Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Non book readers"

Nody

Pre empting the upcoming episode post by including some highlights from the charter. I'll try to set up each episode in advance each week; thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

This is ONLY about the specific episode shown on TV! No information from any other source, interviews etc. are allowed to be posted with the one exception that SPOILER tagged lore from the DVD releases and interviews will be allowed in the thread. Such information has to directly relate to the episode however and be clearly marked as for example "DVD lore from Season X relating to matter Y"

Lore and conclusions go here

This means book readers are allowed to post but they can not reference ANYTHING from the books.


In addition anyone picking up 3 yellow cards will be banned from the forum for the current season; in case of serious enough transgressions the ban may come earlier than 3 cards

Essien

He held the door!

karma_

So much to compute in this episode. Jesus.

Saganist

That was pretty Epic.

HODADOR !!

Lucas Hood

Hold the door.
Great episode.Saved me getting up early tomorrow morning to watch it.

ASOT

What an episode.

JaMarcusHustle

A really good episode. That Hodor scene was absolutely heartbreaking.

And I was shocked to see Summer killed off so swiftly too

Though I'm a little at odds with whats-her-face being able to easily carry Bran off into the night. She has, what, a 60 second head start at most? That better not be the getaway.

Edit: I'm also a little disappointed in the reveal of how the White Walkers first came to be. The weird forest children have had very little screen time, and are a bit Narnia-esque for me. But to find out they created the walkers? That's a bit underwhelming, as was the 60 seconds or so screentime the reveal got. "You made them?" "Oh yeah we made them, we needed an army". Hopefully it will be fleshed out a bit more, but with the main forest alien girl now dead, I'm not sure where a further revelation would come from. But the origin of the white walkers was something I was looking forward to a lot, and that was just a bit "Really? That's it?" for me. Ditto: re how the forest alien girl killed one of the main White Walker leaders so easily with a spear.

one man clappin

Dragonglass maybe?
Wow the ending of the episode was one of the best ever. So many emotions to endure.

dark crystal

Wow, this season just gets better and better.... Hold the door

Something I'm unsure about though - why are the whitewalkers so desperate to get into the cave and capture Bran?

FixitFelix

Maybe ive had one to many before watching this,but the hodor thing has me a bit confused lol
He's been called hodor for years but he gets the name while holding the door for bran in the present while having a seizure in the past??

Tickled me confused

ShaneU

dark crystal wrote: »

Wow, this season just gets better and better.... Hold the door

Something I'm unsure about though - why are the whitewalkers so desperate to get into the cave and capture Bran?

They want his power iirc

Best episode in a long time.

Didn't the man in the tree say the past can't be changed, was he straight up lying to Bran?

Falthyron

FixitFelix wrote: »

Maybe ive had one to many before watching this,but the hodor thing has me a bit confused lol
He's been called hodor for years but he gets the name while holding the door for bran in the present while having a seizure in the past??

Tickled me confused

Bran wargs into Hodor in both the present and the past. This creates a link between both Hodors with past-Hodor experiencing his own death through the connection with present-Hodor. In the present, he dies hearing the words 'Hold the Door' which becomes 'Hodor' and this transfers to past-Hodor where it becomes a permanent part of his make-up. Bran is a conduit between both Hodors and the experience of present-Hodor leaves an indellible mark on past-Hodor making him irreversibly changed for the rest of his life.

Falthyron

ShaneU wrote: »

They want his power iirc

Either that, or the King believes Bran could be a threat to his plans. Perhaps he knows Bran could possibly change the past and eliminate the Whitewalker threat before it came to be?

FixitFelix

Falthyron wrote: »

Bran wargs into Hodor in both the present and the past. This creates a link between both Hodors with past-Hodor experiencing his own death through the connection with present-Hodor. In the present, he dies hearing the words 'Hold the Door' which becomes 'Hodor' and this transfers to past-Hodor where it becomes a permanent part of his make-up. Bran is a conduit between both Hodors and the experience of present-Hodor leaves an indellible mark on past-Hodor making him irreversibly changed for the rest of his life.

Yeah coz thats not confusing haha i get it now thanks for clearing that up

tricky D

'Hold the door' is now the new 'Get to the chopper'.

Hodor

PetKing

ShaneU wrote:

Didn't the man in the tree say the past can't be changed, was he straight up lying to Bran?

I'd have to go back and check, but doesn't he say something like the past is already written, rather than changed? Brand interactions (which we know he can make) have probably already been made and are part of the history of the world they are in now. I doubt he could go back and whisper to Joffrey to not kill Ned.

Falthyron

#holdthedoor will be the number one trending hashtag by tomorrow morning.

ShaneU

FixitFelix wrote: »

Maybe ive had one to many before watching this,but the hodor thing has me a bit confused lol
He's been called hodor for years but he gets the name while holding the door for bran in the present while having a seizure in the past??

Tickled me confused

What I'm guessing happened is Brann tried to control Hodor using his warg powers but because Brann was stuck in the past, Past Hodor's brain got mixed up with Present Hodor (which is how he hears hold the door) and his brain can't handle it and he has a seizure.

dark crystal

FixitFelix wrote: »

Yeah coz thats not confusing haha i get it now thanks for clearing that up

I prefer to think of it in terms of Back to the Future (my brain can process it better that way lol).

Like when Marty McFly went back to 1955, he not only managed to bring his parents together again, but improved them in the future by influencing their story in the past...if you get me. Bran now seems able to influence the future by going back to the past. I think.

Shane St.

HOLY ****!

PetKing

There's no evidence so far that Bran can change the past. He's merely interacting with it on a small level, but the past is still the same. Would seem a cheat to do something dramatic and just restore the timeline and undo the events that have happened.

Sonics2k

****ing Bran. It's all his bloody fault.

I'm actually distraught about this.

Essien

If the Night King could grab Bran, then surely he could have killed him no?

I'm not sure it's as simple as them just wanting him dead. I agree with whoever said they want his power.

dark crystal

PetKing wrote: »

There's no evidence so far that Bran can change the past. He's merely interacting with it on a small level, but the past is still the same. Would seem a cheat to do something dramatic and just restore the timeline and undo the events that have happened.

I understand what you mean, but when he first started having visions in the cave, no one could see or interact with him. Gradually, we see signs that his presence in the past is being noticed.

Firstly, we see Ned seemingly able to hear an echo as Bran calls something out, then the Whitewalker sees and grabs him and finally we see young Hodor see him and begin to chant the only word he will be able to say for the rest of his life from that moment on.

There is some connection being made for sure, but it is confusing.

FixitFelix

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

A really good episode. That Hodor scene was absolutely heartbreaking.

And I was shocked to see Summer killed off so swiftly too

Though I'm a little at odds with whats-her-face being able to easily carry Bran off into the night. She has, what, a 60 second head start at most? That better not be the getaway.

Edit: I'm also a little disappointed in the reveal of how the White Walkers first came to be. The weird forest children have had very little screen time, and are a bit Narnia-esque for me. But to find out they created the walkers? That's a bit underwhelming, as was the 60 seconds or so screentime the reveal got. "You made them?" "Oh yeah we made them, we needed an army". Hopefully it will be fleshed out a bit more, but with the main forest alien girl now dead, I'm not sure where a further revelation would come from. But the origin of the white walkers was something I was looking forward to a lot, and that was just a bit "Really? That's it?" for me. Ditto: re how the forest alien girl killed one of the main White Walker leaders so easily with a spear.

Wasn't it the girl that carried bran off who killed the white walker after he gave the tree girl a right hook?

keavebm253

I have to say one of my top 3 best episodes.had a tear in my eye at the end.Brilliant writing.Has to go down as one of the best episodes.RIP Hodor

dark crystal

I also have to say, those Iron Islanders have no loyalty whatsoever. The guy who admits to murdering their king randomly turns up and they all just turn against Yara and Theon and swear loyalty to the guy.

They don't seem like the brightest bunch though, in fairness.

intheclouds

ShaneU wrote: »

What I'm guessing happened is Brann tried to control Hodor using his warg powers but because Brann was stuck in the past, Past Hodor's brain got mixed up with Present Hodor (which is how he hears hold the door) and his brain can't handle it and he has a seizure.

I thought that experiencing his own future death scrambled his brain and he was left only with the ability to say Hodor as a result.

Aw, hold the door

dark crystal

Seems George R. R. Martin almost let slip Hodor's name origin a few years back...

https://ventrellaquest.com/tag/what-hodor-really-means/

amos13

dark crystal wrote:

Seems George R. R. Martin almost let slip Hodor's name origin a few years back...

Brilliant!

thomond2006

That was an epic episode. The season has been on an upward curve, I really enjoyed episode 4 also.

Diabhal Beag

It wasn't actually "hold the door". It was hold the Dorne, as in, please don't ever resurrect that awful plot again.

pickarooney

Richard E Grant's cameo was very cute.

Kevin Eldon also, the episode was already great and then... that all kicked off.

I burst out laughing when the wolf died, pure trolling the animal loving viewers. It was a nervous laugh though. Those walkers give me the heebie-jeebies.

North of 32

I'm nit picking because it was a great episode, but if the guy in the tree knew the Night King was coming for Bran, why were the two of them just lazing around in Winterfell's courtyard doing literally nothing. It was a weak way to set up the Hodor thing - we already knew Ned was sent to the Vale so it's not like Bran was learning something critical.

Walter E GO

Hulk Hands

dark crystal wrote: »

Seems George R. R. Martin almost let slip Hodor's name origin a few years back...

https://ventrellaquest.com/tag/what-hodor-really-means/

That gives me faith at least that Martin has the whole complete story mapped out in his head, even small details, from an early stage, and this is not going to end up like "Lost" where the writers hadnt a breeze where they were going with it and it all turned to crap eventually.

wp_rathead

between Connacht winning at the weekend and "Hold the Door" I've my quota for tears firmly met..

polluxspiky

10/10 on that one.
So Bran messed up Hodor for his own ends. No good guys in this are there?
There was even something worth seeing in Meereen this week!

me_irl

Anyone else get Aliens vibes near the end?

The bit where Vasquez stays back with the grenade.

polluxspiky

pickarooney wrote: »

I burst out laughing when the wolf died, pure trolling the animal loving viewers. It was a nervous laugh though. Those walkers give me the heebie-jeebies.

Not even sure what the point was there. Didn't seem to even buy a second for Bran.
The Stark wolves have been overall a bit of a letdown IMO.

polluxspiky

Falthyron wrote: »

Either that, or the King believes Bran could be a threat to his plans. Perhaps he knows Bran could possibly change the past and eliminate the Whitewalker threat before it came to be?

Well he should have done that while he had access to the tree. He can still warg (and maybe has other powers) but interacting with the past was tree only surely?

polluxspiky

Essien wrote: »

If the Night King could grab Bran, then surely he could have killed him no?

I'm not sure it's as simple as them just wanting him dead. I agree with whoever said they want his power.

Yeah, well old tree guy might have explained to Bran about touching in the dream world at some stage mightn't he? They've been there for bloody years and he never thought to mention it?

Slydice

I don't usually check this board.

I came here to say Hodor.

Hodor!

Right, I'm off.

TooMuchWork

North of 32 wrote: »

I'm nit picking because it was a great episode, but if the guy in the tree knew the Night King was coming for Bran, why were the two of them just lazing around in Winterfell's courtyard doing literally nothing. It was a weak way to set up the Hodor thing - we already knew Ned was sent to the Vale so it's not like Bran was learning something critical.

The Game of Thrones universe is in a continuous loop. Wyllis became Hodor because Bran was in the Winterfell courtyard during the White Walker invasion. The Three-eyed-raven brought Bran to Winterfell in order to keep the loop going. If he didn't bring him there then Wyllis would never have become Hodor. The events that happen in Game of Thrones are already set in stone, there is no changing them.

TooMuchWork

Does this explain the Hodor/Wyllis thing and why Bran was in the Courtyard during the White Walker invasion for anyone?

leggo

Love when TV shows do time travel and it sparks conversations like this...

youreadthat

A moment of silence please. :eek::(

Jayop

Well that hour just shot by.

J. Marston

Ned, Robb, Cat, Grey Wind, Oberyn.

None of them hurt as much as that did. Poor Hodor.

PressRun

What's the story with the voice Varys heard in the fire? Something creepy going on there.

Also, if the Night King wanted to harness the kind of power that Bran has, couldn't they have just used the Three-Eyed Raven? I think they must see Bran and his ilk as a threat of some sort.