Star Wars: The Force Awakens [ SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD ]

J Mysterio · 12-05-2016 1:36am

Tony EH wrote: »

Some moments and they actually do have a few ideas in there.

But they are terrible, terrible films. The first two are just unwatchable, they're so stupid and the third only finds it balls in the last reel.

That trilogy should have been a dark as fook and merely concentrated on Kenobi and Anakin. We didn't need Qui gon Jin, the kid, miracle births, midichlorians, Jar Jar, dying of a broken heart, boba fett or any other of the thousand miss steps that George took.

The prequels could have worked, all the ingrdients were there.

Whadya mean we didnt need Qui Gon?

The Golden Miller · 12-05-2016 1:39am

Tony EH wrote: »

Gas.

There's just so many things wrong with the timeline caused by those prequels. Serously, I just cannot include them in any Star Wars canon. For me Star Wars has to begin with Star Wars, or else it doesn't make any bloody sense.

I wouldn't say that poster is a hole in fairness. It's exactly what you would say under the circumstances if you were Obi Wan

Tony EH · 12-05-2016 11:25am

J Mysterio wrote: »

Whadya mean we didnt need Qui Gon?

Completely surplus to requirements. He's a decent character and Neeson is probably the best thing in the film. But, he's just not needed.

The trilogy should simply focus on Skywalker and Kenobi, ending with Anakin with fully comitted to the Sith by his late 30's and the beginning of the Empire.

Showing him as a boy, who is essentially Space Jesus was fukin stupid to say the least. Not to mention the sheer idiocy of what the boy actually did in 'The Phantom Menace'.

Mind numbing stuff.

Speaking of the boy, I heard the other day that the actor who played him is in jail?

Tony EH · 12-05-2016 11:27am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I wouldn't say that poster is a hole in fairness. It's exactly what you would say under the circumstances if you were Obi Wan

No really. He could simply have said that it was his fathers lightsaber and that Luke might as well own it now. No need to mention anything about him wanting his son, who he didn't even know existed, to have it.

It's just exemplary of the problems with retconning a series that's already established itself.

Falthyron · 12-05-2016 11:34am

Tony EH wrote: »

Speaking of the boy, I heard the other day that the actor who played him is in jail?

An institution for people with mental health problems, actually. He suffered some sort of a mental break down recently.

Baggy Trousers · 12-05-2016 2:37pm

My kids have seen Star Wars IV to VII but I will not let them watch the 3 prequels because they are utter rubbish and will ruin their Star Wars buzz

Tony EH · 12-05-2016 2:47pm

This years 'Father of the Year' award goes to...

david75 · 12-05-2016 2:48pm

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

My kids have seen Star Wars IV to VII but I will not let them watch the 3 prequels because they are utter rubbish and will ruin their Star Wars buzz

If they love start wars, both animated series the clone wars and star wars rebels are both excellent.

homerun_homer · 12-05-2016 3:20pm

david75 wrote: »

Lucasfilm just launched the star wars show channel on youtube..first episode has that deleted scene of Mazs place...its gonna be a weekly thing.
http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/the-star-wars-show-1-debuts-deleted-the-force-awakens-footage-and-more/

That's not a deleted scene, that's just footage from in her boozer. When I read this I thought I missed something from watching it. When I hear of deleted scene from Maz's place I think of the Stormtroopers breaking in and her using force powers to lift debris and take them on.

cowboyBuilder · 13-05-2016 10:07am

Falthyron wrote: »

An institution for people with mental health problems, actually. He suffered some sort of a mental break down recently.

That's really sad, this industry can really **** up child actors

Theboinkmaster · 13-05-2016 2:05pm

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

That's really sad, this industry can really **** up child actors

George Lucas should give the family some cash to get him treated right.

david75 · 13-05-2016 4:29pm

It wasn't the industry screwed him up. It was years of abuse from Star Wars fans, both on the street and online and just in his everyday life..

david75 · 15-05-2016 3:07pm

Just thinking about what someone said earlier about Finn and buffoonery. If you think about it, he's lived in a military situation his whole life and isn't a clone. So he finally gets to relax and be unregimented and be himself for the first time.

Just a thought.

Tony EH · 15-05-2016 3:38pm

That was me and it still isn't convincing I'm afraid.

His whole character is silly though. He's supposed to be kidnapped by the First Order as a child, which means that the First Order has been around over 20 years?

He then spends his entire life serving as a Stormtrooper in a highly regimented and extremely rigid military system, knowing nothing else but that system.

But, his "first" mission was on Jakku? A mission where he sees civvies getting killed by his mates and it makes him chuck a wobbler and freak out?

What the hell did he think the First Order was about for the previous 20 years? What was HE doing for the last 20 years. He can't have been on toilet detail for 2 decades.

The whole thing is ridiculous and very ill thought out. He's easily the weakest character in film.

I know it's a bit silly dissecting films such as Star Wars, but it's the little details that count toward maintaining a believable character in a believable world and the Finn character fails.

That character is a wasted opportunity too. He should have been far more serious and very conflicted, given what we know of his past. His realisation of what the First Order were about and his turning to the resistance should have had more of an oomph. But what happens is that he sees Stormtrooper Steve die and a few civilians get killed, he flips out, takes off his helmet and starts cracking jokes.

This isn't a go at John Boyega. He does ok with what he's got. It's more to do with the writing and direction. He's simply there for unneeded comic relief, because these days it has to be jammed into everything. And frankly, that kind of stuff is best left to Han and Chewie.

NIMAN · 16-05-2016 2:11am

Can I ask all you SW experts a question re: VIII?

I was looking at the images of the 'stars' coming into Belfast for the filming down my neck of the woods this weekend just passed, and I seen Luke, Rey and Kylo and this other guy. I had never seen him before and later found out he was the director!

I had to look him up in IMDB and his record to date isn't exactly filled with big films or anything, so my big question is what has he done to be granted the prestige of directing SW 8 & 9?

Chain Smoker · 16-05-2016 8:12am

NIMAN wrote: »

Can I ask all you SW experts a question re: VIII?

I was looking at the images of the 'stars' coming into Belfast for the filming down my neck of the woods this weekend just passed, and I seen Luke, Rey and Kylo and this other guy. I had never seen him before and later found out he was the director!

I had to look him up in IMDB and his record to date isn't exactly filled with big films or anything, so my big question is what has he done to be granted the prestige of directing SW 8 & 9?

He's only directing 8, and considering Colin Trevorrow (Jurassic World) is directing 9, I dunno if he's the one you should be asking questions about.

He's technically very solid (check out his Breaking Bad episodes, even) and definitely has it in him to make something really good, more so than Abrams. So far his only done original projects, and imo, despite them all being fairly solid works, he's the kind of guy who could benefit hugely from having some restraints.
I'm a big supporter of hiring Johnson, haven't been a big fan of his previous films but he's the kind of guy who could make something genuinely special here.

Trevorrow, on the other hand, done a very nice semi-indie flick but has failed to prove himself in any way at all yet.

johnny_ultimate · 16-05-2016 12:35pm

'Other guy' aka Rian Johnson has established himself, over three films (and a TV series) of increasingly larger scale as somebody capable of telling genre stories with genuine flair and unique twists. He's properly scaled up in his career, as opposed to the unfortunate recent trend of granting young, inexperienced directors the keys to AAA franchises which has yet to pay any real dividends (Treverrow, Gareth Edwards, Josh Trank). I would hope the more gradual progression of Johnson's career to date will manifest itself in a more confident Episode VIII than it would have been with a different director.

I rewatched Looper again recently, and it filled me with quite a bit of confidence about Johnson's suitability for Star Wars (having previously thought he would have been better off sticking with original features). Looper's a great example of taking a grand, potentially dense sci-Fi concept but not getting weighed down by it. Instead it's honed down to a surprisingly intimate, character driven story that works in harmony with the more epic tale playing out in both the foreground and background. That's precisely what's needed in Episode VIII IMO. The Star Wars universe is vast, but it's always been at its best when focusing on a handful of characters and their place in it. If the sort of storytelling philosophy seen in Looper (and of course Brick and Brothers Bloom too) can be carried over without getting jumbled up in the demands of a franchise blockbuster, Johnson certainly has the capability of turning in something special. He's the boldest, most intriguing choice of director for any Star Wars film yet, a welcome change of pace from the safe hands of Abrams.

Episode IX, of course, I'm far less optimistic about :pac:

david75 · 16-05-2016 1:09pm

Rian Johnson is also writing 8 and 9 as well as directing 8. I have a whole lot more faith in him that I do Trevrow or whatever his name is. Jurassic world didn't cut it at all.

Sad Professor · 16-05-2016 1:20pm

Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.

david75 · 16-05-2016 1:23pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.

You're kidding me. That doesn't inspire confidence at all. JW was awful on just about every level. And he wrote it? Oh god

Mr Freeze · 16-05-2016 1:37pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Trevorrow and Derek Connolly are writing Episode 9. It was originally reported that Johnson would be contributing a treatment but that doesn't really mean anything. Trevorrow likes to do his own thing. He threw out the script for Jurassic World when he came onboard and re-wrote it weeks before production started.

Not good.

Sad Professor · 16-05-2016 1:38pm

david75 wrote: »

You're kidding me. That doesn't inspire confidence at all. JW was awful on just about every level. And he wrote it? Oh god

In fairness to him, I think he did a good job all things considered. The script for Episode 9 won't be as rushed as JW was. And Disney may be flexible on the release date if they run into problems.

Based on Safety Not Guaranteed, I think Trevorrow/Connolly are good writers. The big question mark is Trevorrow's directing ability. I'm reluctant to judge him on the basis of JW since I doubt he had much creative freedom on it. I mean, Marc Webb showed a lot of flair in 500 Days of Summer that you won't find in his Spider-Man films.

Johnson is easy to like. He's made 3 independent films that are very much is own. Had he taken a big budget for-hire gig like Webb and Trevorrow we might feel different about him.

david75 · 16-05-2016 2:33pm

Sorta have the feeling 9 will be a big action film I suppose much like Jedi was in terms of what is it, 3 or 4 battles going on at once? Maybe he's good at that stuff?

Kidchameleon · 16-05-2016 4:57pm

Anyone is an improvement on Abrams

aloyisious · 16-05-2016 5:32pm

Tony EH wrote: »

That was me and it still isn't convincing I'm afraid.

His whole character is silly though. He's supposed to be kidnapped by the First Order as a child, which means that the First Order has been around over 20 years?

He then spends his entire life serving as a Stormtrooper in a highly regimented and extremely rigid military system, knowing nothing else but that system.

But, his "first" mission was on Jakku? A mission where he sees civvies getting killed by his mates and it makes him chuck a wobbler and freak out?

What the hell did he think the First Order was about for the previous 20 years? What was HE doing for the last 20 years. He can't have been on toilet detail for 2 decades.

The whole thing is ridiculous and very ill thought out. He's easily the weakest character in film.

I know it's a bit silly dissecting films such as Star Wars, but it's the little details that count toward maintaining a believable character in a believable world and the Finn character fails.

That character is a wasted opportunity too. He should have been far more serious and very conflicted, given what we know of his past. His realisation of what the First Order were about and his turning to the resistance should have had more of an oomph. But what happens is that he sees Stormtrooper Steve die and a few civilians get killed, he flips out, takes off his helmet and starts cracking jokes.

This isn't a go at John Boyega. He does ok with what he's got. It's more to do with the writing and direction. He's simply there for unneeded comic relief, because these days it has to be jammed into everything. And frankly, that kind of stuff is best left to Han and Chewie.

That sound's like combat fatigue, PTSD.

johnny_ultimate · 16-05-2016 11:32pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Anyone is an improvement on Abrams

Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Gavin Hood, Tim Story, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other middling or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even rudimentary visual/storytelling competence or imagination.

Did I mention George Lucas?

Falthyron · 16-05-2016 11:33pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other mediocre or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even basic visual/storytelling competence.

Did I mention George Lucas?

You forgot the legendary Uwe Boll.

Frank O. Pinion · 17-05-2016 10:51am

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

the unfortunate recent trend of granting young, inexperienced directors the keys to AAA franchises which has yet to pay any real dividends (Treverrow)

Is $1.6 billion not a real dividend?

johnny_ultimate · 17-05-2016 11:31am

Obviously should have clarified artistic dividends

Sad Professor · 17-05-2016 12:13pm

In fairness, the system is kinda rigged against these guys. Nolan is the template, but he didn't get complete creative freedom until TDK. And even that was a test to see if they would trust him again. So it took him 3 studio films to gain the artistic freedom needed to make Inception. Had one of three films disappointed, he was screwed and Inception wouldn't have been made.

As I've suggested before, though, Treverrow seems to have friends in high places. Bird, Spielberg, etc, who seem to rank him very highly. They were pushing him for Episode 7 but Disney weren't having it.

johnny_ultimate · 17-05-2016 12:54pm

Yeah I blame the system more than I do the individual directors. Just remains disheartening to see promising young talent turning out bland studio fodder rather than taking the opportunity to scale upwards more gently - although I'm sure the offers they get are too good to refuse.

But then Hollywood has bested even tried and tested directors. Kim Jee-woon? Ingmar Bergman?

Kidchameleon · 17-05-2016 3:26pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Except, for example, Michael Bay, Brett Ratner, Zack Snyder, Tyler Perry, Chris Columbus, Gore Verbinski, Tim Burton (modern Tim Burton, anyway), Aaron Seltzer, Jason Freidberg, George Lucas, Gavin O'Connor, Jon M Chu, M Night Shyamalan, Bill Condon, Gavin Hood, Tim Story, Kevin Smith, Roland Emmerich, McG, Pitof and the many, many other middling or worse work(wo)men churning out films often devoid of even rudimentary visual/storytelling competence or imagination.

Did I mention George Lucas?

There is zero imagination on show in TFA, absolutely ZERO!

david75 · 17-05-2016 4:09pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There is zero imagination on show in TFA, absolutely ZERO!

Millions of Star Wars fans both hardcore and casual seem to disagree with you.

Kidchameleon · 17-05-2016 7:55pm

david75 wrote: »

Millions of Star Wars fans both hardcore and casual seem to disagree with you.

Millions of viewers != good film

david75 · 17-05-2016 8:22pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Millions of viewers != good film

Gaggle of naysayers = it must be awful!

Tony EH · 17-05-2016 10:05pm

Mr. chameleon does have a point though. While it's a fairly entertaining film (even with its very large flaws), it's completely bereft of any real ideas or imagination. A film that's very much a safe and by the numbers riff on the original Star Wars.

Myrddin · 18-05-2016 4:29pm

Tony EH wrote: »

A film that's very much a safe and by the numbers riff on the original Star Wars.

After the complete smouldering mess Lucas left the franchise in, I think a safe, by the numbers Star Wars film was exactly what was needed. They've restored the faith of a lot of film, and can now, afford to push the boat out for the remaining two.

Tony EH · 18-05-2016 4:41pm

I don't disagree at all. But I think that that is what's informing a lot of peoples assessment of this film. The fact that this film didn't completely suck donkey balls, like the prequels, allows a ton of people to give it a pass that they wouldn't necessarily do under different circumstances.

Myrddin · 18-05-2016 5:26pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't disagree at all. But I think that that is what's informing a lot of peoples assessment of this film. The fact that this film didn't completely suck donkey balls, like the prequels, allows a ton of people to give it a pass that they wouldn't necessarily do under different circumstances.

So if the prequels were never made, we'd all be a lot more harsh on Ep 7? Hmm, can't say I agree...I enjoyed it for what it was, a thoroughly enjoyable Star Wars romp...just as much as I enjoyed it for setting the record straight. Ok, we can all admit it was damn near a reboot than a sequel, but again, I enjoyed the hell out of it (twice now). Lest we also forget, it's only one part out of a trilogy, so there were more questions raised in it than were answered - I reckon we can really only judge the whole thing after Ep 9

david75 · 18-05-2016 6:26pm

Just reading that something like 24 people with terminal illnesses all got to see FA up to a month before its release. A Lucasfilm or bad robot employee travelled to each of their homes or hospitals, all over the place, and before the film was shown to them JJ would call them and talk to them and explain a few things and wish them well.

That's a class act.

IvySlayer · 18-05-2016 6:29pm

Films are made by committee nowadays to be fair.

They needed a safe film, which is what Force Awakens was. I would love Jon Favreau to get a shot at directing one.

david75 · 18-05-2016 6:47pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

Films are made by committee nowadays to be fair.

They needed a safe film, which is what Force Awakens was. I would love Jon Favreau to get a shot at directing one.

I think Rians gonna do an amazing job. In fact all these people complaining it was too like the original, this next one is gonna be accused of being too different I reckon.

py2006 · 18-05-2016 6:49pm

david75 wrote: »

this next one is gonna be accused of being too different I reckon.

I was thinking that myself

Kidchameleon · 18-05-2016 8:21pm

david75 wrote: »

I think Rians gonna do an amazing job. In fact all these people complaining it was too like the original, this next one is gonna be accused of being too different I reckon.

I saw a quote from Rian saying he was going to "break the mould". Cant link but a google search will bring it up. Time travel maybe?

Sad Professor · 18-05-2016 8:26pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I saw a quote from Rian saying he was going to "break the mould". Cant link but a google search will bring it up. Time travel maybe?

I don't think Johnson ever said that. He has said practically nothing about the film so far. You are probably thinking of Kasdan's comments about the film being a "weird thing" and tbh I think that was mostly based on Kasdan's opinion of Johnson's previous films.

david75 · 18-05-2016 9:36pm

Kasdan said 'it's a weird thing' Isaac 'much darker/more intimate feels like an independent film' Boyega said 'bigger and darker'

From that alone you can see it'll be a modern version of 'dark' but seen through a Star Wars filter. Intriguing.

I'm thinking Luke found Rey as a child cos she was so powerful. Kylo was being groomed by Snoke and was jealous of Rey. He later kills Reys parents and Luke is forced to flee with her. Not being able to kill his nephew. Gets Han to hide her (unkaar plutt) goes to find out how the dark side is rising if he's killed the emperor already. (Maybe doesn't realise it's Snoke or doesn't know who he is). On his way buries her parents on Acch to and returns there and is waiting for her when she comes looking for him. The huge big spoiler released today backs some of that up. Also explains why Han and Chewie seem to know her and Kylo knows from the get go.

My 2 cents

Zubeneschamali · 19-05-2016 10:45am

david75 wrote: »

Kasdan said 'it's a weird thing' Isaac 'much darker/more intimate feels like an independent film' Boyega said 'bigger and darker'

From that alone you can see it'll be a modern version of 'dark' but seen through a Star Wars filter. Intriguing.

Well, of course it will. TFA was a remake of Star Wars, so Ep. VIII will be Empire again.

Then Ep. IX will have the Ewoks beat Snoke with sticks, and the new Han young actor will reappear as a ghost! What could go wrong?

Tony EH · 19-05-2016 12:09pm

Myrddin wrote: »

So if the prequels were never made, we'd all be a lot more harsh on Ep 7? Hmm, can't say I agree...I enjoyed it for what it was, a thoroughly enjoyable Star Wars romp...just as much as I enjoyed it for setting the record straight. Ok, we can all admit it was damn near a reboot than a sequel, but again, I enjoyed the hell out of it (twice now). Lest we also forget, it's only one part out of a trilogy, so there were more questions raised in it than were answered - I reckon we can really only judge the whole thing after Ep 9

Well, I think the assessment would be more realistic (not necessarily "harsh"), if the prequels had been better films, or just not made at all.

Seriously, there has been a awful lot of guff over 'The Force Awakens', which I agree, is much more of a reboot (or a direct riff) of the original 'Star Wars'.

True, it's part one of a trilogy, so we can be better judges when that trilogy is complete. But as a film in and of itself, it really is just a retread of the 1977 movie to a large degree and that's my issue with it. The questions it raises aren't problems for me. That's part and parcel of a three act setting.

Hopefully, now that they've got the copycat thing out of their system, Disney can let the writers and directors go their own route with the next couple of films. If Episode VIII and IX are "reboots" of 'The Empire Strikes Back' and 'Return of the Jedi', I think a lot of fans are going to start asking awkward questions.

david75 · 20-05-2016 7:56pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, I think the assessment would be more realistic (not necessarily "harsh"), if the prequels had been better films, or just not made at all.

Seriously, there has been a awful lot of guff over 'The Force Awakens', which I agree, is much more of a reboot (or a direct riff) of the original 'Star Wars'.

True, it's part one of a trilogy, so we can be better judges when that trilogy is complete. But as a film in and of itself, it really is just a retread of the 1977 movie to a large degree and that's my issue with it. The questions it raises aren't problems for me. That's part and parcel of a three act setting.

Hopefully, now that they've got the copycat thing out of their system, Disney can let the writers and directors go their own route with the next couple of films. If Episode VIII and IX are "reboots" of 'The Empire Strikes Back' and 'Return of the Jedi', I think a lot of fans are going to start asking awkward questions.

Fair point. I think they've given us our treat. Now they're gonna expand and develop. There's mountains of money riding on this. Nobody wants repeats. They arent dumb enough to try doing that. Nor are they that unimaginative. You don't hire the people they have writing and directing if you want to repeat.

Episode 8 may well be the best of the entire series, and that's just based on director choice and if that leaked description of what they've filmed here is even remotely true.

Tony EH · 20-05-2016 9:23pm

Perhaps, you never know. But I don't think they'll top 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Not with the characters they've established in this trilogy.

Certainly the opportunities are there to create something really fantastic. There always is in the Star Wars universe. But, somehow, a lot of people seem to screw it up.

Personally, I'm more looking forward to 'Rogue One' than 'Episode VIII' and I have absolutely ZERO interest in a film about Han Solo starring Hobie Doyle. I think that may be a serious misstep for Disney and I would rather they made standalone Star Wars films about new characters or even the likes of Kyle Katarn or someone, rather than milking everyone's favorite characters in order to assure some bums on seats.

Would that it were so simple.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Comments

Star Wars: The Force Awakens [ SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD ]