Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Book readers"

awec wrote: »

You would think that if you are teaching some young lad how to look into the past you'd mention that if he happens to come across a bloke who is white with blue eyes and carries a big fcuk off sword that he'll be able to see you and touch you and if that happens we're all screwed?

Surely this topic would be covered in lecture 1 of how to be a three eyed raven?

I think it's a paradox.

The three eyed Raven knows all this stuff will happen, because he has been in the trees for so long.

He needs to teach Bran, and Bran can't make it to the tree without Hodor.

If the Nights King never touches him, there is no reason to go back.

If he never takes him back to that moment in the past, Hodor never becomes simple, and his whole future could have been different.

He basically, like Jojen, knew when he was going to die, but that he needed to for Bran's sake.

jebidiah wrote: »

I think it's a paradox.

The three eyed Raven knows all this stuff will happen, because he has been in the trees for so long.

He needs to teach Bran, and Bran can't make it to the tree without Hodor.

If the Nights King never touches him, there is no reason to go back.

If he never takes him back to that moment in the past, Hodor never becomes simple, and his whole future could have been different.

He basically, like Jojen, knew when he was going to die, but that he needed to for Bran's sake.

Or perhaps the Nights King was always going to touch him, but Bran triggered that event much too early and this forced the Three Eye Raven to accelerate his plans. I think Bran and the Nights King were always going to meet at some point, but that would be when Bran was much further on in his training.

That episode was tough on the mind and the soul. Summer is gone and Winter is in pursuit. Although Bran gets away I felt deflated and with little hope. We felt the heaviness that is now on Bran to do whatever it is he suppose to do. Bloodraven told him to use Hordor and Bran sees the full consequences of his powers.

That moment had similarities to "The Constant" episode in Lost which was also directed by Jack Bender (which many consider to be the best episode in the series) where human consciousness travel between past and present with detrimental effects on the time traveler. Young Hordor for-see's his own death and from that moment on is destined to live up until he has to "Hold the Door". It's so poetically cruel, tragic yet remarkably great writing, something that can only come from GRRM.

There we some other great moments throughout. Both Vary's and Littlefinger are uncharacteristically quietened by two red women in this episode. This is the only scene where LF wasn't able to manipulate or get his way. Sansa has such confidence and resolve. She makes tactical decisions throughout the episode and speaks will little doubt, she is becoming her mother.

Some well needed Humor comes from a very unlikely source, Brienne. Her non-verbal interactions with Tormund were comical. I'm hoping for some dialogue alone the Kingsroad next week, if she tells him she fought a bear in a pit with a wooden sword I think Tormund will fall off his horse.

Arya, interestingly is beginning to question her chosen profession as well as the Waif indicating she will never be accepted. Arya must become a servant and follow blindly but as the Waif points out she is a Stark. The faceless men originate from Valerian slaves. The actress Arya is set to kill looks to be a kind women too. I think they are staging the scene for Arya to revolt against the House of Black & White.

Some one pointed out online that Arya interestingly played herself in the play, watching from a height from the back of the crowd. That's pretty clever. Also noticed how much the story is manipulated. Cersei is fair and honest, Ned is an idiot, Joff was going to show Mercy and Tyrion is the scheming villain of the play. I guess this shows how history is written by the victors.

Alfie Allen's performance during the Kingsmoot was excellent. He speaks passionately about his sisters leadership yet is on the verge of a breakdown and unable to face Euron eye to eye.

Jack Bender directs the next episode also so I am delightfully expecting that to pack the same heart wrenching punch to the feels.

Great review

Loved loved loved this episode. I'm disappointed with show-Euron as i feel they could flesh him out a little more, no mention of Silence? Also Damphair supporting him which is the complete opposite from the books but it's of no consequence.

Where are Meera and Bran going? They won't get far with her dragging him, please please PLEASE let Coldhands come to their rescue!!!

The fight scene with Arya and the waif i thought was excellent, very well fought on both sides. I don't see Arya killing the woman though, it doesn't suit her character.

What's the deal with the red woman in Meerenn? Is she the shows replacement for the Green Grace?

intheclouds wrote: »

Where are you getting this idea of latent warging ability? There is literally nothing to suggest that?

There were 2 Brans - one was lying with his eyes closed in the tree roots, the other was simultaneously standing in the yard at Winterfell.

It was Bran that CREATED Hodor by linking Hodor in the pasts consciousness with Hodor in the presents consciousness and allowing him to experience his own death thus scrambling his mind.

There os really one Bran, lets call him All-Bran, his body was in the roots with Raven, but his conciousness was in a vision of the past. What I think is that because he warged inot Hodor will still in a vision he creates some kid of link between Hodor past and present who sees his own death and is irreparably damaged.

intheclouds wrote: »

There should only be All Bran - but the Nights King being able to touch his body in the past would suggest he has physicality as well as consciousness in the past.

I would counter that there is only one consciousness of All Bran, but maybe 2 physical Brans?

<<head explodes>>

Maybe the fact that the Nights King could physically touch Bran is because the 'magic' the white walkers use is the same that Bran and Bloodraven use, the magic of the Children of the Forest. I reckon the white walkers and Bran are just two sides of the same coin.

bnt wrote:

Well, they've basically been rejected by the rest of the Ironborn, or at least those who were at the Kingsmoot. Who do they know on the mainland? Yara doesn't know anyone; they can't go to Deepwood Motte, unless they want to retake it from the Glovers - and even if they did, what then? Euron would know about that, or soon find out. Theon knows the Boltons, but probably wants to avoid them. Who's left? Starks.

They sailed off with a sizable fleet/ army. My first thought was theon will head back to Sansa. She's on the lookout for an injection of warriors.

Oh no, you've been marked by the White Walkers and now they can breach our defenses!!! They will certainly be coming to kill us right now, you must flee! But first, lets go on some more visions quests and leave ourselves completely vulnerable and then act surprised when we're attacked?

My only problem with the episode.