Star Wars: The Force Awakens [ SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD ]

david75 wrote: »

You could use a good kiss!!

That whole dynamic with Han and leia in empire has some hysterical moments. Plus the intro to yoda is quite funny. Was watching a doco about it the other night and kirshner and most of the crew were freaked out about yoda. The whole film was riding on yoda. They were terrified it was gonna look ridiculous and not work on screen. Look how well it worked though. He's brilliant.

I still find the muppet very convincing, much more so than the awful CGI mess that stank up the prequels. Although he certainly wasn't alone in that venture.

The "backwards" talking got a bit much too. It was fine in the OT, but in the prequels it was over done and got old real quick.

The producers of Star Wars have a lot to thank Frank Oz for. In weaker hands that muppet would have looked ridiculous.

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Yea, there definitely has been some great lines in the original star wars... usually by Han..

Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh everything s perfectly all right now. We re fine. We re all fine here now, thank you. (Winces.) Uh, how are you?

Keep your distance, Chewie, but don t, y know, look like you re keeping your distance. (??.)
I don t know. Fly casual.

Yeh, Solo and Chewie's interaction was a great setup. Thing is though, you could buy into their schtick as it wasn't overbaked. The audience can't understand what Chewie was saying, so the punchline only jokes had to be perfectly delivered by Ford, otherwise it would come off as silly. Their "relationship" also felt like it had some history to it as well. Han Solo and Chewbacca looked like they had been through a few moments together.

The problem with the new films is that none of the new characters feel in any way "real" (in the sense that you could fully buy into their characters), apart from Kylo Ren to a certain degree. Rey is far too good at everything she touches, Poe is just there and Finn is a stupid buffoon as soon as he takes off his helmet, because for some reason producers feel the need to shove comic relief down the audience's throat, whether they want it or not.

Maybe with the next film under the trilogy's belt, we'll see more to their character emerge. Who knows.

homerun_homer

Giving out about the amount of time Rey had with Han is the equivalent of giving out about Luke's amount of time with Obi Wan. And generally plot holes are in all the movies so I don't think episode VII should be seen as being weak because of it.

Actually yeah, thinking about the originals there were some funny moments ..

I've been thinking more of the prequels - who could forget the hilarity of Jar Jar Binks...

You could use a good kiss!!

That whole dynamic with Han and leia in empire has some hysterical moments. Plus the intro to yoda is quite funny. Was watching a doco about it the other night and kirshner and most of the crew were freaked out about yoda. The whole film was riding on yoda. They were terrified it was gonna look ridiculous and not work on screen. Look how well it worked though. He's brilliant.

Brief_Lives

Tony EH wrote: »

There's always been some humour in Star Wars films. It's always been fairly subtle though and that's the best way to keep it. I'm taking about the real releases now, not this piss poor Lucas special eds.

Yea, there definitely has been some great lines in the original star wars... usually by Han..

Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh everything s perfectly all right now. We re fine. We re all fine here now, thank you. (Winces.) Uh, how are you?

Keep your distance, Chewie, but don t, y know, look like you re keeping your distance. (??.)
I don t know. Fly casual.

There's always been some humour in Star Wars films. It's always been fairly subtle though and that's the best way to keep it. I'm taking about the real releases now, not this piss poor Lucas special eds.

That was one of the things that really bugged me about the new one. The buffoonery of Finn was waaaay too much sometimes. Eye rolling at certain points. :rolleyes:

However, that stormtrooper scene was great.

SpaceCowb0y wrote: »

Had my first rewatch last night since i saw it at the previews! Still love it just as much, same plot flaws blahdy blah still prominent but as I said after my first viewing... i do not care if this is a rehash it is awesome and love seeing all the old characters again and love the fact they have humanised the cast injecting humour into the performances. The scene where the two storm trooper do a u-turn upon hearing Kylo Ren smash up the place having a fit still cracked me up (id forgotten that bit)

Yep ! and it worked, who ever thought humour would work in a star wars movie !!

Conall Cernach

I also enjoyed it after a re-watch but the things that bugged me after my initial viewing still bug me. The pacing seems very off for me. Rey literally only knows Han for the length of time they are on screen together, travel to different worlds takes moments now and there is no sense of scale e.g. when Rey and Finn take the Falcon a beacon is set off and Han and Chewie turn up a few minutes later. Could they not have had Rey and Finn floating around in space trying to fix the Falcon for a bit, cut to another scene and then cut back to the two of them when Han turns up so that we get the impression that at least some time has passed?

Also that entire scene with Han smuggling monsters is completely pointless and doesn't add a thing to the story. They could just as well have had Han and Chewie turn up in another small freighter rather than the huge ship they now have.

There's an incredible amount of hand waving going on with Poe's survival and return to the Resistance base.

Snoke looks even worse on the small screen than he did through 3d glasses.

SpaceCowb0y

Had my first rewatch last night since i saw it at the previews! Still love it just as much, same plot flaws blahdy blah still prominent but as I said after my first viewing... i do not care if this is a rehash it is awesome and love seeing all the old characters again and love the fact they have humanised the cast injecting humour into the performances. The scene where the two storm trooper do a u-turn upon hearing Kylo Ren smash up the place having a fit still cracked me up (id forgotten that bit)

Watched it again there on bluRay, wow it's even better then I remembered !

Really impatient to see Ep. VIII now!!

Cool ideas. Just don't think Disney will let it go that way. And Johnson has a thing for connections /families. And he's writing so..

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

Ps the orphan thing doesn't fly. They spent so much time in FA on her family and her wondering and them showing them leave. No way would they tie that up with 'she's an orphan'

You have to think of it in dramatic terms.

Rey didn't spend all those years waiting for her family to come back for nothing. She needed to believe that they were coming back even if deep down she knew they weren't. Both Maz and Kylo sense this and Maz tells her she has to move on. But Rey can't. She *needs* to believe that she had a family who loved her and will come back for her one day. No matter how powerful in the Force she is, this is her weakness, her Achilles heel, which she exposed to Kylo.

It's actually the perfect revelation: "You're family? Oh yes I found them. They were scavengers, they didn't want you and sold you in exchange for transport off the planet. Nobody is coming back for you, nobody loves you, you aren't special, you are just a girl from nowhere." This is basically played out in TFA already, but I don't think they are done with it yet.

We also have to consider why the "I am your father" revelation worked so well. It wasn't because it was a big surprise, but because it shattered everything Luke believed about himself and what he was doing. He couldn't trust anything anymore. If Rey needs to believe that she's loved, what happens if she finds out that she wasn't?

Ps the orphan thing doesn't fly. They spent so much time in FA on her family and her wondering and them showing them leave. No way would they tie that up with 'she's an orphan'

Sad Professor wrote: »

Because of the lightsaber. It called to Rey who used it to defeat Kylo. Leia trusts the Force, thus she sends Rey to Luke.

I think this was probably clearer in the script before they re-wrote and re-shot Maz's role, which originally included a lot more stuff about the lightsaber, such as how she found it and a scene in which she gives it to Leia and explains Rey's importance. Leia then gave it to Finn knowing it would find its way back to Rey. Abrams changed this during reshoots to Maz giving it to Finn herself, allowing them to cut the rest of her scenes.

I also think it's pretty obvious there was more dialogue between Rey and Leia that was cut, especially in their final scene. As it stands they say barely anything to each other. I see only two reasons for this: it revealed that Rey was Han and Leia's daughter as originally rumoured before Abrams abandoned the idea, or it had left over stuff about the lightsaber that no longer made sense with the Maz stuff excised. I'm leaning towards the latter, especially in light of Abrams's comments about re-writing Han and Rey's relationship after Ford was injured to make it more father/daughter-like.

As I've said before, though, I really don't think Abrams had a plan for Rey. The original concept of the character as conceived by Kennedy and/or Arndt was that she would be a stand-in for a new generation of viewers who don't know who Luke Skywalker is, so I don't think they wanted this film bogged down with familial revelations. It's also not Abrams's style to make plans for things - Lost fans will back me up on this. Kasdan had an interview in which he said they did not want to dictate what direction the story would go in, i.e. "we left everything really open ended to maximise future story options", which was precisely the strategy on Lost.

If Johnson wants to make Rey Luke's daughter that's up to him, but the way Abrams and Kasdan left it, it could go any number of ways. But given his penchant for orphans, I think that's what she'll be.

She is not Leias daughter. By anyone. I'm not finished Blood Line but it's set 7 years before FA, Leia is the central character, Ben has been mentioned several times already and no mention of a daughter or Anything about a blow by or daughter she sent away. Plus it's been established a plenty she's not leias daughter.

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

Why else would leia who is 'desperate to find her for her Luke' send a girl she's never met to find him?

Because of the lightsaber. It called to Rey who used it to defeat Kylo. Leia trusts the Force, thus she sends Rey to Luke.

I think this was probably clearer in the script before they re-wrote and re-shot Maz's role, which originally included a lot more stuff about the lightsaber, such as how she found it and a scene in which she gives it to Leia and explains Rey's importance. Leia then gave it to Finn knowing it would find its way back to Rey. Abrams changed this during reshoots to Maz giving it to Finn herself, allowing them to cut the rest of her scenes.

I also think it's pretty obvious there was more dialogue between Rey and Leia that was cut, especially in their final scene. As it stands they say barely anything to each other. I see only two reasons for this: it revealed that Rey was Han and Leia's daughter as originally rumoured before Abrams abandoned the idea, or it had left over stuff about the lightsaber that no longer made sense with the Maz stuff excised. I'm leaning towards the latter, especially in light of Abrams's comments about re-writing Han and Rey's relationship after Ford was injured to make it more father/daughter-like.

As I've said before, though, I really don't think Abrams had a plan for Rey. The original concept of the character as conceived by Kennedy and/or Arndt was that she would be a stand-in for a new generation of viewers who don't know who Luke Skywalker is, so I don't think they wanted this film bogged down with familial revelations. It's also not Abrams's style to make plans for things - Lost fans will back me up on this. Kasdan had an interview in which he said they did not want to dictate what direction the story would go in, i.e. "we left everything really open ended to maximise future story options", which was precisely the strategy on Lost.

If Johnson wants to make Rey Luke's daughter that's up to him, but the way Abrams and Kasdan left it, it could go any number of ways. But given his penchant for orphans, I think that's what she'll be.

Also a lot can be taken from that and what he said about it which was basically we wanted leia meeting Rey to have a real weight to it.

It also lends a lot of fuel to the who is Rey question. She's not leias daughter that we know but leia already knows what Hans meant to her without her even being mildly force sensitive about it plus we don't know that Han hasnt filled leia in about the fact he's found Lukes daughter.

Why else would leia who is 'desperate to find her for her Luke' send a girl she's never met to find him?

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end and after Han's death, Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

This caused huge outcry and Abrams admitted they dropped the ball there and leia and Chewie should have had a moment.

Sad Professor

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

Yeah this has been discussed. Abrams admitted it was bad blocking.

Ben Gadot

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end and after Han's death, Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

Bear in mind. Rogue one will be a prequel.

Shudder to think that it might actually be good

Zubeneschamali

If it is in Star Wars, the original movie, it is canon.

So the prequels are right out.

Still more entertaining than people being totally lazy and beating that point to death. Five whole months later.

Kidchameleon

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

Because JJ Abrams took the easy route and rehashed what went before

Burgo

cowboyBuilder wrote:

So it's canon then ? How is it decided what is canon and what isn't ?

The lucasfilm story group was created to determine what's canon and not a few years ago. They were responsible for retiring the existing EU to the legend status to promote the singular canon we have now under Disney. One of the members Pablo Hidalgo is pretty active on Twitter, he usually answers fan questions.

david75 wrote: »

Just started reading Bloodline by Claudia Gray which follows Princess Leia and is set a few years before the Force Awakens. Really good so far.
Ben is still training with Luke at this point and she is still married to Han and considering leaving the senate, and I'm guessing the republic finds out Vader was her father and it's a big scandal. (He's on the cover behind her).

Rian Johnson who's directing and writing episode 8 and 9 helped write this book and it's confirmed there's lots of connective tissue that'll fill out a lot of things in the films and set others up in the upcoming films.

So it's canon then ?
How is it decided what is canon and what isn't ?

Osmosis Jones

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

Because a movie based around the current Carrie Fisher would be a nightmare :pac:

Mitch Connor

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

So they can make a prequel to the sequel.

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.