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Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Non book readers"

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    #272
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    seamus wrote: »
    It can be hard to tell distances when TV doesn't tend to show the passage of time.

    The last we knew of the White King he met Jon at Hardholme and was southbound for the Wall. Then he encounters Bran warging and the next day he brings an army down on top of Bran.
    So either Bran isn't nearly as far North as it appears, or several weeks passed between the encounter with the Whites and the seige.

    There's an interactive map here that's interesting:
    http://quartermaester.info/

    Lets you see the paths of individual characters and choose to see the paths according to the books or the TV show. No Spoilers.

    Shows Bran being way North

    Maybe Bran encountered the King in the past like when he was viewing Ned at the tower or Hodor at Winterfell so that the King was nearer at hand when Bran popped back into the present. Also, for all we know the King and his buddies can fly or teleport or somesuch and the wights they have with them at the cave are totally different wights than those at hardhome.


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    #273
    Butters1979
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    Conall Cernach wrote: »
    Maybe Bran encountered the King in the past like when he was viewing Ned at the tower or Hodor at Winterfell so that the King was nearer at hand when Bran popped back into the present. Also, for all we know the King and his buddies can fly or teleport or somesuch and the wights they have with them at the cave are totally different wights than those at hardhome.

    But if they can fly or teleport what's the point of the wall? They can't even swim.

    The whole thing seems strange. they have horses which would increase travel time but that undead army waddling along is slow as anything. It would take them months to get from Hardhome to where Bran is, yet they still managed to catch them before they got out of dodge. A bit of handwavium there i think.


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    #274
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    But if they can fly or teleport what's the point of the wall? They can't even swim.

    the wall is magical. They can't cross it


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    #275
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    The whole thing seems strange. they have horses which would increase travel time but that undead army waddling along is slow as anything. It would take them months to get from Hardhome to where Bran is, yet they still managed to catch them before they got out of dodge. A bit of handwavium there i think.

    Eh, did you see Hardhome?

    They can run like the bejapers. Faster than men I would think. They are fast moving zombies of the 28 Days Later type as opposed to the The Walking Dead type.

    Hardhome happened weeks ago, so why wouldnt they have been able to get there?


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    #276
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Plus being zombies, there is no need for sleep, rest or food/toilet breaks, etc. I googled and apparently 3.1mph is the average walking speed. That's 74.4 miles a day, 520.8 a week (nearly double the distance from Kerry to Ballymena), and 2,232 in a 30-day month.

    Is there anything about the white walkers and water by the way? At Hardhome the water is exactly where they stopped plus they never went after the remaining NW/Wildlings so likely could not cross. They have also never crossed the wall from the sides (I am assuming the magic starts and ends on the bookends of each wall) and if I recall they avoided water on another occasion that is escaping me. Being made out of ice (at least by the looks of them), water might mean death? E.g. melt them, or freeze them in the water around them?


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    #277
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RopeDrink wrote: »
    No idea, personally, but zombies (generic) never really had much success in water. They're dead, likely wounded or rotting, so trying to function in water when you your body can easily fill up with the stuff is not the best of options - even a pristine zombie (if there is such a thing). If these ones have some sort of ice effect on top of that, it wouldn't help. Only up-side is it can't kill them, obviously.

    Whether anything like that has anything to do with GoT is anyone's guess.

    Fire is, of course, a no brainer.
    Ah yeah the wights (zombies) would be no hopers on the water, but I was thinking more about the white walkers (zombie commander ice devil fellas) in terms of seeming to avoid the stuff.

    GOT had better not end like that Mel Gibson Signs movie! :p


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    #278
    polluxspiky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭polluxspiky


    RopeDrink wrote: »
    No idea, personally, but zombies (generic) never really had much success in water. They're dead, likely wounded or rotting, so trying to function in water when you your body can easily fill up with the stuff is not the best of options - even a pristine zombie (if there is such a thing). If these ones have some sort of ice effect on top of that, it wouldn't help. Only up-side is it can't kill them, obviously.
    Isn't there one of the "Of The Dead" movies (City I think) where the zombies just walk underwater for a few days until they get where they want to go? I mean, what's the rush when you're an immortal undead?


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    #279
    polluxspiky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭polluxspiky


    eeguy wrote: »
    the wall is magical. They can't cross it
    I don't get this. So if Bran had minded his own feckin' business and not let that walker touch him in his past dream (thanks for the warning there old tree dude) then the seven kingdoms could just sit behind The Wall and laugh at the zombie army? What's the point of the whole thing if they could get south anyway?


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    #280
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    polluxspiky wrote: »
    I don't get this. So if Bran had minded his own feckin' business and not let that walker touch him in his past dream (thanks for the warning there old tree dude) then the seven kingdoms could just sit behind The Wall and laugh at the zombie army? What's the point of the whole thing if they could get south anyway?

    I'm guessing if they broke the wall they could pass through it, but could not pass underneath it while it still stands. A bit silly, but standard suspension of disbelief fantasy stuff.


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    #281
    polluxspiky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭polluxspiky


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I'm guessing if they broke the wall they could pass through it, but could not pass underneath it while it still stands. A bit silly, but standard suspension of disbelief fantasy stuff.
    Nah, I get the fantasy "rules" but the entire story gets a bit pointless if Bran didn't need to do anything and ended up dooming them all. Unless the raven/tree/etc. secretly want the walkers to win and every last bit of it is a plan... which is why old guy didn't warn Bran about getting touched... you read it here first!


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    #282
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    polluxspiky wrote: »
    Nah, I get the fantasy "rules" but the entire story gets a bit pointless if Bran didn't need to do anything and ended up dooming them all. Unless the raven/tree/etc. secretly want the walkers to win and every last bit of it is a plan... which is why old guy didn't warn Bran about getting touched... you read it here first!
    Should have mentioned, I think we might see Bran's arm get 'Theoned' soon. Probably going to see his powers grow as his physical condition deteriorates further, it's a common enough trope.

    The old guy probably didn't mention it to Bran because of how it works out in the long run. Plus, he's very principled about not messing about with the process of things, wouldn't have wanted Bran going all Hodor if he messed it up. :p


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    #283
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    eeguy wrote: »
    the wall is magical. They can't cross it

    I'm not getting this,is it not possible for the whitewalkers to breach the wall and go south?Could somebody explain this?Seems pretty pointless if the much feared whitewalkers and army of the wights can't go south.


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    #284
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    seligehgit wrote: »
    I'm not getting this,is it not possible for the whitewalkers to breach the wall and go south?Could somebody explain this?Seems pretty pointless if the much feared whitewalkers and army of the wights can't go south.

    they can either go through the gates/tunnels underneath.
    or they can scale it.
    or, if there is some 'children of the forest' magic wove into its ancient construction, Bran being touched & subsequently heading south himself may allow the Nights King to pass or maybe even bring down the wall.


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    #285
    polluxspiky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭polluxspiky


    In that case, like I said, Bran would have done more for Westeros if he had been killed by Theon back at Winterfell.


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    #286
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Or by Jamie Lannister tossing him out that window....


    See, the Lannisters are the REAL heroes, GRR is such an awesome writer omgs!!! :)


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    #287
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    DeVore wrote: »
    Or by Jamie Lannister tossing him out that window....


    See, the Lannisters are the REAL heroes, GRR is such an awesome writer omgs!!! :)

    Sure we all know what the last line of the last book will be.

    "And it was all a dream..."


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    #288
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    nearly double the distance from Kerry to Ballymena)

    That makes everything so much clearer. ðŸ˜


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    #289
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    pickarooney wrote: »
    That makes everything so much clearer. ðŸ˜

    It was a slow day in work and with all the talk off how far off Bran was from the Wall etc, I got bored. :p

    But all the same, covering the length (SW->NE) of Ireland in just over a fortnight is pretty impressive :p . I've always figured Westeros to be about the size of the UK (never officially read it, but surely it's got to be? Esp. with Essos acting as France/Europe) then going by the looks of it, north of The Wall might be about the size of Ulster. So the white walkers can probably move their army from one end to the other in 3-5 days.

    http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/efb7_got_full_world_map_poster.jpg


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    #290
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Ned Stark will walk out of a shower...


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    #291
    zzfh
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭zzfh


    DeVore wrote: »
    Ned Stark will walk out of a shower...

    A 2016 Ned Stark?


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    #292
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    Billy86 wrote: »
    It was a slow day in work and with all the talk off how far off Bran was from the Wall etc, I got bored. :p

    But all the same, covering the length (SW->NE) of Ireland in just over a fortnight is pretty impressive :p . I've always figured Westeros to be about the size of the UK (never officially read it, but surely it's got to be? Esp. with Essos acting as France/Europe) then going by the looks of it, north of The Wall might be about the size of Ulster. So the white walkers can probably move their army from one end to the other in 3-5 days.

    http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/efb7_got_full_world_map_poster.jpg
    Westeros is huge according to all the official stuff, much bigger than Britain. Wikipedia estimates Westeros as being around the same size as South America and Essos as Eurasia. It also states that GRR Martin claimed on HBO that North of The Wall was roughly the size of Canada.


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    #293
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Conall Cernach wrote: »
    Westeros is huge according to all the official stuff, much bigger than Britain. Wikipedia estimates Westeros as being around the same size as South America and Essos as Eurasia. It also states that GRR Martin claimed on HBO that North of The Wall was roughly the size of Canada.

    Aaaaaaaaand... there goes that theory. :(:p


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    #294
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Here is a pretty good map.

    The resolution is huge so has good detail.

    There is also a scale at the top but I'm not sure if it is canon.
    So, yes, the scale of the lands are massive.

    also.... I only copped this a few days ago...


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    #295
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Here is a pretty good map.

    The resolution is huge so has good detail.

    There is also a scale at the top but I'm not sure if it is canon.
    So, yes, the scale of the lands are massive.

    also.... I only copped this a few days ago...

    The bottom part does look very like Ireland but the top bit looks nothing like Britain.


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    #296
    Mike Litoris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭Mike Litoris


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    also.... I only copped this a few days ago...


    That's awesome!!


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    #297
    Riders Of Rohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Riders Of Rohan


    DeVore wrote: »
    Ned Stark will walk out of a shower...

    Stark Naked


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    #298
    leonil7
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭leonil7


    3oqsel4mrb8iiea6g.jpg


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    #299
    Butters1979
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Eh, did you see Hardhome?

    They can run like the bejapers. Faster than men I would think. They are fast moving zombies of the 28 Days Later type as opposed to the The Walking Dead type.

    Hardhome happened weeks ago, so why wouldnt they have been able to get there?

    Yes I did see Hardhome, thanks for the patronizing. They didn't immediately about turn and head for Bran as soon as Jon turned his back.
    They only went there after the whitewalker king had seen and touched Bran during the vision. And he still managed to get there before they could pack and leave. It just seems a bit quick for me but it's arguable how long it was as they don't show passage of time at all in this show.


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    #300
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    Yes I did see Hardhome, thanks for the patronizing. They didn't immediately about turn and head for Bran as soon as Jon turned his back.
    They only went there after the whitewalker king had seen and touched Bran during the vision. And he still managed to get there before they could pack and leave. It just seems a bit quick for me but it's arguable how long it was as they don't show passage of time at all in this show.

    Chill out, I wasnt being patronising, take it with a splash of humour?

    Anyway, the I dont think the Nights King was at Hardhome when he touched Bran - I actually rewatched the episode yesterday (yes I am pretty sad to be rewatching already).

    I think it was that place where the Children of the Forest made the Nights King (with the standing stones arranged in a spiral).


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    #301
    polluxspiky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭polluxspiky


    How does that work anyway. The night king was waiting for Bran to dream about him back in time so he could get into the tree in the present? Or was Bran dreaming of the present? If he was dreaming about the past them night king would've walked into the tree whenever he liked.
    Does he drive a DeLorean?


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