Pro's and con's of Leaf

09-05-2016 10:33PM

Drive an ICE at 120 Kph on the same amount of "fuel" a leaf has and see how far you'd get.

BoatMad · 09-05-2016 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Drive an ICE at 120 Kph on the same amount of "fuel" a leaf has and see how far you'd get.

+1

September1 · 10-05-2016 08:09AM

So if battery costs 1.40 to fill up and if you drive fast you can hypothetically cover 50 miles and 100 miles if you drive slowly, then it means that fast driving _costs_ twice as much per mile (1.4c vs 2.8c). So velocity has influence on amount of energy required to move vehicle and as electricity is sold in energy units it means higher speed is reflected in higher consumption.

10-05-2016 09:42AM

September1 wrote: »

So if battery costs 1.40 to fill up and if you drive fast you can hypothetically cover 50 miles and 100 miles if you drive slowly, then it means that fast driving _costs_ twice as much per mile (1.4c vs 2.8c). So velocity has influence on amount of energy required to move vehicle and as electricity is sold in energy units it means higher speed is reflected in higher consumption.

Just like an ICE, the faster you drive the more fuel you consume, ICE is very inefficient and less so at higher speeds just like any vehicle due to wind resistance.

But just like an ICE the average speeds are far less than 120+ Kph as anyone who has a trip computer will see, for instance my average most days driving to work and back might be 70-85Kph because I'm not always on the motorway for the duration and having recently acquired 3 points and 80 Euro's fine I'll have to reduce that a little lol.

22 Kwh is equivalent to 1.91 litres of Diesel.

So if on the motorway getting 22 Kwh/100 kms driving 120-130 Kph in a Leaf and 5.8 L/100 kms in the diesel is 17.24 Kms per litre you can see that on the same amount of fuel the Diesel will not travel very far, not more than 27 Kms and that's provided your consumption is 5.8L/100 kms at 120-130 kph, I expect it to be more like 6.

So the Leaf is still about twice as efficient at high speeds and more so in slower driving especially town and city driving. Twice as efficient at high speeds and the fuel for an EV costs substantially less not even considering free public charging.

My average consumption however is 17.5 Kwh/100 km since I got the Leaf almost 1 year 5 months ago and 37,500 kms because I nor anyone else drive constantly at 120-130 Kph for all their driving.

iseedeadpeople · 25-05-2016 10:22PM

Well ive bitten the bullet and collecting my new 30kwh next week. Should do fine I mean I do about 20 to 30km a day. 3pin coming with it too for work charges and I live 2 mins away from a CHAdeMO point. will be interesting what kinda of stop off I need if going to limerick or cork from near bray.

but hey its gonna save me on fuel anyway and ive gotten what I think is a great deal on a 30kw demo.

wish me luck

One wonders if I will in time ever go back to ICE cars again. impress me Nissan

pwurple · 25-05-2016 10:34PM

Congratulations and well wear.

We're over a year driving electric now and it's like the difference between an ould manky phone box and a shiny new smart phone. I'd be gutted if we ever had to go back to a fossil fuel car.

Warning: if you have a spouse, prepare to argue over who gets to drive it.

25-05-2016 10:52PM

Congrats, no you won't want to go back to ICE again !

unkel · 25-05-2016 11:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Also worth considering is the 6.6 Kw 900 Euro's extra AC cahrger, it's very useful to top up when out and about at the standard street chargers

You can't order one without the 6.6kW charger any more. That said, the current offers on the Leaf are pretty spectacular:

Base model list price: 21.5
6.6kW: 0.9
Metallic: 0.6
Delivery:1.0

Total €24k, but Nissan will do it for €21k on the road, all in, cash. That's all you pay. About the same as the cheapest petrol Toyota Auris

And if you want to finance it, it will only cost you €21k too, no hidden extras, no admin charges, nothing. The APR on the website is still 7.9% but a new offer at just 4% is coming in this week

And once you disregard purchase price and opportunity costs / interest, a Leaf will cost you less to own than a moped...

25-05-2016 11:12PM

unkel wrote: »

You can't order one without the 6.6kW charger any more. That said, the current offers on the Leaf are pretty spectacular:

Base model list price: 21.5
6.6kW: 0.9
Metallic: 0.6
Delivery:1.0

Total €24k, but Nissan will do it for €21k on the road, all in, cash. That's all you pay. About the same as the cheapest petrol Toyota Auris

And if you want to finance it, it will only cost you €21k too, no hidden extras, no admin charges, nothing. The APR on the website is still 7.9% but a new offer at just 4% is coming in this week

And once you disregard purchase price and opportunity costs / interest, a Leaf will cost you less to own than a moped...

I see Nissan have changed their site and have the 4% interest mentioned, and about time too.

I still see the 6.6 Kw charger as an option ?

kala85 · 25-05-2016 11:17PM

unkel wrote: »

You can't order one without the 6.6kW charger any more. That said, the current offers on the Leaf are pretty spectacular:

Base model list price: 21.5
6.6kW: 0.9
Metallic: 0.6
Delivery:1.0

Total €24k, but Nissan will do it for €21k on the road, all in, cash. That's all you pay. About the same as the cheapest petrol Toyota Auris

And if you want to finance it, it will only cost you €21k too, no hidden extras, no admin charges, nothing. The APR on the website is still 7.9% but a new offer at just 4% is coming in this week

And once you disregard purchase price and opportunity costs / interest, a Leaf will cost you less to own than a moped...

Is that the 30kw or 24 kwh battery

stesaurus · 25-05-2016 11:19PM

iseedeadpeople wrote: »

One wonders if I will in time ever go back to ICE cars again. impress me Nissan

You won't!!!

stesaurus · 25-05-2016 11:21PM

unkel wrote: »

You can't order one without the 6.6kW charger any more. That said, the current offers on the Leaf are pretty spectacular:

Base model list price: 21.5
6.6kW: 0.9
Metallic: 0.6
Delivery:1.0

Total €24k, but Nissan will do it for €21k on the road, all in, cash. That's all you pay. About the same as the cheapest petrol Toyota Auris

And if you want to finance it, it will only cost you €21k too, no hidden extras, no admin charges, nothing. The APR on the website is still 7.9% but a new offer at just 4% is coming in this week

And once you disregard purchase price and opportunity costs / interest, a Leaf will cost you less to own than a moped...

Go for it, now is the time to really make savings with no public charging costs, night rate and current incentives. It will pay for itself compared to a 2nd hand ice.

unkel · 25-05-2016 11:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Nissan have changed their site and have the 4% interest mentioned, and about time too.

They must have changed the website today. Yesterday it still said 7.9%. Afaik the 4% came in yesterday (I got a quote yesterday with it)

Deleted User wrote: »

I still see the 6.6 Kw charger as an option ?

Not in the (presumably more up to date) printed sheets they had in Nissan Liffey Valley yesterday

kala85 wrote: »

Is that the 30kw or 24 kwh battery

Now what do you think?

If I offered you a beer for €0.50, would you ask me was it a glass or a pint?

unkel · 25-05-2016 11:37PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Go for it, now is the time to really make savings with no public charging costs, night rate and current incentives. It will pay for itself compared to a 2nd hand ice.

Some people here might be interested in the summary of some sums I did a couple of days ago: it costs roughly the same in total cost of ownership to buy a brand new base Leaf and keep it for 6 years as it does to keep driving my 12 year old 6 cylinder petrol auto BMW 5-series (12k km per year)

iseedeadpeople · 25-05-2016 11:40PM

s.welstead wrote: »

Go for it, now is the time to really make savings with no public charging costs, night rate and current incentives. It will pay for itself compared to a 2nd hand ice.

well yes my work will gladly let me charge during day so my home charges even with fitted point should be low just fast charges on long travel.

Plus 120 a year to tax.

I did drive a JCW works MINI up until this week i'm sure i'll miss the power of it but not the expense. Truth be told I had been looking at a 350 HP audi but no screw that id rather have spare cash. I'm getting the 30kw leaf with big discount because its a demo and hey money talks when its cash.

26-05-2016 12:18AM

unkel wrote: »

Some people here might be interested in the summary of some sums I did a couple of days ago: it costs roughly the same in total cost of ownership to buy a brand new base Leaf and keep it for 6 years as it does to keep driving my 12 year old 6 cylinder petrol auto BMW 5-series (12k km per year)

Grand if you want to drive an old car.

Imagine the amount of years you could drive based on a new ICE car ?

If buying new most people wouldn't pay the extra massive tax and VRT and petrol in a 6 cylinder 5 series.

pwurple · 26-05-2016 01:58PM

unkel wrote: »

s.welstead wrote: »

Go for it, now is the time to really make savings with no public charging costs, night rate and current incentives. It will pay for itself compared to a 2nd hand ice.

Some people here might be interested in the summary of some sums I did a couple of days ago: it costs roughly the same in total cost of ownership to buy a brand new base Leaf and keep it for 6 years as it does to keep driving my 12 year old 6 cylinder petrol auto BMW 5-series (12k km per year)

Are you saying that the cost of running, maintaining and taxing your existing car for 6 years will be as expensive as buying a brand new car with feck all bills?

Jeez, I'd be chucking that 12 year old banger in the scrappage bin today. Those are the sums I did on my old car. Except we do 18k, so it was less than 5 years.

Sabre Man · 26-05-2016 04:12PM

pwurple wrote: »

Are you saying that the cost of running, maintaining and taxing your existing car for 6 years will be as expensive as buying a brand new car with feck all bills?

There will presumably be more depreciation on a new car than a car that's 12 years old. How much you lose depends on how long you keep it before buying another car.

Brand new cars don't make financial sense.

26-05-2016 04:36PM

Who cares ? not everyone wants to drive an older car that had God knows what done to it before they bought it.

And some people just like new cars.

I bought the new Leaf because half the monthly payments are paid back by not paying for petrol in the Prius and with the work charge point it costs me a lot less to drive now about 4 and 8 euro's Euro's a week to drive about 550 Kms.

I'd rather pay for the car than the fuel which is pure tax, then the Motor Tax.

Not only the cost of motoring but I do enjoy driving the Leaf and having pre heating in Winter would be very hard to give up. Also I like there is 0 emissions and the fact that a good portion of the time 50% of the energy going to the battery comes from wind but sadly not all the time but the emissions is vastly lower from an EV.

There are many applications for major Solar PV farms to be set up in Ireland but our bright Government will only give our tax money to wind energy investors instead. I read in the Independent or Times, can't remember where there is as much Solar PV applications as there is currently installed wind generation waiting to be installed but they won't receive funding, but the tax payer should not have to fund private investors in the first place anyway OT.

unkel · 26-05-2016 06:26PM

pwurple wrote: »

Are you saying that the cost of running, maintaining and taxing your existing car for 6 years will be as expensive as buying a brand new car with feck all bills?

Yes. Depreciation and opportunity costs are very high on the Leaf, but the rest is peanuts. On the BMW, depreciation and opportunity costs are almost zero and there isn't much to spend on maintenance either, but petrol and motor tax make up the bulk of the cost

26-05-2016 07:45PM

Where is the depreciation high on a leaf ? depreciation is not worse than any other non premium brand car , don't be looking at U.K figures they don't in any way reflect the Irish market or Donedeal U.K cars. Last time I checked the Leaf is doing quiet well.

Interest on a new leaf now is 4%.

unkel · 26-05-2016 09:11PM

Clearly I was comparing a 12 year old BMW (a few hundred depreciation per year at this stage) with a brand new Leaf (several thousand depreciation per year, particularly the first few years)

kala85 · 26-05-2016 09:43PM

unkel wrote: »

They must have changed the website today. Yesterday it still said 7.9%. Afaik the 4% came in yesterday (I got a quote yesterday with it)

Not in the (presumably more up to date) printed sheets they had in Nissan Liffey Valley yesterday

Now what do you think?

If I offered you a beer for €0.50, would you ask me was it a glass or a pint?

I dont know - thats why I am asking!!

There is a big difference in the quote I got fro the 30 kw battery and 24 kw battery

unkel · 26-05-2016 10:37PM

Yeah €3k more. That's taking the mick imho. But I guess Nissan needs to make the profits somewhere. There's very little profit in a Leaf with high capacity charger and metallic paint for €21k on the road...

kala85 · 26-05-2016 10:46PM

The price I got on sv 30kwh was 24k euro with the cold pack. And then another 6.6 kW charger was 900e and 24kwh xe was 18800e.

Both on scrappage deal

kala85 · 26-05-2016 10:47PM

The value of the leaf will definitely change if the esb decide to introduce costs for public charging

unkel · 26-05-2016 11:04PM

kala85 wrote: »

The price I got on sv 30kwh was 24k euro with the cold pack. And then another 6.6 kW charger was 900e and 24kwh xe was 18800e.

Both on scrappage deal

You need to add what your car would have fetched in a private sale to what you paid for the Leaf to get the real price you paid.

unkel · 26-05-2016 11:05PM

kala85 wrote: »

The value of the leaf will definitely change if the esb decide to introduce costs for public charging

I don't believe the value of the Leaf will change much at all when that happens. Should the €5k subsidy disappear, second hand prices will go up noticeably though.

iseedeadpeople · 26-05-2016 11:27PM

kala85 wrote: »

The price I got on sv 30kwh was 24k euro with the cold pack. And then another 6.6 kW charger was 900e and 24kwh xe was 18800e.

Both on scrappage deal

i have mine for 23k but its the demo not that i mind its still 161 with feck all really n it when you consider they retail for like 28.

I figure from looking at 151 models that are 24k the resale will be good and i wont lose much should i want to sell it next year so i think its worth it to see what i think of it. Add in fuel saving i dont think i willl lose anything on it really if i sold it next year ( thats if i dont like it)

n97 mini · 27-05-2016 09:36AM

unkel wrote: »

I don't believe the value of the Leaf will change much at all when that happens. Should the €5k subsidy disappear, second hand prices will go up noticeably though.

I'd say if the charges were introduced as proposed that the already tiny market for a Leaf would be cut in half. I know for me they would be the difference between a yay or nay.

If the subsidy is cut then they'll become harder to shift, especially if a large gap opens between here and the UK.

I would agree that depreciation seems to be greater than on a regular car, presumably people are reluctant to buy 2nd hand for reasons that don't exist with an ICE, namely fear (however unfounded) of getting a duff battery.

Pro's and con's of Leaf

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