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6 years living together, one child and he still won't divorce his wife!

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  • 26-04-2016 11:04pm
    #1
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭


    I'm at my wits end. My partner won't divorce his wife, citing that he'll 'lose his marriage tax allowance'. Before I moved in, he promised me that was one of the first things he'd do, divorce. He'd been separated 5 years then (now 11 years), they had a separation agreement then. So I went ahead and we had another child together. We both had previous children too.

    I'm so sick of this. His wife lives around the corner. She's been quite bitchy to me and that has also affected how her kids are with me, despite having them every weekend and one full time.

    It's DPs house. I am a stay at home mum and feel utterly vulnerable in this position. Any advice?
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    #2
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    P.s. I am not the other woman! His wife had a long term boyfriend before I even met my partner.


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    #3
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Sorry to hear about it, and i can only give advice on one limited point:

    What hes saying about married persons tax credits sounds suspicious. The married credits basically allow a couple to pool their credits, so only makes sense if she gives him her credits to use against his tax.

    If shes got her own stuff going on, presumably she wants her own credits. Likewise, he shouldnt be claiming them if theyre not part of a bona fides marriage (morally, I mean).

    If he divorced her and married you, as youre not employed at the moment he could get your credits.

    Maybe send him to a financial adviser to see if its a simple misunderstanding of tax law that is the difficulty.

    I suspect, however, there may be more to it and you might need to have a more involved conversation with him. Other people might give you better advice on that front though.


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    #4
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    You cant force him to divorce. Or even if he does eventually get a divorce, to marry you, if that's what you want. It sounds very much like he could not care less what you want.

    He's broken that promise, and fobbed you off so maybe now its time to think about what you want. It looks like your choices are to either accept he will never divorce and stay with him, or leave. What is your gut telling you?


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    #5
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Claiming married tax credits when separated is basically fraud and he could get into lots of trouble!

    Why do you want him to divorce her? Shes still going to be the same person and still cause the same problems. Is it because you want to marry him yourself? And if so does he know this?
    That could be the root of it, while he's still married to her you can't put him under pressure for a proposal!

    It sounds like you need to get to the root of why he is reluctant....and its not tax credits.


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    #6
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    Thanks for your replies. He only told me this was the reason yesterday.

    You know, I never actually clocked, yes of course it's actually a big lie to be telling the Inland Revenue. What the hell is he doing?

    This frightens me even more. He's just much more wobbly than I thought.

    I've explained several times to him why I want him to divorce. Originally, we both agreed that we would want to marry each other, and that was the main reason.

    However, I just want him to take that first step so that I don't feel like a second class girlfriend. I want to have a future where I don't have to worry about pensions being shared with his wife, I want to be able to at least be equal. In the eyes of the law she would still be his next of kin. All these things matter.

    Not very hopeful tbh.


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    #7
    tcif
    Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭tcif


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    Originally, we both agreed that we would want to marry each other, and that was the main reason.

    When you talk with him about divorcing her is a marriage for you two always hanging over that conversation as the logical next step? Do you think he could have gotten cold feet about getting remarried (even if he's fully committed to you) and feels he can avoid that situation by not getting divorced and therefore remaining unavailable in that sense?

    I completely understand where you're coming from in wanting him to be divorced, to not be sharing your life and raising your child and planning your future with a man who's still technically someone else's husband. I hope you can get him to see that.


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    #8
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    Thanks for your replies. He only told me this was the reason yesterday.

    You know, I never actually clocked, yes of course it's actually a big lie to be telling the Inland Revenue. What the hell is he doing?

    This frightens me even more. He's just much more wobbly than I thought.

    Here is Revenue's page on that. He could be landing him and her in some pretty hot water. Or, he could have just said it to you as an excuse to get you off his back about divorcing and in reality they've notified Revenue years ago. If its the former, he's an idiot. If its the latter, he's a dick. Neither sounds like a keeper tbh.
    wrote:
    I've explained several times to him why I want him to divorce. Originally, we both agreed that we would want to marry each other, and that was the main reason. However, I just want him to take that first step so that I don't feel like a second class girlfriend.

    Could it be he's using the not-divorcing as a way of avoiding a marriage with you? As long as he is still married, he doesn't have to make good on his promise to marry you.
    wrote:
    I want to have a future where I don't have to worry about pensions being shared with his wife, I want to be able to at least be equal. In the eyes of the law she would still be his next of kin. All these things matter.

    Not very hopeful tbh.

    Considering you have a child with him, that's a very reasonable thing to want. He may not realise though that his ex still has NOK rights though. Do they get on? If there is a less than amicable relationship between them then telling him that might get him thinking.

    Either way, I think that's becoming a sideline issue now for you, the scales are falling from your eyes a bit. It's not the right way you treat your partner and not respectful. Even if he started divorce proceedings tomorrow and planned a wedding for you, I think there is a possibility you'd always remember how long he fobbed you off and it might have the goodness taken out of it for you.

    Maybe ask yourself what you want to do here. Decide which one you'd pick if your choices are between a) stay put as you are, him married to her, and you both never marry- that you write off that idea forever or;
    b) leave and be single yourself and maybe down the line meet someone who does want to commit to you.


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    #9
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    But he is still married, so can be jointly assessed with his ex if they both agree.

    OP, I presume your income is greater than his ex's?
    I can see where he's coming from.
    It's not romantic, but extra rate band and credits are worth thousands a year.


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    #10
    tcif
    Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭tcif


    Tax credits can be valuable but...

    If the OP's partners wife is working full time she'll be using all the credits herself, so no value to him.

    If she's part-time/unemployed she has credits he could gain financially from but I imagine at her cost because if they're still one entity in the eyes of the Revenue wouldn't that diminish her ability to claim social welfare or other benefits available to her as a single mother? (The OP mentioned they both had previous children).

    Also the OP mentioned her partner said he a separation agreement with his wife when she met him. Can you legally declare yourselves separated in all other respects yet still tell the Revenue 11 years later you're still together for tax purposes?

    I'm sure he has his reasons but I can't make any sense of tax credits being one of them.


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    #11
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    Thanks for all your replies.

    I am totally confused about the tax credits and divorce, I read a bit last night and it said that they could choose even if separated, as long as it wasn't permanent. It is permanent! His wife is working but part time. He has an accountant who I presume he checks these things out with. It doesn't feel right to me.

    Originally, divorce was part of then the next step being marriage. But I've told him clearly, and he me, that we need a lot of counseling and thinking through marriage. I've told him I'm not ready to marry him yet.

    I will not stay with him as it stands. We could have made a great couple, have much in common, but he's just dragged his heels from the time I've moved in. We planned our baby, who has severe special needs, so I feel left high and dry. It's true if he asked me to marry him tomorrow there would still be that anger in me about having to be left dangling for so long.


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    #12
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    P.s. I have no income, I'm a stay at home mum as our child has severe special needs and I'm unable to work at present. He cannot go into childcare.


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    #13
    tcif
    Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭tcif


    I'm really sorry it's come to this for you, OP. You have some rights legally (I don't know too much about them but this may be a place to start http://www.treoir.ie/target-co-habiting.php) and should look into these before packing a single bag.


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    #14
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    P.s. I have no income, I'm a stay at home mum as our child has severe special needs and I'm unable to work at present. He cannot go into childcare.

    Then he could divorce, marry you, and have your unused credits and rate band???


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    #15
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    P.s. I have no income, I'm a stay at home mum as our child has severe special needs and I'm unable to work at present. He cannot go into childcare.

    Why aren't you in receipt of Children's Allowance and any personal SW allowances you seem like you might be entitled to?


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    #16
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    I think our relationship should be worth more than tax credits. He's going to pay for this later as he's just taken out a pension, which I presume is now half hers.

    I dont think I have any cohabitation rights, as his wife would trump these.


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    #17
    tcif
    Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭tcif


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    I dont think I have any cohabitation rights, as his wife would trump these.

    Don't be so sure about that:

    "The Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 came into effect on 1st January 2011. This Act introduced rights and obligations for qualified cohabitants under the Redress Scheme.

    A qualified cohabitant is an adult who has been cohabiting for at least 5 years or 2 years if you have a child with your partner, and
    are financially dependent on the other cohabitant.

    Where one of the cohabitants is still married, neither of the cohabitants will be considered a qualified cohabitant unless the married cohabitant has lived apart from his/her spouse for at least 4 of the previous 5 years."

    He meets that lived apart criteria. Plus you two are together more than 6 years and have a child, moreover one with special needs. He can't shrug that off and you need to make sure he shoulders his responsibilities fairly.


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    #18
    mrs vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mrs vimes


    double post


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    #19
    mrs vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mrs vimes


    Hi OP,

    On the question of tax credits and being jointly taxed with his ex, if you read the link Neyite linked to you'll see that even if they are divorced then they can still elect to be treated as a married couple
    A divorced couple also has the option of electing to be treated as a married couple for income tax purposes if:

    maintenance payments by one to the other are legally enforceable,
    they are both resident in the State, and,
    neither spouse has re-married or entered a civil partnership.

    On the pension question, divorces are not final. I've heard of cases where even after a spouse has remarried the previous spouse has been able to take further court action looking for what the lawyers call "a second bite of the cherry".

    For your own sake you need to find a way to discuss your future with or without your partner and come to an agreement that you are happy with.

    For me the biggest problem would be the Next of Kin issue.


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    #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Maybe he has assets that he's trying to protect.
    Do you know anything about the separation agreement? Why is she not looking for a divorce herself? Is he still contributing financially? She might be happy enough with whatever financial arrangements are in place so no need for her to rock the boat. I don't think he is disclosing everything to you. Keeping secrets in a relationship is not good especially when you have a child together and you are dependent on him financially. You seem to be in a vulnerable position.


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    #21
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    mrs vimes wrote: »
    On the pension question, divorces are not final. I've heard of cases where even after a spouse has remarried the previous spouse has been able to take further court action looking for what the lawyers call "a second bite of the cherry".

    This isn't true. Once assets (including pensions) are disposed of/adjusted as part of the divorce proceedings, that's it, there's no deciding a few years down the line that you could have done a bit better and taking a second run at them. The only financials that can be increased (or decreased) are maintenance and child support orders.

    I signed away my rights to my husband's (very lucrative) army pension as part of our divorce proceedings. I can't decide in a few years time "Actually that was a really bad idea" and go looking to regain my entitlement to it.


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    #22
    mrs vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mrs vimes


    Hi Dial Hard,

    if you do change your mind, you could get on to these solicitors, they seem to think otherwise. As does this article, although the source must of course be considered.

    I'm not in any way suggesting you would succeed, just that it may be possible in certain circumstances.

    As I said above though, the next of kin issue is probably the most serious in normal situations.


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    #23
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    guest_xyz wrote: »
    Maybe he has assets that he's trying to protect.
    Do you know anything about the separation agreement? Why is she not looking for a divorce herself? Is he still contributing financially? She might be happy enough with whatever financial arrangements are in place so no need for her to rock the boat. I don't think he is disclosing everything to you. Keeping secrets in a relationship is not good especially when you have a child together and you are dependent on him financially. You seem to be in a vulnerable position.

    She did apparently ask for a divorce 2 years ago, but wasn't that fussed about whether it happened or not. He's still contributing financially, and bought her a house which is in her name. Which is one of the reasons he is stressed, he mortgaged up to the hilt to do that, and now has very little spare income.


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    #24
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    This isn't true. Once assets (including pensions) are disposed of/adjusted as part of the divorce proceedings, that's it, there's no deciding a few years down the line that you could have done a bit better and taking a second run at them. The only financials that can be increased (or decreased) are maintenance and child support orders.

    I signed away my rights to my husband's (very lucrative) army pension as part of our divorce proceedings. I can't decide in a few years time "Actually that was a really bad idea" and go looking to regain my entitlement to it.

    I did hope that we could have a clean slate financially. With his Ex able to claim his pension at any point would be a little more than I could bear. And she would, she's very entitled. She has a big house, all in her name, mortgage free, very generous maintenance and yet we had majority residential care of the girls up until last year.


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    #25
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    Claiming married tax credits when separated is basically fraud and he could get into lots of trouble!

    No it isn't. It is perfectly legal in many cases.


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    #26
    CorkSinead
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭CorkSinead


    tcif wrote: »
    Don't be so sure about that:
    "Where one of the cohabitants is still married, neither of the cohabitants will be considered a qualified cohabitant unless the married cohabitant has lived apart from his/her spouse for at least 4 of the previous 5 years."

    He meets that lived apart criteria. Plus you two are together more than 6 years and have a child, moreover one with special needs. He can't shrug that off and you need to make sure he shoulders his responsibilities fairly.

    I had assumed that I had no rights, but this may give me some. However, he has no assets or equity in the house at present, it has just broken even after being in negative equity. He had remortgaged to buy his wife a house, in her name. It's a bit galling to feel that I contributed (financially) when I was working and now by looking after a child, and yet this is in no way my home. My partner keeps making it clear he is the one on the mortgage. For a man who likes to see himself as fair it has made me angry that he isn't treating me equally.

    I feel like I am paying the price for being taken to the cleaners by his wife.


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    #27
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    No it isn't. It is perfectly legal in many cases.

    Is it legal when he's living with, and has a child with someone else? Doesn't a civil partnership start after 2 years when there's a child involved?
    Im genuinely confused how he could claim tax credits with one woman while living with another.

    Op, it sounds incredibly frustrating. Whatever his real reasons are it's not fair on you. Unfortunately if he's not willing to divorce her there isn't much you can do- that's the gamble you take when starting a relationship with someone who is still in a legal relationship with another woman.

    You said money is an issue? Maybe he can't afford a divorce?


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    #28
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    So are your kids living with ye? Is he funding two families so?


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    #29
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    My parents have been separated since the late 90s. 16-17 years later, they still aren't divorced and they never will. I don't know who's refusing who but it'll never happen. They both had relationships during that time.

    I'm not sure what I'm trying to say but some people never get divorced.


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    #30
    Lavinia
    Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    I feel like I am paying the price for being taken to the cleaners by his wife.
    It is never because of "his wife".
    It is between the two of you, and more so, it is because of him and his stand.

    Can his decisions be influenced by children from that marriage also?

    Btw I am really sorry for situation you found yourself in. It must be very difficult...
    I know it is so too late to say this but ya girls if he wants to divorce first let him do before you commit yourself to more...
    In your original post you said you even had a child with him, has your decision to have a child been motivated also so to make your connection stronger? I mean have you not been sure in him before that so though it would make a difference? I am sorry really but it crossed my mind, please pardon me if that is not the case...


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    #31
    Roselm
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Roselm


    CorkSinead wrote: »
    It's a bit galling to feel that I contributed (financially) when I was working and now by looking after a child, and yet this is in no way my home. My partner keeps making it clear he is the one on the mortgage.

    I'm almost certain if you are cohabiting (the 2 years/5 years thing) you are entitled to a share in the house or at least to argue it. Something like if you can show you contributed to mortgage /repairs...?


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