Water Bill.

kneemos · 28-04-2016 7:18am #1

Do I pay my latest water bill or demand my money back.
Why can't we do anything right .com

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:21am

You have to pay it, it's the law. Not paying your water bill would be illegal and morally repugnant and simply not cricket and offensive to wannabe respectable Fine Gael suckholes up and down the land.

_Kaiser_ · 28-04-2016 7:22am

Given the news reports that IW is to be suspended and probably scrapped down the line, and questions about refunds - whether they'll be issued at all, and if so when? - regardless of whether you agree with the notion of paying for it separately or not, you'd be mad to give them any (more) money at this stage.

Anyone with direct debits should probably cancel them too until this mess is sorted out IMO

Alf Stewart. · 28-04-2016 7:27am

Paying, or not paying is entirely down to individual choice imo. (I chose to ignore Irish water for entirely personal, and individual reasons) however, this whole debacle is the most shining example of ineptitude from a govt ever.

Er.... Those that paid won't be refunded, those that didn't pay will be chased for the money they didn't pay.

Yet in the legislation they legislated, the only means open for chasing non payers was when the bill surpassed €500.

Yet they capped charges at €260 max, then suspended them.

Fcukin faucets circus.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:31am

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Paying, or not paying is entirely down to individual choice imo. (I chose to ignore Irish water for entirely personal, and individual reasons) however, this whole debacle is the most shining example of ineptitude from a govt ever.

Er.... Those that paid won't be refunded, those that didn't pay will be chased for the money they didn't pay.

Yet in the legislation they legislated, the only means open for chasing non payers was when the bill surpassed €500.

Yet they capped charges at €260 max, then suspended them.

Fcukin faucets circus.

Even if the chasing vs. capping situation were not thus, they haven't a hope in Hell of cajoling money out of people who don't want to pay at this stage. Not a whelk's chance in a supoernova. Not happening, chief! :pac:

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:32am

Oh "I love power" Seems to lost the plot today. Threats, Environmental Treason.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:34am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Oh "I love power" Seems to lost the plot today. Threats, Environmental Treason.

There are fewer narkier animals than a Labour minister for the environment that's had his snout suddenly yanked out of the trough.

jeamimus · 28-04-2016 7:38am

Don't pay now. FF have created an unholy mess that will take years to sort out, if ever. Meanwhile the long suffering taxpayer, not the actual user, will have to pay for this cock up.

smash · 28-04-2016 7:39am

What you do is apply for your water conservation grant, get €100 and then never pay your bill

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:40am

jeamimus wrote: »

Don't pay now. FF have created an unholy mess that will take years to sort out, if ever. Meanwhile the long suffering taxpayer, not the actual user, will have to pay for this cock up.

Who does not pay tax ?

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:40am

smash wrote: »

What you do is apply for your water conservation grant, get €100 and then never pay your bill

That would involve communicating with Billigi Waterahooraha na hEireann and therefore acknowledging that they exist.

smash · 28-04-2016 7:45am

jimgoose wrote: »

That would involve communicating with Billigi Waterahooraha na hEireann and therefore acknowledging that they exist.

But under legislation they can't take you to court because the debt is under €500.

Redbishop · 28-04-2016 7:45am

Just for consideration!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%C3%A1il-set-to-support-fine-gael-for-three-budgets-1.2627057

Alf Stewart. · 28-04-2016 7:48am

jeamimus wrote: »

Don't pay now. FF have created an unholy mess that will take years to sort out, if ever. Meanwhile the long suffering taxpayer, not the actual user, will have to pay for this cock up.

Fergus O'Dowd disagrees with this.

A FORMER minister who helped establish Irish Water has criticised the company’s approach to introducing water charges, describing it as “an unmitigated disaster”.

Ex-junior environment minister Fergus O’Dowd, who developed the legislation which set up the utility, said it had “abjectly failed” in selling its message to consumers.

That'd be Fergus of Fine Gael by the way.

jeamimus · 28-04-2016 7:48am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who does not pay tax ?

Water tax protestors.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:49am

smash wrote: »

But under legislation they can't take you to court because the debt is under €500.

Didn't they pencil themselves power to garnishee wages/SW at source, or something like that, regardless of the amount? Or did I misapprehend?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:49am

jeamimus wrote: »

Water tax protestors.

Oh, When was Revenue collecting Water charges ?

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:49am

jeamimus wrote: »

Water tax protestors.

Yes, in fact I do. A horrific amount.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:50am

Redbishop wrote: »

Just for consideration!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%C3%A1il-set-to-support-fine-gael-for-three-budgets-1.2627057

That's cool but our bills are not €500

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:51am

jimgoose wrote: »

Didn't they pencil themselves power to garnishee wages/SW at source, or something like that, regardless of the amount? Or did I misapprehend?

legislation is for €500 and up.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:52am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

legislation is for €500 and up.

Oh. Well, they can definitely go and sing for it!

stoneill · 28-04-2016 7:52am

jeamimus wrote: »

Water tax protestors.

After the recent Panama Papers leak you probably find its rich and powerful people who don't pay tax.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 7:53am

stoneill wrote: »

After the recent Panama Papers leak you probably find its rich and powerful people who don't pay tax.

No, I do. I told you!

OfflerCrocGod · 28-04-2016 7:56am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who does not pay tax ?

The middle class will now subsidize people who waste water through reduced after tax income. The only way for you to pay less for water and sewage treatment is to earn less, the cost bears no relation to your usage. How anyone can claim that situation is rational or "fair" is beyond me.

JaMarcusHustle · 28-04-2016 7:58am

kneemos wrote:

Do I pay my latest water bill or demand my money back. Why can't we do anything right .com

Instead of thinking of it as a lost water charge, think of it as a fine for being the type of person who puts ".com" at the end of sentences.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 7:59am

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

The middle class will now subsidize people who waste water through reduced after tax income. The only way for you to pay less for water and sewage treatment is to earn less, the cost bears no relation to your usage. How anyone can claim that situation is rational or "fair" is beyond me.

So, That's a no to not paying tax. You a link to these wasting water ? we use half of what they thought. Almost like people are making stuff up.

kenmc · 28-04-2016 7:59am

think I'd rather pay water bill than see that gobsh1te Edna as teeshock a day longer. probably cost less in the long run.

smash · 28-04-2016 8:02am

jimgoose wrote: »

Didn't they pencil themselves power to garnishee wages/SW at source, or something like that, regardless of the amount? Or did I misapprehend?

Nope. They can't do shit.

_Kaiser_ · 28-04-2016 8:03am

kenmc wrote: »

think I'd rather pay water bill than see that gobsh1te Edna as teeshock a day longer. probably cost less in the long run.

Don't worry... Enda is only going to be Taoiseach as long as it suits Martin and FF, and he'll be pushed out soon enough by another leadership challenge from Leo/Coveney etc

That's even better IMO - so incompetent and arrogant that he managed to make FF electable again.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 8:03am

smash wrote: »

Nope. They can't do shit.

They can when your bill gets to €500 and then apply to the courts for an attachment. But not before €500.

Ush1 · 28-04-2016 8:04am

Absolute joke.

I now have to listen to my lefty numpty mate about how wrong I was to pay and it serves me right.

kenmc · 28-04-2016 8:06am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Don't worry... Enda is only going to be Taoiseach as long as it suits Martin and FF, and he'll be pushed out soon enough by another leadership challenge from Leo/Coveney etc

That's even better IMO - so incompetent and arrogant that he managed to make FF electable again.

that's still at least one day too long

_Kaiser_ · 28-04-2016 8:07am

Ush1 wrote: »

Absolute joke.

I now have to listen to my lefty numpty mate about how wrong I was to pay and it serves me right.

Well to be fair, IW was never simply the utility they wanted us to believe it was - it's been a political football that's been dogged by controversy and U-turns throughout.

I'd say most people who haven't paid aren't doing so because they were waiting to see how it'd all turn out. It's been known before Christmas that it was likely to fall as a result of the probable election outcome

_Kaiser_ · 28-04-2016 8:09am

kenmc wrote: »

that's still at least one day too long

Yeah but think about how sick it must make him. Rather than being gloriously swept back to power as the only FG Taoiseach in history to get a second/consecutive term (which was his goal all along), he's now only there until it suits FF to pull the plug/one of his colleagues replaces him as leader.

Kenny will go down as one of the worst "leaders" we've had yet IMO

smash · 28-04-2016 8:10am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

They can when your bill gets to €500 and then apply to the courts for an attachment. But not before €500.

In how many years time?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 8:12am

smash wrote: »

In how many years time?

Well none if they stop charges this week for example. I cant seem them allowing a none company to continue to lump on fines after the charges are dropped. So in that case the amount will never reach the €500 mark they need to trigger the use of the legislation.

Seth Brundle · 28-04-2016 8:13am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well to be fair, IW was never simply the utility they wanted us to believe it was - it's been a political football that's been dogged by controversy and U-turns throughout.

To be fair, IW has not done much wrong and if it is removed and we're forced back into something like the old system, it will cost a lot more in the long run.
But yes, it's implementation from a political perspective has been an unmitigated disaster.

Ush1 · 28-04-2016 8:13am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well to be fair, IW was never simply the utility they wanted us to believe it was - it's been a political football that's been dogged by controversy and U-turns throughout.

I'd say most people who haven't paid aren't doing so because they were waiting to see how it'd all turn out. It's been known before Christmas that it was likely to fall as a result of the probable election outcome

Well from what I understand there is an independant commision which will make a call in 9 months, so it's not gone yet. Did the IMF not mandate the introduction of water charges?

smash · 28-04-2016 8:14am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well none if they stop charges this week for example. I cant seem them allowing a none company to continue to lump on fines after the charges are dropped. So in that case the amount will never reach the €500 mark they need to trigger the use of the legislation.

Exactly.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 8:14am

kbannon wrote: »

To be fair, IW has not done much wrong and if it is removed and we're forced back into something like the old system, it will cost a lot more in the long run.
But yes, it's implementation from a political perspective has been an unmitigated disaster.

How will it cost more ?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2016 8:15am

Ush1 wrote: »

Well from what I understand there is an independant commision which will make a call in 9 months, so it's not gone yet. Did the IMF not mandate the introduction of water charges?

We are not under the IMF or Troika for years now.

Merrion · 28-04-2016 8:16am

I think non-payment of any bill can be put on your credit score even if it doesn't go to court so I'd suggest you do pay if you are looking to get any credit in the next year or so?

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 8:17am

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

The middle class will now subsidize people who waste water through reduced after tax income. The only way for you to pay less for water and sewage treatment is to earn less, the cost bears no relation to your usage. How anyone can claim that situation is rational or "fair" is beyond me.

So the filthy, unwashed, working-class oiks are deliberately pissing away water at a terrifying rate while cackling maniacally, are they? I think you'll find nearly half of it is being pissed away by crumbling Victorian infrastructure before anyone ever sees a drop, oik or otherwise.

dodzy · 28-04-2016 8:18am

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Paying, or not paying is entirely down to individual choice imo. (I chose to ignore Irish water for entirely personal, and individual reasons) however, this whole debacle is the most shining example of ineptitude from a govt ever.

Er.... Those that paid won't be refunded, those that didn't pay will be chased for the money they didn't pay.

Yet in the legislation they legislated, the only means open for chasing non payers was when the bill surpassed €500.

Yet they capped charges at €260 max, then suspended them.

Fcukin faucets circus.

smash · 28-04-2016 8:18am

Merrion wrote: »

I think non-payment of any bill can be put on your credit score even if it doesn't go to court so I'd suggest you do pay if you are looking to get any credit in the next year or so?

If you never registered with IW then they can not ever give you a mark against a credit score.

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 8:18am

Ush1 wrote: »

Absolute joke.

I now have to listen to my lefty numpty mate about how wrong I was to pay and it serves me right.

Your righty numpty mate here reckons he has a point! :pac:

jimgoose · 28-04-2016 8:19am

Merrion wrote: »

I think non-payment of any bill can be put on your credit score even if it doesn't go to court so I'd suggest you do pay if you are looking to get any credit in the next year or so?

IW is not a member of the Irish Credit Bureau and utility companies in general have no bearing on credit scoring in Ireland. The ICB clarified this in 2014.

Mr Freeze · 28-04-2016 8:20am

Wait till they ask people to give the 100 euro grant back?

That will be fun.

28-04-2016 8:21am

smash wrote: »

But under legislation they can't take you to court because the debt is under €500.

We had this discussion on another thread and were confused as to when the fines kicked in. Is it €60 per year per bill - ie €60 x 4 or just one €60 per 12 month period. If people haven't registered or engaged with IW and the extra charge is per bill per year, they'd hit the €500 in less than a year.

I am a supporter of the idea of water charges, so must warn people to keep in mind that the money will have to come from another source. In this case it appears to be the USC, meaning that the hard pressed middle income worker pays for all - again.

Alf Stewart. · 28-04-2016 8:22am

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

The middle class will now subsidize people who waste water through reduced after tax income. The only way for you to pay less for water and sewage treatment is to earn less, the cost bears no relation to your usage. How anyone can claim that situation is rational or "fair" is beyond me.

It was recently shown that on avg, we use 80L water, revised down from 150L originally estimated (or plucked from ones backside) so we don't waste water at all, at all.

As for the middle class subsidising anyone else, even if water charges had gone through, thems the plans Enda had in store (generous allowances, and state aid for those unable to play)

Seth Brundle · 28-04-2016 8:24am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How will it cost more ?

How will having multiple agencies (that are already short on finances) oversee and maintain our potable and waste water systems rather than one entity?
Really?

Water Bill.

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