Diesel's days are numbered.

Long Time Lurker · 28-04-2016 07:14AM

Interesting

Take a look at @GregKable's Tweet: https://twitter.com/GregKable/status/725386541841932289?s=09

Special Circumstances · 28-04-2016 08:14AM

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/audi-mercedes-opel-porsche-and-vw-recall-630000-diesel-powered-cars

EGRs not active on cold days by design. Nox emissions much worse than previously thought.

Or in the case of all the cars with them silly things blanked off, permanently spewing crap out.

28-04-2016 12:11PM

Diesel cars without the Particulate filter are already banned from driving in Stuttgart, it's one of the worst cities in Germany for air pollution at certain times.

My partners Dad's caddy would not be allowed into Stuttgart without the particulate filter and the green sticker on the windscreen.

Long Time Lurker · 29-04-2016 09:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Diesel cars without the Particulate filter are already banned from driving in Stuttgart, it's one of the worst cities in Germany for air pollution at certain times.

My partners Dad's caddy would not be allowed into Stuttgart without the particulate filter and the green sticker on the windscreen.

I'd argue that private motor vehicles of any sort have no place in a city centre, town centre or local village environment. The core of any of these places should be pedestrian and bicycle zones only. The idea that people would walk on the side of a motorway is ridiculous yet we tolerate heavy car/van/bus traffic mixing with people in tight confined spaces such as city centres.

Sure I'd go for axing of diesel in these spaces too but ultimately walk or cycle is the way to cleaner safer living.

ShaunieVW · 29-04-2016 09:32AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Sure I'd go for axing of diesel in these spaces too but ultimately walk or cycle is the way to cleaner safer living.

That's all well and good in an urbanised area or even with access to public transport. I live in the countryside in a small village. Due to cutbacks we now have zero public transport. The nearest majorish town is 25km away. I have no choice but to drive to work on a daily basis. I'd love to be able to get the bus as it means I could afford to have some mad yoke for my days off and not care about fuel economy!

29-04-2016 09:35AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Diesel cars without the Particulate filter are already banned from driving in Stuttgart, it's one of the worst cities in Germany for air pollution at certain times.

My partners Dad's caddy would not be allowed into Stuttgart without the particulate filter and the green sticker on the windscreen.

I'd argue that private motor vehicles of any sort have no place in a city centre, town centre or local village environment. The core of any of these places should be pedestrian and bicycle zones only. The idea that people would walk on the side of a motorway is ridiculous yet we tolerate heavy car/van/bus traffic mixing with people in tight confined spaces such as city centres.

Sure I'd go for axing of diesel in these spaces too but ultimately walk or cycle is the way to cleaner safer living.

There are plenty of people who come from outside of town or city to work etc, so this isn't practical to ban them but there should be some sort of ban on older ICE cars especially Diesels without this Particulate Filter.

What would be ideal is to ban people who live in town and city from driving into them, may seem unfair but if they have a public transport option and others don't ?

Or provide a proper public transport system.

We do need to provide a lot more pedestrian areas , and cycle lanes dedicated only to cycling. There are so many tiny lanes in our towns and cities that can be designated solely to cyclists.

shietpilot · 29-04-2016 10:15AM

Ah yes, modern society where the solution to every problem is to just ban the cause. Good job

Long Time Lurker · 29-04-2016 10:20AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are plenty of people who come from outside of town or city to work etc, so this isn't practical to ban them but there should be some sort of ban on older ICE cars especially Diesels without this Particulate Filter.

What would be ideal is to ban people who live in town and city from driving into them, may seem unfair but if they have a public transport option and others don't ?

Or provide a proper public transport system.

We do need to provide a lot more pedestrian areas , and cycle lanes dedicated only to cycling. There are so many tiny lanes in our towns and cities that can be designated solely to cyclists.

It wouldn't be my intention to ban cars from cities entirely, simply the very centre. There is nothing stopping someone from parking 500 metres away from where they need to get to, except maybe in the case of a person with a disability, in which case of course exception can be made. In fact in many cases people often do park well away from where they need to be. It sounds more frightening than it is.

But its as much about enjoying the space as it is about cleaning the air. They go hand in hand. There is no necessity to have any car drive down the centre of O'Connell Street on to D'Olier Street and up Dane Street for example ( I'm sure those in other towns/cities can identify the similar space) Pedestrianising Parnell square Christchurch would hinder nothing in Dublin despite what protesting dooms day merchants might say. It would encourage more people into those businesses if anything.

But yes the dirtiest should be eradicate first.

St. Leibowitz · 29-04-2016 11:27AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

I'd argue that private motor vehicles of any sort have no place in a city centre, town centre or local village environment.

Good luck with that. Most villages have a main street, which is the local roadconnecting villages. Your ideal scenario is building a bypass around every village in the country ?? Or else making detours of hundreds of miles because cars are banned from village environments ?? It's this sort of crazy thinking and stating of ideals which gets any sort of Green initiative a bad name, and has people thinking suspiciously about it right from the start.

shietpilot · 29-04-2016 11:58AM

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

Good luck with that. Most villages have a main street, which is the local roadconnecting villages. Your ideal scenario is building a bypass around every village in the country ?? Or else making detours of hundreds of miles because cars are banned from village environments ?? It's this sort of crazy thinking and stating of ideals which gets any sort of Green initiative a bad name, and has people thinking suspiciously about it right from the start.

Like I said, banning everything won't solve anything. People walking on brick pathways destroys them over them. Should we ban walking too? Oh I know, ban walking for people with big feet (or small feet as the pressure isn't spread over many bricks)

Long Time Lurker · 29-04-2016 01:43PM

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

Good luck with that. Most villages have a main street, which is the local roadconnecting villages. Your ideal scenario is building a bypass around every village in the country ?? Or else making detours of hundreds of miles because cars are banned from village environments ?? It's this sort of crazy thinking and stating of ideals which gets any sort of Green initiative a bad name, and has people thinking suspiciously about it right from the start.

Ideological we differ. "Crazy" seems a little judgemental. It's what you're used to and to change that can be hard to see. What's worse, by-passing ever town or sending traffic into the middle of it to get stuck and pass people at 30 mph! Really what's worse?

Long Time Lurker · 29-04-2016 01:46PM

shietpilot wrote: »

Like I said, banning everything won't solve anything. People walking on brick pathways destroys them over them. Should we ban walking too? Oh I know, ban walking for people with big feet (or small feet as the pressure isn't spread over many bricks)

I think, no I know you've missed my point. I'm arguing for removing motorised vehicles from places with large amounts of pederians and likely build up of pollution. Wearing paths out. Lol :-)

St. Leibowitz · 29-04-2016 02:03PM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Ideological we differ. "Crazy" seems a little judgemental. It's what you're used to and to change that can be hard to see. What's worse, by-passing ever town or sending traffic into the middle of it to get stuck and pass people at 30 mph! Really what's worse?

You'd probably be surprised at how ideologically similar we are. And I have no issue with change. I embrace and encourage change in my work life every day. However, I stand by "crazy". The concept you propose whereby every local village, many of them a group of eight or ten houses, a pub if they're lucky and maybe a shop with a local road running through them would have cars banned from them is in my opinion crazy. It would result either in a bypass building frenzy or else a navigational nightmare. Crazy. And the type of proposal which gets all green initiatives viewed with suspicion.

Long Time Lurker · 29-04-2016 02:08PM

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

You'd probably be surprised at how ideologically similar we are. And I have no issue with change. I embrace and encourage change in my work life every day. However, I stand by "crazy". The concept you propose whereby every local village, many of them a group of eight or ten houses, a pub if they're lucky and maybe a shop with a local road running through them would have cars banned from them is in my opinion crazy. It would result either in a bypass building frenzy or else a navigational nightmare. Crazy. And the type of proposal which gets all green initiatives viewed with suspicion.

That's fair enough I suppose. I probably really didn't have an 8-10 house village in mind when I said that but I should have elaborated a bit more. In a Dublin context I'm talking about the like of a Lucan or a Swords. Its chaotic and archaic really that we shovel all the traffic through those places for most part just to get stuck. It would probably - in real terms - actually be quicker to walk at peak times.

St. Leibowitz · 29-04-2016 02:10PM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

That's fair enough I suppose. I probably really didn't have an 8-10 house village in mind when I said that but I should have elaborated a bit more. In a Dublin context I'm talking about the like of a Lucan or a Swords. Its chaotic and archaic really that we shovel all the traffic through those places for most part just to get stuck. It would probably - in real terms - actually be quicker to walk at peak times.

OK. I get you. Swords. Jebus. I agree. Misunderstanding sorted. Sorry about that.

29-04-2016 03:04PM

Definitely , I'm in favour of creating pedestrian areas in all decent sized towns and cities.

And also creating cycle areas only. There are plenty of crappy lanes cars shouldn't be driving down anyway. It seems pretty ridiculous that a car be allowed to drive everywhere these days.

CiniO · 29-04-2016 04:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Diesel cars without the Particulate filter are already banned from driving in Stuttgart, it's one of the worst cities in Germany for air pollution at certain times.

My partners Dad's caddy would not be allowed into Stuttgart without the particulate filter and the green sticker on the windscreen.

Where did you hear about it?
How do they verify if car has a DPF filter on entry to Stuttgart?

I know there are environmental zones in most German cities, and you can only enter them with green sticker, but there is no requirement for DPF filter to obtain green sticker.

I don't believe Stuttgart is any different.

29-04-2016 04:37PM

her Parents told me it has the green sticker because it has the Particulate filter and without they can;t drive into Stuttgart. Funny enough, any time I'm there I notice the green stickers.

Her Mother is over the last few weeks and I asked her and she confirmed, so I don't know. I would have thought they would know, I do remember her Dad telling me also.

CiniO · 29-04-2016 05:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

her Parents told me it has the green sticker because it has the Particulate filter and without they can;t drive into Stuttgart. Funny enough, any time I'm there I notice the green stickers.

Her Mother is over the last few weeks and I asked her and she confirmed, so I don't know. I would have thought they would know, I do remember her Dad telling me also.

Most bigger German cities have environmental zones where entry is allowed only with a green sticker (umweltzone). Stuttgart is no different and the same rules apply.

Diesel vehicles first registered from 2006, and petrol vehicles first registered from 1993 are allowed to get a sticker, and it costs around €5.

So any diesel vehicle first registered from 2006 can get a sticker, no matter if it has DPF filter or not.

I have 2009 Civic diesel (no DPF), and I got a sticker no problem.

shietpilot · 30-04-2016 12:46PM

CiniO wrote: »

Most bigger German cities have environmental zones where entry is allowed only with a green sticker (umweltzone). Stuttgart is no different and the same rules apply.

Diesel vehicles first registered from 2006, and petrol vehicles first registered from 1993 are allowed to get a sticker, and it costs around €5.

So any diesel vehicle first registered from 2006 can get a sticker, no matter if it has DPF filter or not.

I have 2009 Civic diesel (no DPF), and I got a sticker no problem.

I think the stickers specify the Euro emission level for the car. Green being group 4 means the car has a Euro 4 or above level.

If the car isn't Euro 4 you can make it get a Euro 4 sticker by adding an aftermarket DPF to a Euro 3 car (you can only bump it up by 1 level for diesels)

CiniO · 30-04-2016 05:15PM

shietpilot wrote: »

I think the stickers specify the Euro emission level for the car. Green being group 4 means the car has a Euro 4 or above level.

If the car isn't Euro 4 you can make it get a Euro 4 sticker by adding an aftermarket DPF to a Euro 3 car (you can only bump it up by 1 level for diesels)

I think that's correct.

But vehicle fulfilling euro 4 norm, doesn't necesserily need to have a DPF filter.

According to wikipedia, Euro4 was obligatory from Jan 2005, and Euro 5 from Sept 2009.

My car was first registered Sept 2009, so it's Euro5, but it still doesn't have a DPF.
Even though there was no problem at all to get green sticker.

BorneTobyWilde · 01-05-2016 06:40PM

Large cities should have huge car parks miles from city where people can park. And in these car parks there should be same amount of electric cars as spaces. You park and rent electric for the cost of parking. So much per hour.You can then enter the city.

01-05-2016 06:44PM

Grand idea if there were a possible way into Irish towns and cities that didn't involve diesel buses.

gctest50 · 01-05-2016 06:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Grand idea if there were a possible way into Irish towns and cities that didn't involve diesel buses.

much easier make a bus cleaner - more room on it for tanks :

it should be a lot quieter running

simpler to work on, less ~ 40% maintenance costs

01-05-2016 09:47PM

Just do what China do, make electric buses. Then at certain stops it charges at something like 300 Kw. Great idea.

Diesel's days are numbered.

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