Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Zubeneschamali

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The word Minichlorian does not appear in the rough drafts but Lucas had the idea that the force has some kind of biological aspect from early on. He goes into detail about the whole thing in the DVD commentary of the phantom menace.

Lucas makes up a lot of stuff about things which were "always" in Star Wars.

Kidchameleon

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Lucas makes up a lot of stuff about things which were "always" in Star Wars.

He does indeed but if you look at the quote in my post you'll see that in this case, the concept of midichlorians is not one of those things.

Zubeneschamali

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Lucas makes up a lot of stuff about things which were "always" in Star Wars.

He does indeed but if you look at the quote in my post you'll see that in this case, the concept of midichlorians is not one of those things.

No, I see a mention of Luke's untrained sister - nothing about midichlorians. Things Lucas said in 2000 about what he thought in 1975 are neither here not there, since we know he made a lot of that up.

Kidchameleon

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, I see a mention of Luke's untrained sister - nothing about midichlorians. Things Lucas said in 2000 about what he thought in 1975 are neither here not there, since we know he made a lot of that up.

Read my last two posts again

Zubeneschamali

If you are just saying that Force ability is inherited, well sure - that's on-screen in the original Star Wars: not everyone is force sensitive - Luke is a Jedi because his father was a Jedi.

But The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together

Nothing about magic bacteria.

Zubeneschamali

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OhHiMark

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Read my last two posts again

What does that have to do with the concept of midichlorians? Luke basically says the same thing as Yoda there in Return of the Jedi.

Tony EH

Looking around the web, it seems that Lucas had an idea that the people who were "Force sensitive" (I hate that term), were physically different than, er, normal beings. Their "brains" were different. He got this idea after 'Star Wars' had been released and turned into a huge success. He was trying to come up with some guidelines for the expanded universe, which he was eager to see happen.

But, the moniker of "Midichlorian" wasn't mentioned, because he hadn't named his vague idea yet and apart from some cloudy off the cuff notion, there was no other mention of it for 20 odd years when he effectively came up with the idea of microscopic life forms for 'The Phantom Menace'.

However, it seems that Lucas wanted to retcon the idea during the time of the prequels and make it look like this was the way things were all the time. J.W. Rinzler was told to include the name in "The Making Of Star Wars" in an effort to tie everything in.

This is just problem No. 6377473 in the Star Wars universe that was sparked off when George decided to do prequels instead of sequels and neglected to use the original canon outlines laid down in the proper Star Wars trilogy.

The Force should simply be "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together" with some beings being more in tune with it than others. That's all we needed. We didn't need to know any more.

david75

Just started reading Bloodline by Claudia Gray which follows Princess Leia and is set a few years before the Force Awakens. Really good so far.
Ben is still training with Luke at this point and she is still married to Han and considering leaving the senate, and I'm guessing the republic finds out Vader was her father and it's a big scandal. (He's on the cover behind her).

Rian Johnson who's directing and writing episode 8 and 9 helped write this book and it's confirmed there's lots of connective tissue that'll fill out a lot of things in the films and set others up in the upcoming films.

Tony EH

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

Mitch Connor

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

So they can make a prequel to the sequel.

Osmosis Jones

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

Because a movie based around the current Carrie Fisher would be a nightmare :pac:

cowboyBuilder

david75 wrote: »

Just started reading Bloodline by Claudia Gray which follows Princess Leia and is set a few years before the Force Awakens. Really good so far.
Ben is still training with Luke at this point and she is still married to Han and considering leaving the senate, and I'm guessing the republic finds out Vader was her father and it's a big scandal. (He's on the cover behind her).

Rian Johnson who's directing and writing episode 8 and 9 helped write this book and it's confirmed there's lots of connective tissue that'll fill out a lot of things in the films and set others up in the upcoming films.

So it's canon then ?
How is it decided what is canon and what isn't ?

Burgo

cowboyBuilder wrote:

So it's canon then ? How is it decided what is canon and what isn't ?

The lucasfilm story group was created to determine what's canon and not a few years ago. They were responsible for retiring the existing EU to the legend status to promote the singular canon we have now under Disney. One of the members Pablo Hidalgo is pretty active on Twitter, he usually answers fan questions.

Kidchameleon

Tony EH wrote: »

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Why didn't they make that bloody film?

Sounds better than 'The Force Awakens'.

Because JJ Abrams took the easy route and rehashed what went before

david75

Still more entertaining than people being totally lazy and beating that point to death. Five whole months later.

Zubeneschamali

If it is in Star Wars, the original movie, it is canon.

So the prequels are right out.

david75

Bear in mind. Rogue one will be a prequel.


Shudder to think that it might actually be good

Ben Gadot

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end and after Han's death, Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

Sad Professor

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

Yeah this has been discussed. Abrams admitted it was bad blocking.

david75

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Just rewatched it today and it's as enjoyable as ever, just one thing I noticed this time: at the end and after Han's death, Leia is looking only at Rey, yet you can see Chewie in the frame and they don't even acknowledge each other. Chewie just breezes past Leia who doesn't even look at him.

This caused huge outcry and Abrams admitted they dropped the ball there and leia and Chewie should have had a moment.

david75

Also a lot can be taken from that and what he said about it which was basically we wanted leia meeting Rey to have a real weight to it.

It also lends a lot of fuel to the who is Rey question. She's not leias daughter that we know but leia already knows what Hans meant to her without her even being mildly force sensitive about it plus we don't know that Han hasnt filled leia in about the fact he's found Lukes daughter.


Why else would leia who is 'desperate to find her for her Luke' send a girl she's never met to find him?

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

Why else would leia who is 'desperate to find her for her Luke' send a girl she's never met to find him?

Because of the lightsaber. It called to Rey who used it to defeat Kylo. Leia trusts the Force, thus she sends Rey to Luke.

I think this was probably clearer in the script before they re-wrote and re-shot Maz's role, which originally included a lot more stuff about the lightsaber, such as how she found it and a scene in which she gives it to Leia and explains Rey's importance. Leia then gave it to Finn knowing it would find its way back to Rey. Abrams changed this during reshoots to Maz giving it to Finn herself, allowing them to cut the rest of her scenes.

I also think it's pretty obvious there was more dialogue between Rey and Leia that was cut, especially in their final scene. As it stands they say barely anything to each other. I see only two reasons for this: it revealed that Rey was Han and Leia's daughter as originally rumoured before Abrams abandoned the idea, or it had left over stuff about the lightsaber that no longer made sense with the Maz stuff excised. I'm leaning towards the latter, especially in light of Abrams's comments about re-writing Han and Rey's relationship after Ford was injured to make it more father/daughter-like.

As I've said before, though, I really don't think Abrams had a plan for Rey. The original concept of the character as conceived by Kennedy and/or Arndt was that she would be a stand-in for a new generation of viewers who don't know who Luke Skywalker is, so I don't think they wanted this film bogged down with familial revelations. It's also not Abrams's style to make plans for things - Lost fans will back me up on this. Kasdan had an interview in which he said they did not want to dictate what direction the story would go in, i.e. "we left everything really open ended to maximise future story options", which was precisely the strategy on Lost.

If Johnson wants to make Rey Luke's daughter that's up to him, but the way Abrams and Kasdan left it, it could go any number of ways. But given his penchant for orphans, I think that's what she'll be.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

Because of the lightsaber. It called to Rey who used it to defeat Kylo. Leia trusts the Force, thus she sends Rey to Luke.

I think this was probably clearer in the script before they re-wrote and re-shot Maz's role, which originally included a lot more stuff about the lightsaber, such as how she found it and a scene in which she gives it to Leia and explains Rey's importance. Leia then gave it to Finn knowing it would find its way back to Rey. Abrams changed this during reshoots to Maz giving it to Finn herself, allowing them to cut the rest of her scenes.

I also think it's pretty obvious there was more dialogue between Rey and Leia that was cut, especially in their final scene. As it stands they say barely anything to each other. I see only two reasons for this: it revealed that Rey was Han and Leia's daughter as originally rumoured before Abrams abandoned the idea, or it had left over stuff about the lightsaber that no longer made sense with the Maz stuff excised. I'm leaning towards the latter, especially in light of Abrams's comments about re-writing Han and Rey's relationship after Ford was injured to make it more father/daughter-like.

As I've said before, though, I really don't think Abrams had a plan for Rey. The original concept of the character as conceived by Kennedy and/or Arndt was that she would be a stand-in for a new generation of viewers who don't know who Luke Skywalker is, so I don't think they wanted this film bogged down with familial revelations. It's also not Abrams's style to make plans for things - Lost fans will back me up on this. Kasdan had an interview in which he said they did not want to dictate what direction the story would go in, i.e. "we left everything really open ended to maximise future story options", which was precisely the strategy on Lost.

If Johnson wants to make Rey Luke's daughter that's up to him, but the way Abrams and Kasdan left it, it could go any number of ways. But given his penchant for orphans, I think that's what she'll be.

She is not Leias daughter. By anyone. I'm not finished Blood Line but it's set 7 years before FA, Leia is the central character, Ben has been mentioned several times already and no mention of a daughter or Anything about a blow by or daughter she sent away. Plus it's been established a plenty she's not leias daughter.

david75

Ps the orphan thing doesn't fly. They spent so much time in FA on her family and her wondering and them showing them leave. No way would they tie that up with 'she's an orphan'

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

Ps the orphan thing doesn't fly. They spent so much time in FA on her family and her wondering and them showing them leave. No way would they tie that up with 'she's an orphan'

You have to think of it in dramatic terms.

Rey didn't spend all those years waiting for her family to come back for nothing. She needed to believe that they were coming back even if deep down she knew they weren't. Both Maz and Kylo sense this and Maz tells her she has to move on. But Rey can't. She *needs* to believe that she had a family who loved her and will come back for her one day. No matter how powerful in the Force she is, this is her weakness, her Achilles heel, which she exposed to Kylo.

It's actually the perfect revelation: "You're family? Oh yes I found them. They were scavengers, they didn't want you and sold you in exchange for transport off the planet. Nobody is coming back for you, nobody loves you, you aren't special, you are just a girl from nowhere." This is basically played out in TFA already, but I don't think they are done with it yet.

We also have to consider why the "I am your father" revelation worked so well. It wasn't because it was a big surprise, but because it shattered everything Luke believed about himself and what he was doing. He couldn't trust anything anymore. If Rey needs to believe that she's loved, what happens if she finds out that she wasn't?

david75

Cool ideas. Just don't think Disney will let it go that way. And Johnson has a thing for connections /families. And he's writing so..

cowboyBuilder

Watched it again there on bluRay, wow it's even better then I remembered !

Really impatient to see Ep. VIII now!!

SpaceCowb0y

Had my first rewatch last night since i saw it at the previews! Still love it just as much, same plot flaws blahdy blah still prominent but as I said after my first viewing... i do not care if this is a rehash it is awesome and love seeing all the old characters again and love the fact they have humanised the cast injecting humour into the performances. The scene where the two storm trooper do a u-turn upon hearing Kylo Ren smash up the place having a fit still cracked me up (id forgotten that bit)

Conall Cernach

I also enjoyed it after a re-watch but the things that bugged me after my initial viewing still bug me. The pacing seems very off for me. Rey literally only knows Han for the length of time they are on screen together, travel to different worlds takes moments now and there is no sense of scale e.g. when Rey and Finn take the Falcon a beacon is set off and Han and Chewie turn up a few minutes later. Could they not have had Rey and Finn floating around in space trying to fix the Falcon for a bit, cut to another scene and then cut back to the two of them when Han turns up so that we get the impression that at least some time has passed?

Also that entire scene with Han smuggling monsters is completely pointless and doesn't add a thing to the story. They could just as well have had Han and Chewie turn up in another small freighter rather than the huge ship they now have.

There's an incredible amount of hand waving going on with Poe's survival and return to the Resistance base.

Snoke looks even worse on the small screen than he did through 3d glasses.