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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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    #3482
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Among the best drivers in the world apparently, with no need for any further regulation.

    https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1298891170148503552?s=19

    And this puts the speed into context.

    https://twitter.com/brianymoran/status/1298893271515770880?s=19

    He's been regulated, he's been detained and charged, do you think we should start along the lines of Minority Report and charge people before they commit an offence?


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    #3483
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    IMO the driver should have stopped completely and only moved off once all adults/kids had passed.


    This. Or at very least slow right down to a crawl. Give people the respect of 5 f**king seconds of your time to let people get past safely and comfortably.

    Blindlingly simple concept to ensure the safety of other road users - and yet terrifyingly, it's such an alien concept to so many.


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    #3484
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Well in my mind you either respect the rule of law and common decency and respect for others property or you don't and if that means arguing/disagreeing with people on here, then so be it.

    So, absolutely no shades of grey then between kids finger-writing in the gunk on the back of a car, and say, going around smashing windows or slashing tyres ?

    Your world must be scary.


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    #3485
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,232 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Duckjob wrote: »
    So, absolutely no shades of grey then between kids finger-writing in the gunk on the back of a car, and say, going around smashing windows or slashing tyres ?

    Your world must be scary.

    Yeah i want to live in a world where Kids are arrested, handcuffed and removed from school in a police "cruiser" for being "Bold" in class. You know, like the US of A!


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    #3486
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    He's been regulated, he's been detained and charged, do you think we should start along the lines of Minority Report and charge people before they commit an offence?

    1) What percentage of speeding drivers are caught? (the 98% of drivers that break urban speed limits would be a good hint here)
    2) How long do you think it will take for the arrested driver to be back behind the wheel of a car breaking speed limits again?


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    #3487
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Duckjob wrote: »
    So, absolutely no shades of grey then between kids finger-writing in the gunk on the back of a car, and say, going around smashing windows or slashing tyres ?

    Your world must be scary.

    Respect or disrespect of property, give me a middle "grey" shade.


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    #3488
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Respect or disrespect of property, give me a middle "grey" shade.

    How about "scrotebag" or "not scrotebag" instead, since you were the one who applied the term to kids that finger-write on a manky car ?


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    #3489
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Respect or disrespect of property, give me a middle "grey" shade.

    Funny how much you have to say about this, and how little on certain other topics in discussion on the thread.

    How about respect or disrespect for peoples safety and lives ? Personally I'd consider the actions of the driver in the video above, passing an unprotected family on a narrow road without slowing down a lot more "scrotebaggy" .

    Tellingly though, and oh so predictably, you prefer to spend all your time posting about very minor infringements of property being "criminal damage" and how the kids who might do it are "scrotebags".


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    #3490
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,291 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Personally I'd reserve the "scrotebag" moniker for behaviors a tad more extreme than kids using their finger to write in the mank of a manky car/van, but hey, each to his own I guess.

    It's a tough life in the ghetto. Just trying to get by live a good life all while having to deal with the horrors of a child writing wash me on your car.

    But hey on the bright side at least you live in a rough slum where the kids can read and write


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    #3491
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,291 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Duckjob wrote: »
    This. Or at very least slow right down to a crawl. Give people the respect of 5 f**king seconds of your time to let people get past safely and comfortably.

    Blindlingly simple concept to ensure the safety of other road users - and yet terrifyingly, it's such an alien concept to so many.

    I must live a privileged life because I'm never going anywhere in such a hurry that I can't slow down for a child.


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    #3492
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    1) What percentage of speeding drivers are caught? (the 98% of drivers that break urban speed limits would be a good hint here)
    2) How long do you think it will take for the arrested driver to be back behind the wheel of a car breaking speed limits again?

    Doesn't matter, he was regulated.

    BTW the 98% is the 30Kph Urban speed limit, just so people know which figure you love to use.

    MAIN-HEADING-2020-08-27-13-46-06.png

    Where as the rate of speeding for cars in all limits is actually ( still an unacceptably high ) 46%

    Anyways to your question of how many drivers caught speeding.

    Last year:

    348 motorists were caught exceeded a 30km/ph speed limit.
    38,060 were detected exceeding a 50km/ph speed limit.
    19,367 were detected exceeding a 60km/ph speed limit.
    14,255 were detected exceeding a 80km/ph speed limit.
    19,944 were detected exceeding a 100km/ph speed limit.
    12,787 were detected exceeding a 120km/ph speed limit.

    Source https://www.thejournal.ie/penalty-points-figures-4955966-Jan2020/

    So hardly not being enforced or regulated

    The number of speed checks and radar traps in 30Kph zones would seem to be negligible ( in so far as I very rarely see one in Dublin city center ) compared to the speed checks and radar traps outside of the canal zone.

    Perhaps the number of posts on Garda Twitter might be used to show this as I don't recall many of them being of drivers caught speeding in the 30Kph areas, where as the number of drivers caught for drink/drug driving/no insurance/ etc. ( far worse crimes than doing 35-40 in a 30 zone ) would seem to be higher when rather than running 30 kph speed checks they actually run checkpoints.

    As to how long before he speeds again, who knows, if he's a career offender no punishment will deter him, even taking his car and crushing it isn't likely to act as a deterrent. Maybe you'd like him executed as that is the only surefire way to prevent him re offending


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    #3493
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Funny how much you have to say about this, and how little on certain other topics in discussion on the thread.

    How about respect or disrespect for peoples safety and lives ? Personally I'd consider the actions of the driver in the video above, passing an unprotected family on a narrow road without slowing down a lot more "scrotebaggy" .

    Tellingly though, and oh so predictably, you prefer to spend all your time posting about very minor infringements of property being "criminal damage" and how the kids who might do it are "scrotebags".

    Maybe that's more because I prefer to talk about the points I raise rather than posting to just agree with people.


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    #3494
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,291 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Respect or disrespect of property, give me a middle "grey" shade.

    So about 25 on the 50 shades of grey spectrum. What's would the punishment be ; )


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    #3495
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Maybe that's more because I prefer to talk about the points I raise rather than posting to just agree with people.

    I'm gratified to know that you find my posts so agreeable :D


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    #3496
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    So about 25 on the 50 shades of grey spectrum. What's would the punishment be ; )

    There is no 50 shades of grey, except in your liberal namby pamby world where scrotes don't deserve any punishment because sure, weren't they just having a lark.

    However in the real world, we do actually have laws and punishments proscribed by the judiciary, so perhaps you'd like to direct that at a member of the judiciary.
    However the range of punishments available to them is wide ranging as set in law.


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    #3497
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Duckjob wrote: »
    I'm gratified to know that you find my posts so agreeable :D

    I'm not posting on any sections that agree with you, perhaps, you misunderstood the point.


  • Options
    #3498
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There is no 50 shades of grey, except in your liberal namby pamby world where scrotes don't deserve any punishment because sure, weren't they just having a lark.

    However in the real world, we do actually have laws and punishments proscribed by the judiciary, so perhaps you'd like to direct that at a member of the judiciary.
    However the range of punishments available to them is wide ranging as set in law.


    I've no problem admitting - I was that "scrote". Definitely wrote on a few dirty cars / vans when I was a kid. Even at that age I would have been appalled at the idea of anyone slashing a tyre or breaking a window though.

    Somehow I still managed to grow from that "scrote" into a reasonably responsible adult.

    Are you going to tell us all now that you never ever wrote on a dirty car as a kid ?


  • Options
    #3499
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,291 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There is no 50 shades of grey, except in your liberal namby pamby world where scrotes don't deserve any punishment because sure, weren't they just having a lark.

    However in the real world, we do actually have laws and punishments proscribed by the judiciary, so perhaps you'd like to direct that at a member of the judiciary.
    However the range of punishments available to them is wide ranging as set in law.

    I'm pretty sure there was definitely punishment handed out in 50 shades of grey for people who were naughty


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    #3500
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,232 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Doesn't matter, he was regulated.

    BTW the 98% is the 30Kph Urban speed limit, just so people know which figure you love to use.

    MAIN-HEADING-2020-08-27-13-46-06.png

    Where as the rate of speeding for cars in all limits is actually ( still an unacceptably high ) 46%

    Anyways to your question of how many drivers caught speeding.

    Last year:

    348 motorists were caught exceeded a 30km/ph speed limit.
    38,060 were detected exceeding a 50km/ph speed limit.
    19,367 were detected exceeding a 60km/ph speed limit.
    14,255 were detected exceeding a 80km/ph speed limit.
    19,944 were detected exceeding a 100km/ph speed limit.
    12,787 were detected exceeding a 120km/ph speed limit.

    Source https://www.thejournal.ie/penalty-points-figures-4955966-Jan2020/

    So hardly not being enforced or regulated

    The number of speed checks and radar traps in 30Kph zones would seem to be negligible ( in so far as I very rarely see one in Dublin city center ) compared to the speed checks and radar traps outside of the canal zone.

    Perhaps the number of posts on Garda Twitter might be used to show this as I don't recall many of them being of drivers caught speeding in the 30Kph areas, where as the number of drivers caught for drink/drug driving/no insurance/ etc. ( far worse crimes than doing 35-40 in a 30 zone ) would seem to be higher when rather than running 30 kph speed checks they actually run checkpoints.

    As to how long before he speeds again, who knows, if he's a career offender no punishment will deter him, even taking his car and crushing it isn't likely to act as a deterrent. Maybe you'd like him executed as that is the only surefire way to prevent him re offending

    A few rocks would sort this out.

    https://twitter.com/thefireuk/status/1298642552170721282?s=21


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    #3501
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Well in my mind you either respect the rule of law and common decency and respect for others property or you don't and if that means arguing/disagreeing with people on here, then so be it.

    So just to be clear, you NEVER break the speed limit yourself, right? Never - no grey area, no namby pamby excuses - just respect for the rule of law and common decency - yeah?


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    #3502
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Speeding breaks a law, but in terms of safety 101Kmh is not much different from 100kmh and so speeding is not a binary thing in terms of effect.
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not, and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.


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    #3503
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So just to be clear, you NEVER break the speed limit yourself, right? Never - no grey area, no namby pamby excuses - just respect for the rule of law and common decency - yeah?

    I went through that argument with you several threads ago, not this thread but several ago, you can look up my answers to the same question there


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    #3504
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭micar


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not, and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.

    You could the same thing about a parked car

    Pure whataboutery.......


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    #3505
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,129 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Speeding breaks a law, but in terms of safety 101Kmh is not much different from 100kmh and so speeding is not a binary thing in terms of effect.
    Cycling on the footpath is binary, you are either on the footpath or you are not, and so there is no justification for it whatsoever.
    another way at looking at your binary calculation.
    a 1.5 ton car doing 100km/h has a kinetic energy of 578704J
    a 1.5 ton car doing 101km/h has a kinetic energy of 590336J

    a combined cyclist+bike weighing 80KG doing 20km/h on a footpath has a kinetic energy of 1234J.

    in short, that trivial 1km/h increase in speed is an increase in kinetic energy nearly ten times what a cyclist might be carrying on a footpath.

    or another way, a cyclist (combined weight of cyclist and bike of 80KG) going from 0 to 60km/h adds less to their kinetic energy than a car going from 100 to 101km/h.


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    #3506
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    another way at looking at your binary calculation.
    a 1.5 ton car doing 100km/h has a kinetic energy of 578704J
    a 1.5 ton car doing 101km/h has a kinetic energy of 590336J

    a combined cyclist+bike weighing 80KG doing 20km/h on a footpath has a kinetic energy of 1234J.

    in short, that trivial 1km/h increase in speed is an increase in kinetic energy nearly ten times what a cyclist might be carrying on a footpath.

    or another way, a cyclist (combined weight of cyclist and bike of 80KG) going from 0 to 60km/h adds less to their kinetic energy than a car going from 100 to 101km/h.

    The super-lightweight cyclist-and-bike combo you postulate might only have a kinetic energy of 1.2kJ, but it does not require a force 1.2kJ to injure someone, cause them to drop their belongings, knock them over, cause them to jump out of the way - possibly into traffic, or cause them needless distress. On a bike on the footpath? Dismount, and wheel it. Simple.


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    #3507
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    TaurenDruid wrote: »
    The super-lightweight cyclist-and-bike combo you postulate might only have a kinetic energy of 1.2kJ, but it does not require a force 1.2kJ to injure someone, cause them to drop their belongings, knock them over, cause them to jump out of the way - possibly into traffic, or cause them needless distress. On a bike on the footpath? Dismount, and wheel it. Simple.

    Wonder what the effect is on the human torso of being hit by a 25mm bar in their midriff or small of the back with that kind of force?


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    #3508
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    another way at looking at your binary calculation.
    a 1.5 ton car doing 100km/h has a kinetic energy of 578704J
    a 1.5 ton car doing 101km/h has a kinetic energy of 590336J

    a combined cyclist+bike weighing 80KG doing 20km/h on a footpath has a kinetic energy of 1234J.

    in short, that trivial 1km/h increase in speed is an increase in kinetic energy nearly ten times what a cyclist might be carrying on a footpath.

    or another way, a cyclist (combined weight of cyclist and bike of 80KG) going from 0 to 60km/h adds less to their kinetic energy than a car going from 100 to 101km/h.
    Imagine being on a popular TV or Radio programme and making that argument.
    Do you think the audience or listeners/viewers would be won over to your side by it?
    It's embarrassing, but not as much as this sh*t show of a thread and the moderation of it.
    This thread was created to complain about cycling on footpaths and wind cyclists up.
    But rather than take it on the chin and not rise to the bait, certain posters from the cycling forum just can't let it go.


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    #3509
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,129 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    TaurenDruid wrote: »
    The super-lightweight cyclist-and-bike combo you postulate might only have a kinetic energy of 1.2kJ, but it does not require a force 1.2kJ to injure someone, cause them to drop their belongings, knock them over, cause them to jump out of the way - possibly into traffic, or cause them needless distress. On a bike on the footpath? Dismount, and wheel it. Simple.
    I never claimed otherwise. I was bemused at the 'speeding is not really speeding but cycling on footpaths is dangerous' argument.


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    #3510
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,129 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Imagine being on a popular TV or Radio programme and making that argument.
    this is not a popular TV or radio program.
    you could make the above argument about probably every single post in this thread. or the vast majority of posts on boards.


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    #3511
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,232 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Wonder what the effect is on the human torso of being hit by a 25mm bar in their midriff or small of the back with that kind of force?

    ?? I don’t see many cyclists cycling along holding a steel pipe out front like a sword? Any injuries from being impaled by the end of a handlebar are a risk taken by the cyclist, not a pedestrian. BTW that happened to me a few years ago. Yes it hurts... but I’m still here.


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