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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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    #3512
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    lots of kids back this morning around Dublin 15. Great to see so many cycling. A lot on the paths - hopefully the penny will drop with the council and join the dots where cycle lanes don't exist.


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    #3513
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Speeding breaks a law, but in terms of safety 101Kmh is not much different from 100kmh and so speeding is not a binary thing in terms of effect.
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not, and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.

    I'm not disagreeing as I hate cycling on the footpath but there is the odd justification like when a cycle path stops every 10 seconds to yield for a driveway or some just stop abruptly without reason and you have to use the path to get onto the road. This is particularly common on roundabout cycle paths. There are also way too many paths that cut right across the wait area/button for the green man


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    #3514
    DoraDelite
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭DoraDelite


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    lots of kids back this morning around Dublin 15. Great to see so many cycling. A lot on the paths - hopefully the penny will drop with the council and join the dots where cycle lanes don't exist.

    Noticed that also yesterday morning in D9. Loads of kids cycling to school but having to do it on the footpath as there isn't a single safe cycle lane in the area. When it's 20-30 kids on the path it's fairly a stark contrast to see. DCC should be embarrassed with how bad it really is.


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    #3515
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,623 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    at least they've started on a segregated cycle path along griffith avenue. seemed to start quickly and not a lot of progress on it though, from what little i've seen.


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    #3516
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    DoraDelite wrote: »
    Noticed that also yesterday morning in D9. Loads of kids cycling to school but having to do it on the footpath as there isn't a single safe cycle lane in the area. When it's 20-30 kids on the path it's fairly a stark contrast to see. DCC should be embarrassed with how bad it really is.

    Cycle lanes would be great but anyone who has a problem with kids cycling to school on footpaths just has a chip on their shoulder. For all the talk of kinetic energy and weight, bicycles are not harming anyone, except for the one or two posters here which cyclists are clearly targeting.


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    #3517
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,585 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I went through that argument with you several threads ago, not this thread but several ago, you can look up my answers to the same question there
    So presumably you break the speed limit routinely, like the vast majority of motorists, while banging on about the importance of 'respect for law' from other people, but not yourself.

    Similar to your own views on hi-vis really - something for other people, but not you.
    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Speeding breaks a law, but in terms of safety 101Kmh is not much different from 100kmh and so speeding is not a binary thing in terms of effect.
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not, and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.


    So there's absolutely no difference between cycling on the footpath at 5kmph with a child perhaps and tearing along the footpath at 30 kmph on a road bike?

    Good to know...

    Interesting perspective from the UK on some of the broader issues:
    https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1299256906632933376?s=20


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    #3518
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Speeding breaks a law, but in terms of safety 101Kmh is not much different from 100kmh [100% physics viewpoint] and so speeding is not a binary thing in terms of effect.
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not [100% legal view] , and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.


    Nonsense post. At least make some sort attempt to dress up your biased garbage.

    From a physics viewpoint, There's a whole spectrum of ways of cycling on the footpath, ranging from getting around respectfully and always giving priority to pedestrians to flying through crowded paths at 30kph like a king d**k. It's far from binary to anybody whose mind doesn't start frothing as soon as the topic of cycling comes up.

    Or if you want to use a legal view point, speeding of any sort is illegal. You're either speeding or you're not, so i'm pretty sure its as binary as cycling on the footpath.

    Pick whichever position you like, just try to have a modicum of consistency.


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Wonder what the effect is on the human torso of being hit by a 25mm bar in their midriff or small of the back with that kind of force?


    You'll probably need to carry on wondering since any documented examples of this very specific arrangement happening and with any sort of serious consequence seem to be pretty short supply.


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    #3519
    DoraDelite
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭DoraDelite


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Cycle lanes would be great but anyone who has a problem with kids cycling to school on footpaths just has a chip on their shoulder. For all the talk of kinetic energy and weight, bicycles are not harming anyone, except for the one or two posters here which cyclists are clearly targeting.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I have no issue with kids cycling on footpaths. I just thought when there was such large numbers of them that it made the absence of safe cycling infrastructure more obvious than usual. DCC need to get the finger out. DLRCC have already shown how quickly this type of infrastructure can be built. Just get it done!


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    #3520
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So presumably you break the speed limit routinely, like the vast majority of motorists, while banging on about the importance of 'respect for law' from other people, but not yourself.

    Similar to your own views on hi-vis really - something for other people, but not you.




    So there's absolutely no difference between cycling on the footpath at 5kmph with a child perhaps and tearing along the footpath at 30 kmph on a road bike?

    Good to know...

    Interesting perspective from the UK on some of the broader issues:
    https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1299256906632933376?s=20

    Me thinks you presume too much, use the search function, I think you were involved in the thread, if not then apologies but I'm not going through the same old tired arguments from cyclists.


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    #3521
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Duckjob wrote: »
    <snipped>






    You'll probably need to carry on wondering since any documented examples of this very specific arrangement happening and with any sort of serious consequence seem to be pretty short supply.

    That's why I'm wondering, anyone not got a thesis idea might be able to pick up on the effects of blunt force trauma caused by bicycle handlebars and brake levers on flesh and blood, of course to some cyclists they seem to think they don't hurt at all.


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    #3522
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    ?? I don’t see many cyclists cycling along holding a steel pipe out front like a sword? Any injuries from being impaled by the end of a handlebar are a risk taken by the cyclist, not a pedestrian. BTW that happened to me a few years ago. Yes it hurts... but I’m still here.

    I would have said impaled by a spear/sword if I meant a spear/sword, also you don't have to be impaled at all, blunt force trauma is where it's all at, even when involving cars there's very little impaling going on.


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    #3523
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Me thinks you presume too much, use the search function, I think you were involved in the thread, if not then apologies but I'm not going through the same old tired arguments from cyclists.

    Not going through the same old tired arguments but then has 2 more posts immediately after carrying on tired old arguements


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    #3524
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I would have said impaled by a spear/sword if I meant a spear/sword, also you don't have to be impaled at all, blunt force trauma is where it's all at, even when involving cars there's very little impaling going on.



    Ah My apologies.. my mistake. So the point your trying to make is even less relevant.


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    #3525
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,623 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    anyway, getting back to the thread title, it's quite clear what the main cause of cyclists cycling on footpaths is.
    it's motorists.
    so we fix the issue of cyclists on footpaths by tackling the motorists, cos it's all their fault.


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    #3526
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    That's why I'm wondering, anyone not got a thesis idea might be able to pick up on the effects of blunt force trauma caused by bicycle handlebars and brake levers on flesh and blood, of course to some cyclists they seem to think they don't hurt at all.

    But remember a cyclist can also be hurt if they collide with a pedestrian. The last death associated with a cyclist pedestrian collision was the cyclist involved. Who ends up being hurt more really depends on the nature of the collision. This alone gives any cyclist a very strong incentive to not hit a pedestrian because there's a decent chance they will get hurt potentially very badly. Which you can see by the relative lack of data on these collisions. And again nobody is saying cyclist pedestrian collisions are good. However for pedestrians as statistics show cars are a far bigger danger.


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    #3527
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Right so we are almost at 300 pages. Hands up anyone who has actually had their mind changed on this issue


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    #3528
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,585 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Me thinks you presume too much, use the search function, I think you were involved in the thread, if not then apologies but I'm not going through the same old tired arguments from cyclists.

    Couldn't find anything, except your persistent demands for speed limits for cyclists - a solution looking for a problem to solve.

    But gwan, tell us how you're the one taxi driver in Dublin who actually obeys traffic laws.


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    #3529
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Right so we are almost at 300 pages. Hands up anyone who has actually had their mind changed on this issue
    Right here.

    In my mind 3 things need to happen. 1) the statute of limitations of vandalism need to be removed, 2) Duckjob needs to be prosecuted for their heinous criminal activity as a child and 3) their family should be placed in indentured servitude to the owners/descendants of the owners of the vehicles they callously defaced.

    It might not be cheap to make these legal changes and track down the victims, but as a society we would all sleep a little safer at night if these kinds of criminals were not out roaming the streets with their dirty index fingers


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    #3530
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Not going through the same old tired arguments but then has 2 more posts immediately after carrying on tired old arguements

    You never heard of politness, I think he deserved an answer as I thought you deserved an answer, obviously I was wrong and as such apologies, now try avoiding the silliness you are trying to bring more of into the thread.


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    #3531
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Right here.

    In my mind 3 things need to happen. 1) the statute of limitations of vandalism need to be removed, 2) Duckjob needs to be prosecuted for their heinous criminal activity as a child and 3) their family should be placed in indentured servitude to the owners/descendants of the owners of the vehicles they callously defaced.

    It might not be cheap to make these legal changes and track down the victims, but as a society we would all sleep a little safer at night if these kinds of criminals were not out roaming the streets with their dirty index fingers


    Dammit! I fought so hard back in the day to claw myself up from that murky criminal underworld, and then 40 yrs later I go and incriminate myself on boards. I have the curtains closed now but I'm expecting that knock on the door anytime now ;)

    I can only hope that I don't have to share a cell with equally hard cases like those monsters that did knick-knacks on neighbours doors and ran away.


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    #3532
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    That's why I'm wondering, anyone not got a thesis idea might be able to pick up on the effects of blunt force trauma caused by bicycle handlebars and brake levers on flesh and blood, of course to some cyclists they seem to think they don't hurt at all.

    I see. Well, carry on wondering about stuff that statistically in the real world, is micro in comparison to other problems of road safety.


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    #3533
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Duckjob wrote: »
    I see. Well, carry on wondering about stuff that statistically in the real world, is micro in comparison to other problems of road safety.

    You'd be as well trying to get someone to sponsor research into the effects of standing on an upturned 3 pin plug and ways to prevent it.


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    #3534
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Dammit! I fought so hard back in the day to claw myself up from that murky criminal underworld, and then 40 yrs later I go and incriminate myself on boards. I have the curtains closed now but I'm expecting that knock on the door anytime now ;)

    I can only hope that I don't have to share a cell with equally hard cases like those monsters that did knick-knacks on neighbours doors and ran away.

    That brings back memories! ... Thugs committing trespass, vandalism (possible scratched on a door knocker, or footprints on the lawn!), resulting in post traumatic stress etc. etc.

    (or maybe just kids having a bit of harmless fun)


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    #3535
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Dammit! I fought so hard back in the day to claw myself up from that murky criminal underworld, and then 40 yrs later I go and incriminate myself on boards. I have the curtains closed now but I'm expecting that knock on the door anytime now ;)

    I can only hope that I don't have to share a cell with equally hard cases like those monsters that did knick-knacks on neighbours doors and ran away.

    "As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
    I take a look at my life and realize there's not much left
    'Coz I've been knick-knackin on doors so long, that
    Even my mama thinks that my mind is gone
    But I ain't never wrote on cars that didn't deserve it
    Ever wash your car you know that's unheard of"

    Coolio: Scrotebags Paradise


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    #3536
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Right so we are almost at 300 pages. Hands up anyone who has actually had their mind changed on this issue

    I think sean o'casey bridge should be demolished and a new multi-use bridge put back in it. Cyclists one one level and one level for pedestrians.


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    #3537
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I think sean o'casey bridge should be demolished and a new multi-use bridge put back in it. Cyclists one one level and one level for pedestrians.

    And heavily policed with armed guards on each end.


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    #3538
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    micar wrote: »
    You could the same thing about a parked car

    Pure whataboutery.......


    It is the reference to speeding that is whataboutery, since this thread is supposed to be about cycling on paths but has intentionally been derailed into matters that have nothing to do with this. It is remarkable how in this thread black becomes white.



    However, since you mentioned it, nobody has ever been struck by a parked car and some people are significantly penalised for leaving a car in a location for a slightly longer period of time. Does any cycling fine for a moving violation exceed the cost of unclamping a car?


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    #3539
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    That brings back memories! ... Thugs committing trespass, vandalism (possible scratched on a door knocker, or footprints on the lawn!), resulting in post traumatic stress etc. etc.

    (or maybe just kids having a bit of harmless fun)

    There wasn't a dirty vehicle around us that didnt escape a Gilroy

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_was_here


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    #3540
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    It is the reference to speeding that is whataboutery, since this thread is supposed to be about cycling on paths but has intentionally been derailed into matters that have nothing to do with this. It is remarkable how in this thread black becomes white.

    The reason the thread has gone away from the original complaint is one because bar children I don't think anyone here agrees with it. So nothing to argue about and two even for the cyclists who do cycle on the foothpath(who aren't children) it not really an issue/there are far bigger dangers for pedestrians. When you go looking for statistics you find very little/none. If it was a major problem you would have information.

    I imagine the complaint was correct. Anecdotally I've noticed more people cycling on footpaths primary children/teenagers. My guess is its related to the restrictions imposed by the Covid crisis. The vast majority of them in my experience are not going faster than the average jogger. So it's an non issue.

    And if you want to get adults off the foot path onto the road (the place I agree where they belong) you have to start asking why they don't cycle on the road. Talk to any inexperienced cyclist the biggest complaint/fear about cycling on the road is driver behaviour. So you can see where that leads the thread.


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    #3541
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I think sean o'casey bridge should be demolished and a new multi-use bridge put back in it. Cyclists one one level and one level for pedestrians.

    Reclaim the Liffey and make it a cycle path. Thats what the Dutch would do


This discussion has been closed.
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