1000's of kids making their communion today

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 1:59pm #1

Are people just not aware that the Catholic Church molested 10's of 1000's of kids around the world and covered it up, or do they just not care?

Why are people cool with kids being molested, especially being parents themselves? And I believe they must be "cool" with it, otherwise why would they voluntarily choose to associate with this very same organisation.

And not only that, a few weeks before their communion, they send their kid into a box with a dirty old man who asks them about all the naught things they've been getting up to lately!! aka 'first confession'. They're 8 - they have nothing to confess to you, ya big weirdo FFS!

Am I the one that's crazy here? Is it okay to molest thousands of kids? People seem cool with it.

14-05-2016 2:02pm

Unless you can prove that every member of the Roman Catholics clergy is a child molester, then you don't really have an argument here.

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 2:06pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Unless you can prove that every member of the Roman Catholics clergy is a child molester, then you don't really have an argument here.

The organisation itself has a rampant proven history of it, including covering it up. That's a fact - so why are people totally okay still being associated with this organisation?

I never said the actual priest giving them communion today did anything. I'm referring to the catholic church - the organisation.

Not sure how you missed that.

Saipanne · 14-05-2016 2:10pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Unless you can prove that every member of the Roman Catholics clergy is a child molester, then you don't really have an argument here.

Hope, all you have to demonstrate is that the institution facilitated it. And they did.

14-05-2016 2:10pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

The organisation itself has a rampant proven history of it, including covering it up. The organisation - so why are people totally okay being associated with this organisation?

I never said the actual priest giving them communion today did anything. I'm referring to the catholic church - the organisation.

Not sure how you missed that.

People believe in their religion, they want their children to grow up in that religion.
Yep there was a huge amount of abuse & cover ups, but that doesn't stop people believing in their religion.

They do not believe in an organisation, they believe in their religion.

Fwiw, I'm not religious, have no interest whatsoever in the catholic church, but I don't expect everyone to believe the same things I do.

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 2:29pm

bubblypop wrote: »

They do not believe in an organisation, they believe in their religion.

If they don't believe in the organisation - why are they attending that very organisation today and making their kid a full-fledged member? The same organisation that molested kids just like theirs.

stoplooklisten · 14-05-2016 2:32pm

Their religion is between themselves and god, whatever happened to free will?

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 2:39pm

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Their religion is between themselves and god, whatever happened to free will?

It's not between themselves and their fictional god. They're involving innocent kids - actually making them members of an organisation that molests & covers it up.
Correct me where I'm being factually inaccurate here.

Did the catholic church molest 1000's kids? Yes.
Did the catholic church actively cover it up? Yes.
Did they move priests around after they were accused? Yes.
Did they withhold information and hinder investigations. Yes.
The priests who didn't participate - did they know what was going on? Yes.

So why are people who have kids; the same age as many of the ones who were molested, happy to send their kids in there today to become full members of this very church, and act like nothing ever happened?

That's my only question here.

questionmark? · 14-05-2016 2:39pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

Are people just not aware that the Catholic Church molested 10's of 1000's of kids around the world and covered it up, or do they just not care?

Why are people cool with kids being molested, especially being parents themselves? And I believe they must be "cool" with it, otherwise why would they voluntarily choose to associate with this very same organisation.

And not only that, a few weeks before their communion, they send their kid into a box with a dirty old man who asks them about all the naught things they've been getting up to lately!! aka 'first confession'. They're 8 - they have nothing to confess to you, ya big weirdo FFS!

Am I the one that's crazy here? Is it okay to molest thousands of kids? People seem cool with it.

Wow bit of a bee in your bonnet there. Not all priests are child molesters it's like calling all Muslims terrorists.Some parents want their kids to be part of the same religion some parents are doing it for the day out. Whatever their reason to even suggest that if your child gets communion the parents are ok with people molesting children is ill informed rubbish.

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 2:42pm

questionmark? wrote: »

Wow bit of a bee in your bonnet there. Not all priests are child molesters it's like calling all Muslims terrorists.Some parents want their kids to be part of the same religion some parents are doing it for the day out. Whatever their reason to even suggest that if your child gets communion the parents are ok with people molesting children is ill informed rubbish.

How is it ill informed? It's facts. I stated them above. Correct me where my facts are incorrect. If parents are okay with their kids being associated with an organisation that committed these crimes, then there's something wrong with their heads. The catholic church is an organisation. We're talking about the organisation here.

Not all priests are child molesters

Why are you arguing against something I never even said?

stoplooklisten · 14-05-2016 2:43pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

It's not between themselves and their fictional god. They're involving innocent kids - actually making them members of an organisation that molests & covers it up.
Correct me where I'm being factually inaccurate here.

Did the catholic church molest 1000's kids? Yes.
Did the catholic church actively cover it up? Yes.
Did they move priests around after they were accused? Yes.
Did they withhold information and hinder investigations. Yes.
The priests who didn't participate - did they know what was going on? Yes.

So why are people who have kids; the same age as many of the ones who were molested, happy to send their kids in there today to become full members of this very church, and act like nothing ever happened?

That's my only question here.

Simply put, because they want to

They may have gained values from the church which they believe are worth instilling in their own children.

No everyone was abused, not every priest an abuser. Why blame future generations for past generations mistakes. Can we not learn from it? prevent it happening again? The church has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Blame your parents generation, not you peers.

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 2:46pm

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The church has changed a lot in the last 20 years.

Really?

Last time I checked they still condemn homosexuals. They still don't allow women to be priests. They deny contraceptives to HIV-ridden countries.

What's changed? The PR campaign behind a "hip" new pope?

stoplooklisten · 14-05-2016 2:48pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

Really?

Last time I checked they still condemn homosexuals. They still don't allow women to be priests. They deny contraceptives to HIV-ridden countries.

What's changed? The PR campaign behind a "hip" new pope?

The power by the church had within irish society
The unquestioning reverence and devotion by the people towards the priests
mother and baby homes
laundries

you mustn't have been alive in ireland if you can see any changes

questionmark? · 14-05-2016 2:51pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

How is it ill informed? It's facts. I stated them above. Correct me where my facts are incorrect. If parents are okay with their kids being associated with an organisation that committed these crimes, then there's something wrong with their heads. The catholic church is an organisation. We're talking about the organisation here.

Why are you arguing against something I never even said?

You said it in your first post. If you get rid of your rage and read what your typing and what way it reads to other people it might help.
You clearly imply that all priests are child molesters and that parents allowing children to take their first confession that the parents are ok with child molestation. That is where your facts are wrong because neither are true.

One eyed Jack · 14-05-2016 3:08pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

Are people just not aware that the Catholic Church molested 10's of 1000's of kids around the world and covered it up, or do they just not care?

Of course people are aware that members of the Catholic Church abused children in the past and covered it up.

Why are people cool with kids being molested, especially being parents themselves? And I believe they must be "cool" with it, otherwise why would they voluntarily choose to associate with this very same organisation.

Who has ever actually said to you that they were cool with kids being molested?

And not only that, a few weeks before their communion, they send their kid into a box with a dirty old man who asks them about all the naught things they've been getting up to lately!! aka 'first confession'. They're 8 - they have nothing to confess to you, ya big weirdo FFS!

Can you link to a specific case where this has actually happened?

Am I the one that's crazy here?

Possibly.

Is it okay to molest thousands of kids?

Not in my opinion, where do you stand on the issue yourself?

People seem cool with it.

Remember when you asked were you the only one that's crazy here? If you assume that people are cool with kids being molested, then that's a pretty strong indication that yes, you are the only one that's crazy here.

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 4:47pm

questionmark? wrote: »

You said it in your first post. If you get rid of your rage and read what your typing and what way it reads to other people it might help.
You clearly imply that all priests are child molesters and that parents allowing children to take their first confession that the parents are ok with child molestation. That is where your facts are wrong because neither are true.

By allowing their kids to participate in a catholic church ritual, they're showing allegiance to, & acceptance of, the very same church that molested kids. Not sure how much clearer that can be.

And no -I never said all priests were paedos - nowhere did I say that. Yet you keep saying I did. I used the word organisation throughout.

Can you link to a specific case where this has actually happened?

Eh, I described first confession. Never heard of it?

One eyed Jack · 14-05-2016 4:57pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

By allowing their kids to participate in a catholic church ritual, they're showing allegiance to, & acceptance of, the very same church that molested kids. Not sure how much clearer that can be.

And no -I never said all priests were paedos - nowhere did I say that. Yet you keep saying I did. I used the word organisation throughout.

It's not very clear at all though Kenny. Everyone who is a member of the RCC is the Church, so when you're saying the Church molested kids, you might as well be saying men molest kids. You're a man Kenny. Do you approve of men molesting kids then?

I wouldn't think you do, because that would be incredibly stupid on my part.

Eh, I described first confession. Never heard of it?

I've heard of it described in those sorts of terms of course, but nobody I've asked has ever been able to substantiate their claims.

eeguy · 14-05-2016 5:05pm

For many people it's a day out.

A reason to get dolled up and put the kids in dresses and suits.
The religious aspect is lost on most people as its easier to go along with it that explain to the child why they're not included in the proceedings.

Same with people who don't go to mass putting RC on the census. The confirmation could be the first time since the communion that they've been in a church.

rafatoni · 14-05-2016 5:09pm

Auld Kenny must be still gargled from last night

Too much sherbert on a saturday afternoon does that

Kenny Bania · 14-05-2016 6:16pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

so when you're saying the Church molested kids, you might as well be saying men molest kids.

Really? Is that your best argument? Best move along and leave this discussion to the adults.

One eyed Jack · 14-05-2016 8:27pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

Really? Is that your best argument? Best move along and leave this discussion to the adults.

Isn't that always the problem? That some adults never want to listen to what children are trying to tell them?

Clearly it's not confined to those within the Church then. Maybe you could ask the adults over in the Christianity forum?

Seems like the most obvious forum if you really wanted to know why do adult members of the Roman Catholic Church encourage their children to make their Communion. Seems more than a bit pointless in a forum where any parents or guardians, if they are parents or guardians, are likely to be atheist.

questionmark? · 15-05-2016 12:05am

Kenny Bania wrote: »

By allowing their kids to participate in a catholic church ritual, they're showing allegiance to, & acceptance of, the very same church that molested kids. Not sure how much clearer that can be.

And no -I never said all priests were paedos - nowhere did I say that. Yet you keep saying I did. I used the word organisation throughout.

Eh, I described first confession. Never heard of it?

Dirty old men in a confession box is what you said i.e as confessions are conducted by priests you implied all priests where peados.

You implied in your OP and the above quoted post that by allowing their kids to partake parents were ok with child molestation/abuse. Your view is clear from your rage filled posts and very misguided.

Yes I heard of confession. Maybe you should try it sounds like you have a lot to let off your chest.

So its not priests your saying and its the organisation rather than the implied priests? Ok so. The organisation is about 1 billion plus strong. Do you think they are all paedos so?

TL/DR More thinking less rage OP.

Kenny Bania · 15-05-2016 12:37am

questionmark? wrote: »

The organisation is about 1 billion plus strong. Do you think they are all paedos so?

No - the clergy & church hierarchy are all complicit. If they didn't partake, they knew about it going on at the time - and the higher-ups covered it up.

The congregation/followers of the RC church all seem to be perfectly accepting of said crimes, since they continue to be associated with the church as if nothing has happened. All totally cool with it - all out in suits/dresses with big smiles for communion day. Like it's a perfectly respectable organisation they're signing their kids up to.

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2016 12:46am

Kenny Bania wrote: »

No - the clergy & church hierarchy are all complicit. If they didn't partake, they knew about it going on at the time - and the higher-ups covered it up.

The congregation/followers of the RC church all seem to be perfectly accepting of said crimes, since they continue to be associated with the church as if nothing has happened. All totally cool with it - all out in suits/dresses with big smiles for communion day. Like it's a perfectly respectable organisation they're signing their kids up to.

Your concern for other people's children is touching.

Kenny Bania · 15-05-2016 12:55am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Your concern for other people's children is touching.

Maybe I'm just not okay with the worlds biggest ever paedophile ring - yeah, I'm such a weirdo.

https://youtu.be/PZJ5W4X_sR4

15-05-2016 12:58am

This doesn't seem to be much about first communion more about a fairly lazy repetitive attack along the same old lines.

Which I'm all for etc but isn't very interesting reading.

Attended a first communion last year and I'd be interested in discussing that. Few things struck me as p weird at the time, the girls being set up as mini brides of christ, the heavy leaning on Jesus now being yr new special friend, it's a very bizarre ceremony and not a mention anywhere as to the implications of transubstantiation, one of the core creeds of the church and the point of the whole ceremony.

I'm gonna postulate that catholic guilt is at least part brought on by the late realisation that you have been deeply involved in a Messiah consumption conspiracy since you were six years of age.

It's no wonder we're ****ed up.

strangel00p · 15-05-2016 1:10am

Kenny Bania wrote: »

And no -I never said all priests were paedos - nowhere did I say that. Yet you keep saying I did. I used the word organisation throughout.

Yeah you did.

questionmark? · 15-05-2016 1:26am

Kenny Bania wrote: »

No - the clergy & church hierarchy are all complicit. If they didn't partake, they knew about it going on at the time - and the higher-ups covered it up.

There are many issues with the Catholic Church and I myself are vocal about it but you are saying stuff that isn't true. Not everyone is guilty that is just a stupid to say. As I said more thinking less rage.

astonaidan · 15-05-2016 1:21pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Unless you can prove that every member of the Roman Catholics clergy is a child molester, then you don't really have an argument here.

Maybe he thought that episode of south park was a documentary

recedite · 15-05-2016 3:21pm

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The church has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Blame your parents generation, not you peers.

Actually, the main marketing angle used by the RCC is that it doesn't change. Other religions may come and go, like fads, but RCC claims to be the guardian of some universal and unchanging truth.

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The power by the church had within irish society
The unquestioning reverence and devotion by the people towards the priests
mother and baby homes
laundries

you mustn't have been alive in ireland if you can see any changes

These are changes alright, but not changes in the church.They are changes to many people's attitude to the church.

The RCC would still run the Magdalene laundries if they could. They fought tooth and nail to stop Noel Browne from bringing in some form of free healthcare and social welfare to single mothers. They destroyed his political career, but they could not hold back the tide of secular social progress forever.

The Randy Riverbeast · 15-05-2016 6:14pm

only skimmed through the thread but little mention of the most important part of communions. Do the kids buy an Xbox or ps4 afterwards?

100cent · 15-05-2016 6:32pm

Receiving the body of Christ was a momentus day for me at the time.

I was so humbled to have the opportunity.

Its so lovely to see the children of today continuing the woderful traditions, despite the constant attacks on Catholicism.

Pherekydes · 15-05-2016 6:36pm

100cent wrote: »

Receiving the body of Christ was a momentus day for me at the time.

But you didn't. No preservatives or refrigeration could keep that guy fresh for 2000 years. It's just a bit of bread.

eviltwin · 15-05-2016 6:37pm

100cent wrote: »

Receiving the body of Christ was a momentus day for me at the time.

I was so humbled to have the opportunity.

Its so lovely to see the children of today continuing the woderful traditions, despite the constant attacks on Catholicism.

The tradition of how much money you can make and wearing a princess dress. Most kids don't care about the religious aspect which is supposedly the entire point.

100cent · 15-05-2016 6:41pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

But you didn't. No preservatives or refrigeration could keep that guy fresh for 2000 years. It's just a bit of bread.

I believe in the miracle of Transubstantiation that occurs in every Mass.

I did receive Jesus that day and have done on countless occassions since.

Kiwi in IE · 15-05-2016 7:50pm

We have been invited to a communion next week. I don't know whether or not we are expected to go to the church, but we are going! Little Kiwi is in 2nd class next year and is sitting it out. There is not a hope that he is going only to the bouncy castle/present/party part without seeing the weird stuff that goes on as well.

There is also not a hope that he will be feeling at a disadvantage or left out during the communion year either. We are going to make sure everything that replaces it is better than in the eyes of a kid. We have a meeting with the school mid June and we are going to firstly request that religion be done at the beginning or end of the day, so he can start late or go home early. If this cannot be accommodated, he will do his homework while they do religion, so he has none when he gets home and concentrate on extra curricular activities after school or just have free time. All the boys in his class are football mad, and most would much prefer to go to a match than have a party and get money, so we will look at the fixtures when we get the communion date and arrange a trip to the UK to watch his favourite team that weekend.

Feck communion and "poor child is left out". We will beat it!

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2016 8:11pm

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Feck communion and "poor child is left out". We will beat it!

I understand where you're coming from Kiwi, but you're better off not even trying to 'compete' as such IMO. You shouldn't feel a need to 'replace' one occasion for some families with a 'competing' occasion. It should just be seen as something special that you're doing for your children's own sake rather than doing it because you need to compete with other families for who has the better day out, if that makes sense?

Bristolscale7 · 15-05-2016 8:13pm

I always get confirmation and communion mixed up. What's the teaching on little girls and confirmation? Do they get married to jesus? WTF.

Bristolscale7 · 15-05-2016 8:13pm

100cent wrote: »

I believe in the miracle of Transubstantiation that occurs in every Mass.

I did receive Jesus that day and have done on countless occassions since.

Received him where?

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2016 8:24pm

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

I always get confirmation and communion mixed up. What's the teaching on little girls and confirmation? Do they get married to jesus? WTF.

Nope, no young girls get married to Jesus

Here's the skinny on the Sacraments:

Sacraments of the Catholic Church

flutered · 15-05-2016 8:29pm

Kenny Bania wrote: »

If they don't believe in the organisation - why are they attending that very organisation today and making their kid a full-fledged member? The same organisation that molested kids just like theirs.

why are non catholics voting for partys which has destroyed this country, forcing their kids to emigrate, etc, etc, etc

luftmensch · 15-05-2016 8:38pm

100cent wrote: »

Receiving the body of Christ was a momentus day for me at the time.

I was so humbled to have the opportunity.

Its so lovely to see the children of today continuing the woderful traditions, despite the constant attacks on Catholicism.

I was around 7 when I received it for the first time, and all I recall is that it tasted like those wafer yokes that you eat with ice cream. Then I went home and had some ice cream, and was given a load of money off relatives.

The point is, due to my youth, I didn't understand the significance of the event, and I don't expect anyone of such a young age to understand either.

100cent · 15-05-2016 8:43pm

luftmensch wrote: »

I was around 7 when I received it for the first time, and all I recall is that it tasted like those wafer yokes that you eat with ice cream. Then I went home and had some ice cream, and was given a load of money off relatives.

The point is, due to my youth, I didn't understand the significance of the event, and I don't expect anyone of such a young age to understand either.

I understood quite a lot about the huge significance of the day for me.

luftmensch · 15-05-2016 8:51pm

100cent wrote: »

I understood quite a lot about the huge significance of the day for me.

If so, you must have been an exceptionally mature young person, as I am yet to meet a 7 y/o who either understands or isn't apathetic to the events religious significance, transubstantiation, consubstantiation etc.

100cent · 15-05-2016 9:08pm

luftmensch wrote: »

If so, you must have been an exceptionally mature young person, as I am yet to meet a 7 y/o who either understands or isn't apathetic to the events religious significance, transubstantiation, consubstantiation etc.

I took it very seriously.

eviltwin · 15-05-2016 9:46pm

100cent wrote: »

I took it very seriously.

As a Catholic, do you not think people doing it for the day out, kids only going to church when it's communion time and then never darkening the door again is kinda insulting and that it makes a mockery of your faith?

100cent · 15-05-2016 9:52pm

eviltwin wrote: »

As a Catholic, do you not think people doing it for the day out, kids only going to church when it's communion time and then never darkening the door again is kinda insulting and that it makes a mockery of your faith?

Mockery of Catholicism, I'm sadly used to.

My relationship with the Almighty God remains as strong as ever.

Kiwi in IE · 15-05-2016 11:50pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from Kiwi, but you're better off not even trying to 'compete' as such IMO. You shouldn't feel a need to 'replace' one occasion for some families with a 'competing' occasion. It should just be seen as something special that you're doing for your children's own sake rather than doing it because you need to compete with other families for who has the better day out, if that makes sense?

Why? Because it might make it look to other kids like communion isn't really all that much craic? Feck it! We will compete! I'm not sitting idly by while he is potentially made to feel like he's 'missing out'. When they are 7 and 8 they really don't give a rats backside about the religious stuff, they care about parties and money. I won't have religious allegiance equated with parties and money in the eyes of my 7 year old! Whatever he does in class and on that weekend will be better than, not less than. We can't have equality, I'm not having less than, so therefore the only option is better than!

stoplooklisten · 16-05-2016 12:05am

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why? Because it might make it look to other kids like communion isn't really all that much craic? Feck it! We will compete! I'm not sitting idly by while he is potentially made to feel like he's 'missing out'. When they are 7 and 8 they really don't give a rats backside about the religious stuff, they care about parties and money. I won't have religious allegiance equated with parties and money in the eyes of my 7 year old! Whatever he does in class and on that weekend will be better than, not less than. We can't have equality, I'm not having less than, so therefore the only option is better than!

That's gas, you're going to have a non-communion celebration to co-incidence with the communions. Do you have non-christmas and non-easter celebrations too? Is it only the catholic religion or do you celebrate non-ramadam and non-bar mitzvah aswell?

100cent · 16-05-2016 12:12am

stoplooklisten wrote: »

That's gas, you're going to have a non-communion celebration to co-incidence with the communions. Do you have non-christmas and non-easter celebrations too? Is it only the catholic religion or do you celebrate non-ramadam and non-bar mitzvah aswell?

It seems restricted to an anti-Catholic agenda.

One eyed Jack · 16-05-2016 12:12am

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why? Because it might make it look to other kids like communion isn't really all that much craic? Feck it! We will compete! I'm not sitting idly by while he is potentially made to feel like he's 'missing out'. When they are 7 and 8 they really don't give a rats backside about the religious stuff, they care about parties and money. I won't have religious allegiance equated with parties and money in the eyes of my 7 year old! Whatever he does in class and on that weekend will be better than, not less than. We can't have equality, I'm not having less than, so therefore the only option is better than!

No, not because it might look like anything to other kids, or to anyone else for that matter. That's why I said do it for your own kids sake rather than "competing" with, or even setting your kids up in competition with, kids who are making their Communion.

Other kids making their Communion should have no bearing whatsoever on your decision to give your kids a day they'll remember. Put it this way - would you be doing it if other kids weren't making their Communion? If you wouldn't, then you're not doing it now for your kids, you're just doing it to compete with other kids.

You absolutely can and do have equality, and you have an opportunity here, yet instead look what you're doing with it? Teaching your children that they're better than other children because they're doing something different.

I'm absolutely not trying to tell you how to be a parent to your own child here, and I was reluctant to say anything in case you'd think I was biased, but this is your child, not mine, so I'm not basing anything on forcing my own religious beliefs down your throat. I'm trying to have you see that you're setting seven year olds up in competition with each other, completely unnecessarily.

What will you be planning for your kids when the other kids are making their Confirmation? By then will the competition have escalated to funding the next moon landing?

Just to be "better", than a bunch of children.

1000's of kids making their communion today

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