Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

Are Am Eye · 02-02-2018 9:57am

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

i personally think its a great idea, protection of life, yer are all been watched, try to minimize gangland killings.

You're absolutely right. But that is an overt surveillance operation.

Wanderer78 · 02-02-2018 9:58am

the sheriff is HERE wrote:

i personally think its a great idea, protection of life, yer are all been watched, try to minimize gangland killings.

But they already know they're being watched by law enforcement and other criminals

Captain Obvious · 02-02-2018 11:18am

Are Am Eye wrote: »

You're absolutely right. But that is an overt surveillance operation.

No, overt surveillance would be what they did to The General. Openly following him and taking pictures. Covert surveillance would be where the surveillance is not noticeable. They might know they are under surveillance but they don't know by who or how.

Cazale · 02-02-2018 12:33pm

The photo identification of Patrick Hutch has been ruled admissible by the judge so the trial continues.

Suckit · 02-02-2018 12:33pm

I don't think them knowing they are being watched will deter the scumbags that much. I reckon it will just push them to use new tactics and maybe find new ways to hide in the open. I don't think it will stop any murders, maybe just move the planned location, i.e. less likely to fire upon a house.

I read an article last night before bed that said they believe the kinahans are funding the Ballymun faction to take them out, but i cannot find the article.

There is another picture of Cumberton in this article, is that cropped from the same picture that was in the other thread, that had a celebrity and the suspect in the Gareth Hutch murder who was caught in the UK?

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0129/936786-sunset-house/

benny79 · 02-02-2018 1:24pm

Cazale wrote: »

The photo identification of Patrick Hutch has been ruled admissible by the judge so the trial continues.

He will definitely walk now sure what other evidence is there?

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 1:28pm

benny79 wrote: »

He will definitely walk now sure what other evidence is there?

the evidence was ruled admissible not inadmissible so he will definitely not walk.

begbysback · 02-02-2018 2:00pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the evidence was ruled admissible not inadmissible so he will definitely not walk.

Not so sure - if what I read is true, that only 2 out of some hundred could identify the person in the photo, then he should still walk, unless some sort of facial recognition technology is also used as evidence.

It would make the DPP and the Garda a joke if he walks - so somehow I think a non jury court will see he doesn't, given the current climate.

Suckit · 02-02-2018 2:07pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-release-cctv-images-of-car-used-in-hutch--kinahan-feud-shooting-826067.html

Gardaí release CCTV images of car used in Hutch - Kinahan feud shooting

Gardaí investigating the murder of Derek Coakley Hutch have released CCTV images of the car they believe was used by the suspects.

Derek Hutch, also known as Derek Coakley, was shot dead at the Bridgeview Halting Site in Ronanstown almost two weeks ago.

The 27-year-old had previously been warned his life was in danger. The father-of-two was buried in Glasnevin Cemetery and is survived by his mother Noleen, his partner Nikita, his children and his brother Nathan.

He is the 14th victim of the ongoing Hutch - Kinahan feud in the city.

Detectives are trying to establish the movements of a black Toyota Avensis registration 04-D-72956 in the days prior to the murder, and the hours immediately after it.

It is believed that those involved in the murder transferred to the Avensis at Crag Avenue, Clondalkin, Dublin 22 after setting fire to a VW Golf, registration 05-CE-1675, which was used in the murder.

The Avensis was then found on fire at Snowdrop Walk, Darndale, Dublin 17 at 6.25pm on the January 20, just over three hours after the murder.

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 2:09pm

begbysback wrote: »

Not so sure - if what I read is true, that only 2 out of some hundred could identify the person in the photo, then he should still walk, unless some sort of facial recognition technology is also used as evidence.

It would make the DPP and the Garda a joke if he walks - so somehow I think a non jury court will see he doesn't, given the current climate.

the court has decided that the evidence is admissible. They accept that he was the person dressed as a woman.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0202/937822-regency/

begbysback · 02-02-2018 2:16pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the court has decided that the evidence is admissible. They accept that he was the person dressed as a woman.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0202/937822-regency/

Don't have a great legal understanding here, but I believe that states it has been accepted as evedince, rather than fact it is him in the picture - difference being that no judgement has been made whether it is him or not in the picture, just that the picture can be presented as evidence.

And imo, on its own, insufficient for a conviction.

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 2:35pm

begbysback wrote: »

Don't have a great legal understanding here, but I believe that states it has been accepted as evedince, rather than fact it is him in the picture - difference being that no judgement has been made whether it is him or not in the picture, just that the picture can be presented as evidence.

And imo, on its own, insufficient for a conviction.

the evidence will be that it was him dressed as a woman. shown carrying a handgun into the hotel. the defence will have a hard time convincing a judge otherwise. he's fecked. his only chance of getting off with this is gone.

begbysback · 02-02-2018 2:41pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the evidence will be that it was him dressed as a woman. shown carrying a handgun into the hotel. the defence will have a hard time convincing a judge otherwise. he's fecked. his only chance of getting off with this is gone.

Like I already said, if what I read is true then the prosecution can present 2 people who say they are sure it's him, the defence can present 20 who say they cannot identify him as the person in the picture, and they already knew him.

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 2:49pm

begbysback wrote: »

Like I already said, if what I read is true then the prosecution can present 2 people who say they are sure it's him, the defence can present 20 who say they cannot identify him as the person in the picture, and they already knew him.

"I cannot identify him" is not the same as "it isn't him".

pablo128 · 02-02-2018 2:55pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"I cannot identify him" is not the same as "it isn't him".

Well you could say the same about the prosecution so.

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 3:05pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Well you could say the same about the prosecution so.

except the prosecution have witnesses that say it is him

Benteke · 02-02-2018 3:06pm

admissible
ədˈmɪsɪb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
acceptable or valid, especially as evidence in a court of law.
"the tape recording was admissible as evidence"
synonyms: allowable, allowed, permissible, permitted, acceptable, passable, tolerable, satisfactory, justifiable, defensible, supportable, well founded, tenable, sound, sensible, reasonable; More

I just thought I would post this for those who are struggling to understand the concept of how the law works

the sheriff is HERE · 02-02-2018 3:36pm

Reg: 10D126064
Vehicle: 2010 Renault Kangoo ML19 85 DCI 5DR
Colour: White

Vehicle Registration Number: 10D126064
Vehicle Details: RENAULT / KANGOO
Change Of Vehicle Ownership

No Changes notified in the last 3 months
Vehicle Registration Certificate

No Vehicle Registration Certificate issued in the last: 3months

Any way of a person to find out if a van/car is stolen because it seems the day of stealing cars for hits are gone and they aint no bangers.

Captain Obvious · 02-02-2018 3:47pm

Don't need to steal a car. The registration of vehicles is a joke in this country. Buy a car from someone on Done Deal and give them fake name and address. Safer than driving around in a stolen car.

the sheriff is HERE · 02-02-2018 3:52pm

the van has me puzzled, maybe from a car dealership, it wouldn't if bought cost hundreds more like thousands.

would the ballymun guy, be flush with cash and gun used roughly 1000 dollars from what ive seen, and just left in the van.

another question is ken foy for the herald and independent a real person or a pseudonym?

pablo128 · 02-02-2018 4:23pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

except the prosecution have witnesses that say it is him

They can say it is him all they like. They have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt though.

#Smokey# · 02-02-2018 4:27pm

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

the van has me puzzled, maybe from a car dealership, it wouldn't if bought cost hundreds more like thousands.

would the ballymun guy, be flush with cash and gun used roughly 1000 dollars from what ive seen, and just left in the van.

another question is ken foy for the herald and independent a real person or a pseudonym?

glocks are around 2/2.5k euro and i think only makarovs and other 9x18mm pistols are a good bit cheaper as the S&B rounds are harder to come by as a standard 9mm is 9x19mm .

With the price of stuff so low from holland and the uk spending 3-4k to take someone out would barely be 2 weeks profits if that

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 4:35pm

pablo128 wrote: »

They can say it is him all they like. They have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt though.

It is the special criminal court. No jury. he is fecked.

Benteke · 02-02-2018 4:36pm

pablo128 wrote: »

They can say it is him all they like. They have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt though.

They just need to convince 3 judges and they have because they have allowed it as evidence, You know this is in the special criminals court don't you?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 02-02-2018 5:19pm

I frequent a few organised crime sites around the internet and everyone agrees that this Irish thing is insane. It's like Chicago in the 1920s, lads been gunned down right left and centre on the streets.

The likes of the mob in New York these days only use murder as a last resort, and even then they dispose of the body. They realised that the crazy days of past decades caused massive damage to all five families with numerous members going down for life. Their lot has improved in recent years since the decision was made to cutback on senseless violence, coupled with the fact that the Feds began focusing more on terrorism post 9/11.

These Irish don't seem to have the sense to realise that murder is bad for business

Odelay · 02-02-2018 5:22pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I frequent a few organised crime sites around the internet and everyone agrees that this Irish thing is insane. It's like Chicago in the 1920s, lads been gunned down right left and centre on the streets.

The likes of the mob in New York these days only use murder as a last resort, and even then they dispose of the body. They realised that the crazy days of past decades caused massive damage to all five families with numerous members going down for life. Their lot has improved in recent years since the decision was made to cutback on senseless violence, coupled with the fact that the Feds began focusing more on terrorism post 9/11.

These Irish don't seem to have the sense to realise that murder is bad for business

What sites do you read?

thebaz · 02-02-2018 5:27pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I frequent a few organised crime sites around the internet and everyone agrees that this Irish thing is insane. It's like Chicago in the 1920s, lads been gunned down right left and centre on the streets.

The likes of the mob in New York these days only use murder as a last resort, and even then they dispose of the body. They realised that the crazy days of past decades caused massive damage to all five families with numerous members going down for life. Their lot has improved in recent years since the decision was made to cutback on senseless violence, coupled with the fact that the Feds began focusing more on terrorism post 9/11.

These Irish don't seem to have the sense to realise that murder is bad for business

thers gangland shootings in south Chicago, Memphis and St Louis most nights - gangs have changed - yes New York crime has certainly gone down.

Captain Obvious · 02-02-2018 5:28pm

Benteke wrote: »

They just need to convince 3 judges and they have because they have allowed it as evidence, You know this is in the special criminals court don't you?

My understanding is they have accepted it is evidence but they haven't ruled on how compelling it it. They might still decide two Gardaí isn't convincing enough to convict.

yourdeadwright · 02-02-2018 5:37pm

thebaz wrote: »

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I frequent a few organised crime sites around the internet and everyone agrees that this Irish thing is insane. It's like Chicago in the 1920s, lads been gunned down right left and centre on the streets.

The likes of the mob in New York these days only use murder as a last resort, and even then they dispose of the body. They realised that the crazy days of past decades caused massive damage to all five families with numerous members going down for life. Their lot has improved in recent years since the decision was made to cutback on senseless violence, coupled with the fact that the Feds began focusing more on terrorism post 9/11.

These Irish don't seem to have the sense to realise that murder is bad for business

thers gangland shootings in south Chicago, Memphis and St Louis most nights - gangs have changed - yes New York crime has certainly gone down.

I think the the gangs in Chicago and Memphis are not seen as organised crime in the states,
They tend to only use that terminology organised Crime for Cartel's and Mafia in the states, the shooting's in Chicago are seen as street gangs, who tend to stick to there own [font=Arial","sans-serif]Neighbourhood ,I know its still murder and gangs but there seen differently[/font]
[font=Arial","sans-serif]The US see Organised Crime as a treat to the nation but street gangs are a locally based issue to the Police or FBI[/font]

Benteke · 02-02-2018 5:43pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

My understanding is they have accepted it is evidence but they haven't ruled on how compelling it it. They might still decide two Gardaí isn't convincing enough to convict.

They could but my money is on him been fecked

hatrickpatrick · 02-02-2018 6:05pm

It was such a stupid thing to do, tbh it really baffles me. Rest of the hit team specifically wore counterfeit ERU uniforms so they could hide their faces, why the hell did one of them (not saying it's the guy currently on trial unless he's convicted obviously) decide to do the drag thing instead?

Lifelong suppressed crossdressing fantasies? Decided this might be his last chance to live out his dream given the risk of being shot and killed during the attack?

Captain Obvious · 02-02-2018 6:07pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It was such a stupid thing to do, tbh it really baffles me. Rest of the hit team specifically wore counterfeit ERU uniforms so they could hide their faces, why the hell did one of them (not saying it's the guy currently on trial unless he's convicted obviously) decide to do the drag thing instead?

Lifelong suppressed crossdressing fantasies? Decided this might be his last chance to live out his dream given the risk of being shot and killed during the attack?

He could have been the scout.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 02-02-2018 6:09pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think the the gangs in Chicago and Memphis are not seen as organised crime in the states,
They tend to only use that terminology organised Crime for Cartel's and Mafia in the states, the shooting's in Chicago are seen as street gangs, who tend to stick to there own [font=Arial","sans-serif]Neighbourhood ,I know its still murder and gangs but there seen differently[/font]
[font=Arial","sans-serif]The US see Organised Crime as a treat to the nation but street gangs are a locally based issue to the Police or FBI[/font]

Yeah that's pretty much it. Street gangs are not on the FBI radar, that's an issue for local law enforcement.

FBI tend deal with high level organised crime, like you mentioned, Mexican Cartels, Italian Mafia, Russian Mob.

SEPT 23 1989 · 02-02-2018 6:46pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It was such a stupid thing to do, tbh it really baffles me. Rest of the hit team specifically wore counterfeit ERU uniforms so they could hide their faces, why the hell did one of them (not saying it's the guy currently on trial unless he's convicted obviously) decide to do the drag thing instead?

Lifelong suppressed crossdressing fantasies? Decided this might be his last chance to live out his dream given the risk of being shot and killed during the attack?

Because he could move freely inside the place and pick his moment

King of Kings · 02-02-2018 9:14pm

Benteke wrote: »

They could but my money is on him been fecked

judges are more likely to be ruled by the law and will certainly let a guilty person go if the evidence doesn't stack up whereas the average joe on the jury can (and is) swayed by emotion.
The judges can be heartless and driven by the law and evidence alone - same court let Gilligan go on the murder charge

in short , if I was him I'd be happier judges are reviewing that photo than the people in this thread.

ohnonotgmail · 02-02-2018 9:17pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It was such a stupid thing to do, tbh it really baffles me. Rest of the hit team specifically wore counterfeit ERU uniforms so they could hide their faces, why the hell did one of them (not saying it's the guy currently on trial unless he's convicted obviously) decide to do the drag thing instead?

Lifelong suppressed crossdressing fantasies? Decided this might be his last chance to live out his dream given the risk of being shot and killed during the attack?

well apart from the guy who thought a flat cap was a cunning disguise.

pablo128 · 02-02-2018 9:19pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well apart from the guy who thought a flat cap was a cunning disguise.

I'd say he knew he hadn't long left in this world and didn't give a fcuk. He died not long after from a degenerative disease.

Benteke · 02-02-2018 10:36pm

King of Kings wrote: »

judges are more likely to be ruled by the law and will certainly let a guilty person go if the evidence doesn't stack up whereas the average joe on the jury can (and is) swayed by emotion.
The judges can be heartless and driven by the law and evidence alone - same court let Gilligan go on the murder charge

in short , if I was him I'd be happier judges are reviewing that photo than the people in this thread.

Quite the opposite, it would be easier to get off if it was up to people on this thread, Do you know how many people walk from the special criminal courts? Answers on a post card

They pretty much gave Gilligan a murder charge with the drugs charge, Swings and round abouts they were going to do him whatever and they did just like everyone else that enters that courtroom

King of Kings · 02-02-2018 11:12pm

Benteke wrote: »

Quite the opposite, it would be easier to get off if it was up to people on this thread, Do you know how many people walk from the special criminal courts? Answers on a post card

you should check the stats

2015 most recent year
29 "outcomes" 16 acquittals....
quite a few acquittals me old flower - far from a foregone conclusion

I'll accept 2014 isn't a generous to the accused ....but the point remains.

Stats Galore !

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/Library3.nsf/pagecurrent/7F9E6DAD609B2C888025802D002B407F?opendocument

Benteke wrote: »

They pretty much gave Gilligan a murder charge with the drugs charge, Swings and round abouts they were going to do him whatever and they did just like everyone else that enters that courtroom

this just isn't true - Gilligan is out and about quite some time
Brian Meehan is still pulling his flute in PortLaoise....despite being locked up before Gilliagan

go figure...

Benteke · 02-02-2018 11:28pm

King of Kings wrote: »

you should check the stats

2015 most recent year
29 "outcomes" 16 acquittals....
quite a few acquittals me old flower - far from a foregone conclusion

I'll accept 2014 isn't a generous to the accused ....but the point remains.

Stats Galore !

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/Library3.nsf/pagecurrent/7F9E6DAD609B2C888025802D002B407F?opendocument

this just isn't true - Gilligan is out and about quite some time
Brian Meehan is still pulling his flute in PortLaoise....despite being locked up before Gilliagan

go figure...

He got the longest stretch for a drug crime in the history of the state, It's obvious to many he got extra time for getting away with the murder charge as I said swings and round abouts

As for the acquittals, This is a feud that looks like it won't end anytime soon and the guy on trial has his face all over the papers with a gun in his hand, i knew who it was straight away and i'm sure the judges do too and that's why it's allowed in evidence, The guy sentenced to life last week got sent down because of dna evidence that was allowed even after they brought specialists over from the US to say their was a number of dna in the masks they used, Without going through all the other cases over the years to see what sort of evidence was used, i can only go by these 2 cases and to put it brutally as I can

He is fecked

refusetolose · 02-02-2018 11:38pm

michael o toole will be on the late late soon talking about the fued

https://twitter.com/mickthehack/status/959487515462955008

avalidusername · 02-02-2018 11:59pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It was such a stupid thing to do, tbh it really baffles me..........decide to do the drag thing instead?

I find it strange too. The key to any disguise is being completely inconspicuous and not notable at all. Had it been a believable drag attempt then it may have been seen as a very well planned hit, however some of the Regency staff and event attendees court evidence a few weeks ago makes it out to be a bad attempt, thus quite conspicuous and a crap disguise. Dunno if I can post links but google accounts department regency drag from jan 12th, the Mirror and Times have reports on it.

I've never had reason to hide my identity, but if I did I wouldn't consider going in drag. Maybe shave the head or wear a believable mans wig (if such a thing exists), have a goatee or 'tache (assuming the hit was planned a while in advance), wear a pair of glasses, or a baseball cap, that kind of thing. I sure as hell wouldn't be stumbling in heels and trying to keep a long haired wig out of my face while trying to run from a murder scene!

KM792 · 03-02-2018 1:09am

Michael O'Toole just on the late late having his say...
As regards the Kinahan brothers,do they both reside in Dubai?Even with all that money it cannot be considered a good quality of life,if you are constantly looking over your shoulder and never quite living a "normal" life,are they ever spotted in public(shops,restaurants,etc?)
I remember seeing a photo posted to twitter last year of Daniel Kinahan in a London pub with Tyson Fury..hard to imagine you would walk into a bar and find him sitting having a drink..

King of Kings · 03-02-2018 10:03am

Benteke wrote: »

He got the longest stretch for a drug crime in the history of the state, It's obvious to many he got extra time for getting away with the murder charge as I said swings and round abouts

it wasn't the longest....
Judd Scanlon - 1999 and that sentence stood.
*although the conviction was later quashed in 2005

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/major-drugs-dealer-is-sentenced-to-22-years-in-prison-1.199988

Gilligan was convicted in 2002 and the sentence was 20 on appeal.

Benteke · 03-02-2018 12:10pm

King of Kings wrote: »

it wasn't the longest....
Judd Scanlon - 1999 and that sentence stood.
*although the conviction was later quashed in 2005

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/major-drugs-dealer-is-sentenced-to-22-years-in-prison-1.199988

Gilligan was convicted in 2002 and the sentence was 20 on appeal.

Edward Judd Scanlon who had been jailed for 22 years in 1999 for 22 for drugs offences. Scanlon, 56, later successfully appealed the sentence

He did not do 22 years, Back on topic

He is fecked

Suckit · 03-02-2018 1:13pm

KM792 wrote: »

I remember seeing a photo posted to twitter last year of Daniel Kinahan in a London pub with Tyson Fury..hard to imagine you would walk into a bar and find him sitting having a drink..

They have an entourage of bodyguards that will probably shoot first. Although they are probably less safe now if the rumours are to be believed. Some believe the Kinahans started the feud between the Turtles and another Dutch/Belgian gang that has spilled through Europe, and allegedly some Russians would like to see the back of them for creating so much attention. That coupled with the media reporting they are about to get kicked out of Dubai, and may have mounting evidence against them, they will do well to survive this year without any serious repercussions.

Benteke wrote: »

He got the longest stretch for a drug crime in the history of the state, It's obvious to many he got extra time for getting away with the murder charge..
He is fecked

OT, apologies, but Look up "White Boy Rick" I think there is a movie coming out this year or next. Just reminded me, he has watched murderers come and go while he is still locked up. Including people he helped put away for murder.
https://www.thefix.com/content/white-boy-rick-Richard-Wershe-Michigan-650-Lifer-Law-seth-ferranti0515

Benteke · 03-02-2018 4:37pm

Suckit wrote: »

OT, apologies, but Look up "White Boy Rick" I think there is a movie coming out this year or next. Just reminded me, he has watched murderers come and go while he is still locked up. Including people he helped put away for murder.
https://www.thefix.com/content/white-boy-rick-Richard-Wershe-Michigan-650-Lifer-Law-seth-ferranti0515

I read that story before, Detroit police corruption at it's finest

Cazale · 03-02-2018 5:08pm

Anybody see the footage of the afters of Derek Hutch funeral. It looked like Ireland were playing in the World Cup mixed with a rave.

Suckit · 03-02-2018 5:48pm

Cazale wrote: »

Anybody see the footage of the afters of Derek Hutch funeral. It looked like Ireland were playing in the World Cup mixed with a rave.

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/959792157828763649

pablo128 · 03-02-2018 6:46pm

It looks like he got a good send off.

Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

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