Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Non book readers"

Canadel · 25-05-2016 12:48AM

leggo wrote: »

I don't know what people want from Game of Thrones. Since day one, it's been a slow-burner with tons of storylines building along at different paces up to about one climax per show.

The stuff before the climax is too often of piss poor quality, which makes it a task to get through, and also makes the climax less climatic and far less enjoyable. In a nutshell.

intheclouds wrote: »

LOL.

If you dont understand the significance of the final 10 minutes of that episode then I doubt you will enjoy the rest of the series.

Nah. I find most of the whitewalkers stuff and even the dragons total nonsense. Not really a huge fan of fantasy admittedly. Made it all the more disappointing when Jon Snow was ressurected.

Ned Stark's death made and defined Game of Thrones. It has been a show in decline ever since, albeit with one or two very good seasons after the event.

nicki11 · 25-05-2016 12:54AM

Canadel wrote: »

The stuff before the climax is too often of piss poor quality, which makes it a task to get through, and also makes the climax less climatic and far less enjoyable. In a nutshell.

Nah. I find most of the whitewalkers stuff and even the dragons total nonsense. Not really a huge fan of fantasy admittedly. Made it all the more disappointing when Jon Snow was ressurected.

Ned Stark's death made and defined Game of Thrones. It has been a show in decline ever since, albeit with one or two very good seasons after the event.

You do realise its a fantasy show don't you

Canadel · 25-05-2016 01:03AM

nicki11 wrote: »

You do realise its a fantasy show don't you

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Game of Thrones' strength was always its realism. And it is what made it the biggest show in the world.

Jayop · 25-05-2016 01:11AM

Canadel wrote: »

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Game of Thrones' strength was always its realism. And it is what made it the biggest show in the world.

Ehhhh no.

Canadel · 25-05-2016 01:33AM

Jayop wrote: »

Ehhhh no.

Yep. I, and I imagine plenty of others too, could not care less whether the dragons reappear again in the entire series. Same goes for the whitewalkers.

Game of Thrones at its best is the political scheming of Littlefinger and Varys, the power plays of the Lannisters, and the battle for survival of the honourable Starks in a dishonourable world. That is what hooked us on Game of Thrones and the characters it portrayed. And made it unmissable television.

And the quality of all of the above has declined significantly since around season 3 or 4. Desperately disappointing.

jebidiah · 25-05-2016 01:40AM

Canadel wrote: »

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Game of Thrones' strength was always its realism. And it is what made it the biggest show in the world.

+ Dragons.

Jayop · 25-05-2016 01:49AM

Canadel wrote: »

Yep. I, and I imagine plenty of others too, could not care less whether the dragons reappear again in the entire series. Same goes for the whitewalkers.

Game of Thrones at its best is the political scheming of Littlefinger and Varys, the power plays of the Lannisters, and the battle for survival of the honourable Starks in a dishonourable world. That is what hooked us on Game of Thrones and the characters it portrayed. And made it unmissable television.

And the quality of all of the above has declined significantly since around season 3 or 4. Desperately disappointing.

Maybe you and a few others do think like that. But most people love both the fantasy and the political side. That's what makes it great.

If you don't like the fantasy side then you should probably turn off now because it's clearly going more down that rod from here on in.

nicki11 · 25-05-2016 02:01AM

Canadel wrote: »

Yep. I, and I imagine plenty of others too, could not care less whether the dragons reappear again in the entire series. Same goes for the whitewalkers.

Game of Thrones at its best is the political scheming of Littlefinger and Varys, the power plays of the Lannisters, and the battle for survival of the honourable Starks in a dishonourable world. That is what hooked us on Game of Thrones and the characters it portrayed. And made it unmissable television.

And the quality of all of the above has declined significantly since around season 3 or 4. Desperately disappointing.

Jayop wrote: »

Maybe you and a few others do think like that. But most people love both the fantasy and the political side. That's what makes it great.

If you don't like the fantasy side then you should probably turn off now because it's clearly going more down that rod from here on in.

I agree with Jay, yes Varys and littlefinger are great characters but the world only exists as it does due to magic so if you can't accept that you aren't going to be happy. The seven kingdoms were united by three people on dragons, white-walkers threaten all living things; red priests, faceless men and wood witches are central to the story and thats what the shows been like since the pilot. Its never pretended to be anything else.

Billy86 · 25-05-2016 03:37AM

Just about the whole 'lack of realism lately' thing, let's not forget the very first scene in the first ever episode.

*NSFW

You knew what you were getting into from the first few minutes, to be honest.

leonil7 · 25-05-2016 07:31AM

lot of work for this episode
kudos to everyone involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfXP1RHLLx4

intheclouds · 25-05-2016 08:40AM

Canadel wrote: »

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Game of Thrones' strength was always its realism. And it is what made it the biggest show in the world.

No - the heart of it is that it is about magic and dragons!!

kunst nugget · 25-05-2016 08:50AM

Canadel wrote: »

Yep. I, and I imagine plenty of others too, could not care less whether the dragons reappear again in the entire series. Same goes for the whitewalkers.

Game of Thrones at its best is the political scheming of Littlefinger and Varys, the power plays of the Lannisters, and the battle for survival of the honourable Starks in a dishonourable world. That is what hooked us on Game of Thrones and the characters it portrayed. And made it unmissable television.

And the quality of all of the above has declined significantly since around season 3 or 4. Desperately disappointing.

You seem to be forgotten that it's based on a series of books called 'A Song of Fire and Ice' which would surely suggest that the Dragons and the Whitewalkers are a massive part of the journey that GRRM wants his characters to take. While he's drawn inspiration from the real word in terms of the political intrigue and shenanigans of medieval times, fantasy has always played a large part in the series.

If the Dragons and Whitewalkers didn't appear again in the series I'd be wondering what the point of the whole thing was to begin with.

nhur · 25-05-2016 08:57AM

LionelNashe wrote: »

+1
The meeting between Brienne and the Hound came out of the blue; the fight was brutal, the mountaintop setting was perfect, and him begging Arya not to leave him to a slow death was absolutely heart-braking and really well written and acted. The reason it was so powerful was all the time spent developing the relationship between Arya and the Hound. For me, it was the most powerful death scene, along with Shireen's, followed in order by Ned Stark, the Red Wedding, Jon's death, the Purple Wedding, and Hodor's death pales in comparison to all of the above. Willis's struggling was a bit sad though.

i'm not saying the scene wasn't great and all... just that it served no purpose in the larger picture... just like so many of the stories. And don't gimme that 'well maybe it's supposed to mean nothing .. like real life' cos this is supposedly a series with a beginning and an end... and the series has continually diverged ... endings require convergence. somewhere... some kind of catharsis at some level

25-05-2016 08:58AM

Huh.

Interesting idea with Hodor coming back as a zombie. If I remember right, anything that is killed by them can be returned. So it's a very likely outcome?

nhur wrote: »

i'm not saying the scene wasn't great and all... just that it served no purpose in the larger picture... just like so many of the stories. And don't gimme that 'well maybe it's supposed to mean nothing .. like real life' cos this is supposedly a series with a beginning and an end... and the series has continually diverged ... endings require convergence. somewhere... some kind of catharsis at some level

People I know hold strong to the belief that the only way we know for certain whether something is actually dead is if we see it happen on screen. We didn't see the Hound die. Arya left him. It could be very possible that he comes back?

nhur · 25-05-2016 09:03AM

nicki11 wrote: »

I agree with Jay, yes Varys and littlefinger are great characters but the world only exists as it does due to magic so if you can't accept that you aren't going to be happy. The seven kingdoms were united by three people on dragons, white-walkers threaten all living things; red priests, faceless men and wood witches are central to the story and thats what the shows been like since the pilot. Its never pretended to be anything else.

I think the main attraction of the show is the complexity of the working parts and the possibilities that this complexity could lead to... we have seen some great scheming on a political and military level, we've seen the horrors of war and the glory of heroes, we've seen the victory of cruelty and the naivety of good... and all that with a light dusting of magic and dragons...
but...
the series started with great promise and possibility and as the end approaches it seems like it's not going to deliver on any of the amazing possibilities as it continues to deliver more of the same

I'm still hopeful that it can all still happen though!

nhur · 25-05-2016 09:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Huh.

Interesting idea with Hodor coming back as a zombie. If I remember right, anything that is killed by them can be returned. So it's a very likely outcome?

People I know hold strong to the belief that the only way we know for certain whether something is actually dead is if we see it happen on screen. We didn't see the Hound die. Arya left him. It could be very possible that he comes back?

well... we saw Jon Snow die... and be dead...
hate when a show does that... gets us used to a certain set of 'rules' and then chucks them... I know that there was some precedent in that nothign encounter with yer man in the woods and the lord of light and alll... but GRRM's basically kept all avenues open... if Snow can come back then why not bring loads of others back too?!

intheclouds · 25-05-2016 09:07AM

nhur wrote: »

well... we saw Jon Snow die... and be dead...
hate when a show does that... gets us used to a certain set of 'rules' and then chucks them... I know that there was some precedent in that nothign encounter with yer man in the woods and the lord of light and alll... but GRRM's basically kept all avenues open... if Snow can come back then why not bring loads of others back too?!

Well this is an interesting question.

Is the ability to come back a feature of the person resurrected or a feature of the priest/priestess of the lord of light?

We just dont know. Yet.

25-05-2016 09:10AM

nhur wrote: »

well... we saw Jon Snow die... and be dead...
hate when a show does that... gets us used to a certain set of 'rules' and then chucks them... I know that there was some precedent in that nothign encounter with yer man in the woods and the lord of light and alll... but GRRM's basically kept all avenues open... if Snow can come back then why not bring loads of others back too?!

I agree.

In a show that was known for killing off so many characters without a second thought, it was annoying to me that they brought back Jon Snow.

But, in hindsight, it did lead to this very funny sketch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIRqNPUMB2g

Claire_72 · 25-05-2016 10:08AM

Another brilliant episode this week, things starting to build up nicely, bran story starting to get a bit more interesting especially now that he's been marked by the nights king

nhur · 25-05-2016 10:40AM

Claire_72 wrote: »

Another brilliant episode this week, things starting to build up nicely, bran story starting to get a bit more interesting especially now that he's been marked by the nights king

hilarious post given the sentiment in most of the last posts!! lol :pac:

kunst nugget · 25-05-2016 10:51AM

nhur wrote: »

hilarious post given the sentiment in most of the last posts!! lol :pac:

Not really. Most people seemed to have thoroughly enjoyed the episode. A minority seem to be giving out about a fantasy series having fantasy elements. And willies.

DeadHand · 25-05-2016 10:59AM

Canadel wrote: »

Nah. I find most of the whitewalkers stuff and even the dragons total nonsense. Not really a huge fan of fantasy admittedly. Made it all the more disappointing when Jon Snow was ressurected.

Yeah, I was much like this: the more the show veered into high fantasy and away from the realistic dynastic conflict and political intrigue the less I liked it. Indeed, I suspect the high fantasy elements were minimized deliberately in the opening seasons so as not to alienate the casual, non-fantasy fan audience. The real nonsense was only rolled out once an enormous, established audience had been hooked anyway.

But exhilarating episodes that would not be possible without the supernatural elements- such as Hardhome- helped bring me around.

It's a combination! There is room for both.

I like how the supernatural was kind of drip fed to us subtly over the series with the odd reference or odd happening- exploding every so often in massive wtf moments like the birth of the dragons, the white walker reveal or Hardhome.

We're closing in on the end, and probable Armageddon, so the high fantasy elements are coming to the fore- as we knew they would. But they still aren't dominating utterly, we do still have the tasty political and military maneuvering going on.

DeadHand · 25-05-2016 11:04AM

Canadel wrote: »

Not really a huge fan of fantasy admittedly

Here's the crux.

GOT never presented itself as anything but a fantasy series; War of the Roses it ain't.

Complaining of fantasy elements in a fantasy series is not a valid criticism.

Riskymove · 25-05-2016 11:12AM

DeadHand wrote: »

GOT never presented itself as anything but a fantasy series; War of the Roses it ain't.

Complaining of fantasy elements in a fantasy series is not a valid criticism.

I agree and am a fan of fantasy

But I think a part of the huge success of the TV show is that there wasn't a huge amount of it in the first few seasons (until the walkers and dragons really appeared)

It was really more about the politics and conspiracies and battles

Whispered · 25-05-2016 11:22AM

Yeah my husband is getting more and more lost as the series goes on. He's just not enjoying it anymore really and I'm getting fed up of the "who's that" and "how did that happen" questions. He's not a big fan of fantasy at all so I reckon that's why.

I'm still loving it but I love fantasy. I'd imagine many are finding the same now.

intheclouds · 25-05-2016 11:29AM

Whispered wrote: »

Yeah my husband is getting more and more lost as the series goes on. He's just not enjoying it anymore really and I'm getting fed up of the "who's that" and "how did that happen" questions. He's not a big fan of fantasy at all so I reckon that's why.

My husband likes fantasy but is asking the same types of questions. Its hard to follow for a non book reader I reckon.

Whispered · 25-05-2016 11:40AM

intheclouds wrote: »

My husband likes fantasy but is asking the same types of questions. Its hard to follow for a non book reader I reckon.

I never read the books and am still following, but I read the threads here so that definitely helps. Actually I enjoy these threads nearly as much as the series!

screamer · 25-05-2016 11:54AM

I don't think you need to read the books to follow the series on TV. I also don't think you need to be a fantasy fan just accept that it is there in small doses.

DeVore · 25-05-2016 11:55AM

It occurs to me that there is probably a timing issue with GRR Martin too... I mean, he writes glacially slowly so the series was always going to outstrip the books... then what? Either it diverges completely (and as I understand it, has diverged quite significantly in parts), and becomes someone elses Song of Ice and Fire... and I cant see GRR letting that happen or the fans being on side with him being sidelined. OR... they have to pad things out to wait for him to finish the next book (which by all accounts is due soon, I think?).

Remember when he delivers the book, there can be years worth of TV in it if they want to do it that way. A page description of a warzone can be spun to 2-3 episodes if they want.

But I think the opposite is kind of happening... they want to wait for the book to remain true to the story and they cant race ahead or GRR has to feed them more spoilers (like the Hodor reveal.. that's not in any book yet afaik and that's a pretty big spoiler). So they have paced these seasons to try to arrive at the point where the next book is released and they have a couple more years of story content.

That would explain some of the frankly bizarre pacing decisions. If you look at the over all arch of the season, they have an end point they CANT exceed, after that its an exercise in counting backwards and giving each episode its few bits of story-advance. But if that doesn't all "fit" well, we get a season which can feel "sluggish" or "rushed".

Sleepy · 25-05-2016 12:02PM

GRRM gave them the details they need to finish the story years ago. There's only going to be one more season (although reports have it that it'll be a 13 episode season), Game of Thrones will wrap up everything years ahead of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Non book readers"

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