ground) what they so far have not been able to do - and thats beat Labour presently in vote gains.
    The Meath-by election set alarm bells off in certain quarters.
    They didn't take us serious then - they really didn't but now they do - and they see us now as a serious, very serious threat to their party.
    ...So surprise... a lot of muck is now being thrown by some people very regular, in hope that some will stick!

    A poll was done recently by journal.ie I think and it showed by over 70% that people were genuinely looking for a fresh alternative.
    (I totally accept that any poll cannot be trusted to be accurate)

    The fact is though that certain parties - for definite, the workers party, the socialist workers party, the people before profit and their new front, the CAHWT (long story) sees DDI as a threat to their ability to get people elected.


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    #171
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    endacl wrote: »
    Probably off topic, actually definitely off topic, but there is one thing the freers and the shinners have in common. Neither recognise the 'no junk mail' label on my letterbox. Both qualify as junk mail. In fact if anything they're both overqualified. Can anything be done about this? A 'leave this address alone, they're not lunatics' list at head office or something? Is there some ancient brehon code at least that might keep the freemen away from me gaff?

    If this sign can keep away guards and TV license inspectors, surely it will work for freemen too??

    https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/door-notice.jpg


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    #172
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,257 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    If this sign can keep away guards and TV license inspectors, surely it will work for freemen too??

    https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/door-notice.jpg
    Can't put that on me door! That'd make me the OVI (Official Village Idiot*)!

    :D


    *post is assigned here by monthly rotation. Display of such a notice would make it a permanent position.


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    #173
    Leo Demidov
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Leo Demidov


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I take it a "Freeman" is someone who doesn't recognize the authority of the state or does it mean something else?

    A freeman is someone will to go to prison for...?

    Ironic methinks.


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    #174
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    What's very sad is that there is some clearly out to knock DDI via Ben Gilroy.
    Its tactic that been used before in regards other people and other parties - its a common thing to throw 'muck' in hope that some of it will stick.

    but this "muck" is already posted on Ben's door ???


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    #175
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    MadsL wrote: »
    but this "muck" is already posted on Ben's door ???

    Well the man must think there is something to it.
    I can't debate him on it because quiet honestly I know bugger all about any Freeman stuff.
    He don't mention it in DDI offices, He don't mention it in DDI meetings, He don't mention it outside with me or others I know.
    He just don't mention it!

    If its something he personally has some knowledge in at home, on own front door, who am I to interject when it completely is not effecting or equally not interjecting into DDI as an organisation or as policy initiatives.

    For example:
    My wife might thinking at home that my next door neighbour is an alien - but till that starts appearing in DDI documents, etc its not going to effect how I feel about Direct Democracy for Ireland.


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    #176
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    endacl wrote: »
    Can't put that on me door! That'd make me the OVI (Official Village Idiot*)!

    ..

    You could always try a sign reading "Occupants are members of the Church of Latter Day Saints,please ring bell for more information"

    You can specify whatever religion you're (un)comfortable with and report back on which is the most efffective anti-call device !!

    Also,when Francie Cullen was running his Plant Hire business,what attitude would he have adopted to a customer who refused to Pay for his services cos his Bill was only a Notice at Law....?

    Perhaps keeping Mr Cullen in the Joy is in his own best interests,as he sounds quite ready to embark on a bit of Kevin McKeeverism ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #177
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Biggins wrote: »
    Well the man must think there is something to it.
    I can't debate him on it because quiet honestly I know bugger all about any Freeman stuff.
    He don't mention it in DDI offices, He don't mention it in DDI meetings, He don't mention it outside with me or others I know.
    He just don't mention it!

    If its something he personally has some knowledge in at home, on own front door, who am I to interject when it completely is not effecting or equally not interjecting into DDI as an organisation or as policy initiatives.

    For example:
    My wife might thinking at home that my next door neighbour is an alien - but till that starts appearing in DDI documents, etc its not going to effect how I feel about Direct Democracy for Ireland.

    I really think you should ask the co founder of DDI what his views on freemanry are, if he hasn't mentioned it. You cannot separate the person from the politics.

    I'm still at a loss as to how a rational person could give political support (and their own political credibility) to a person when they don't know their political views. For that mistake you have lost credibility anyway.


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    #178
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mr Gilroy has NEVER gone on about any Freeman stuff to me or within my earshot at any time.
    He has never stated this stuff to others that I have talked to - and they have had no reason to lie to me to either. They are close friends.
    I've seen Ben appear in court before Birmingham J as McKenzie friend to Gerard Burns on 23rd April.

    I personally heard Ben putting Burns up to running a few Freman lines on the judge, saying that court orders were "unlawful", that he didn't consent and eventually, when pressed, that he would consent to give keys to a receiver "under duress", also asking for damages with no basis whatsoever except a Fremen notice of some sort. Ben wasn't entitled to speak himself, as is the way with McKenzie friends, but when the court rose, he started blathering on at the Gardaí who were present about oaths.

    Quacking very much like a duck from where I'm seeing it.

    Burns was given a day to hand over keys and alarm codes, which he didn't do and a warrant was issued for him to go to prison. Thankfully (for him), he saw sense and came in the following Monday to apologise and said he'd comply with the order: http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/businessman-purges-contempt-of-court-and-agrees-to-co-operate-with-receiver-229648.html

    Gerry Burns, of course, took a supporting role in one of Ben's famous videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mspzKgDoWGI

    Here's a hint - pretty much everything that's legal sounding coming out of Ben's mouth is utter tripe and very much bears the Mark of Woo. For one example, orders are generally signed by the Court registrar rather than the judge and the colour of ink makes, as you might have guessed, not the slightest bit of difference.

    Here's the thing: Ben's about self-promotion and nothing else. If you notice, it's all about big hero Ben coming to the rescue, the debtors in his videos barely get a look in, often aren't even referred to by name. He's dragging a bunch of people who know no better through a bunch of pointless litigation based on his crackpot ideas, only to end up in the same place they would have been had they complied with court orders in the first place, only with a sh!t tonne of additional legal costs added on to their debts.

    Thing is, I fully support people trying to deal with debt problems and have every sympathy, but Ben's "help" is really just about promoting Ben as saviour of the common man, not about actually helping debtors. Just check this out:
    On February 16th, our own Ben Gilroy decided to take a break from the twenty-four-seven job that is being Leader of Direct Democracy Ireland to enjoy a barbecue with his friends and family. Little did Ben know that a receiver was perhaps intentionally taking advantage of Ben’s small amount of relaxation, in the nearby county of Kildare. A receiver decided that the best way to carry out his impropery signed and therefore invalid court order was to physically wall a farmer and his family into their house.

    https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/receiver-walls-farmer-in/

    Yup, receivers are so terrified of our superhero that they watch his schedule and work around him. :rolleyes:

    Also guessing that he has some killer point about the colours of ink on the order that will definitely stand up in court and by no stretch of the imagination drag the farmer in question in to more pointless, costly litigation without any hope of a positive outcome.

    I know DDI is off topic, but from what I can see, there's a hotchpotch of hard Catholic right Christian Solidarity cast-offs and shysters like Ben at the heart of the party - I'd advise anyone who's serious about promoting Direct Democracy to dissociate themselves and start fresh - it's not a bad idea and deserves consideration.

    In summary, then, Ben deploys all kinds of Fremen tactics, alongside waffle about the constitution and other woo. Like a lot of things, he's happy enough to associate with them and have them promote him on their websites, but will deny them to the hilt when he knows he's talking to people who know better. As for OP, I'm not sure that Gilroy & Co. were involved, but I intend to find out....


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    #179
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Biggins, this freeman stuff comes up whenever BG or DDI is mentioned. As a member of DDI, is it not in your interest to ask BG straight out whether he is a freeman or not?


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    #180
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    I really think you should ask the co founder of DDI what his views on freemanry are, if he hasn't mentioned it. You cannot separate the person from the politics.

    I'm still at a loss as to how a rational person could give political support (and their own political credibility) to a person when they don't know their political views. For that mistake you have lost credibility anyway.

    Ben has spoken many times about his political views.
    In person and to the media.
    Not once has Freeman stuff come up.
    Now unless we all go "Jack Bauer" on his ass, what more can anyone do?
    Hold him down and water-torture him?

    Thanks but no.


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    #181
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Biggins, this freeman stuff comes up whenever BG or DDI is mentioned. As a member of DDI, is it not in your interest to ask BG straight out whether he is a freeman or not?

    See above also.

    On the topic, he has NEVER admitted to me, to being one.
    I have no reason to come out and call him a liar.


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