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Snobbery in education.

1101113151621

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,172 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    LMGTFY

    5 according to Wikipedia


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    CramCycle wrote: »
    LMGTFY

    5 according to Wikipedia

    Where are they getting that figure from? The citation provided just links to a news article about a visiting professor who is a Nobel Laureate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Well, it could be the University of Wikipedia that's at fault.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    amen wrote: »
    What an interesting thread as it reveals a lot about the Irish mind set.

    I have a STEM degree from one of the newer Irish Universities (DCU) and I have worked in Industry for over 20 years in a field somewhat related to my degree.

    In all that time I have worked with people from many different educational backgrounds and countries. In my experience the institution in which you completed your degree or even the grade of your degree has little or no bearing on how well you will succeed in your career.

    I have worked with many people from highly ranked Irish and International Institutions and in general I find those that did well* in the Leaving Cert ( or their Nations similar exams) perform best irrespective of where they attended University/College or what their final grade was.

    As for STEM vs Arts Degrees I can only speak from experience but I think both are equally hard but STEM can force a more rigorous approach to data analysis and decision making. That said I have seem some bizarre decisions made by professionals.



    This to me is what is wrong with the education system in general. We are often very focused learning what we need ignoring other disciplines or we stop learning when we leave education.

    Its up to the individual to broaden their mind, to make learning a lifelong pursuit. I try and learn something new everyday, practice a skill, teach someone else how to do something (best way to know if you understand something).












    *top 20%

    I agree 100% and that's what I see everyday. Maybe it's exclusive to science but who you are rather than where you came from is more important.

    Self directed learning is invaluable. A graduate who wants to understand something and wants to apply what he/she has learn is going to go places.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Just to back up Eugene Norman regarding foreign students according to Scientific American over 50% of PhDs awarded in US institutions in STEM subjects go to citizens of foreign countries. The top American institutions get their reputation from their research. They get more than half of their research from graduates from other countries.

    Can the U.S. stave off the erosion of its longtime preeminence in science and
    engineering? For decades the nation's stature in those disciplines has attracted
    many of the brightest and most talented students from around the world to
    America's advanced degree programs. Citizens of other countries now receive more
    than half the Ph.D.s awarded by U.S. universities in engineering, computer
    science and physics, on top of earning one third of all college degrees in
    science and engineering. In certain subfields, the disparity is much higher: in
    electrical engineering, for example, foreign students received 65 percent of all
    doctoral diplomas in 2001.

    These figures should inspire alarm, not pride. The unpleasant truth is that the U.S. public education system simply does not produce enough high school graduates who are qualified for college work of any kind, let alone students with a vigorous appetite for math and the sciences. The full depth of America's educational failure is actually masked by the diversity of nationalities among grad students in those fields: Of the 1,777 physics doctorates awarded in 2011, for example, 743 went to temporary visa holders from many lands—and that figure excludes foreign nationals who had won permanent resident status. Only 15 of those 1,777 doctorates were earned by African-Americans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Shelga


    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

    The figure of 29 Irish includes 25 students and 4 scholars, across all schools and years of study, not just undergraduates, I think. But then it says there are over 9,000 international students in total, which seems far too high in a university population of ~20,000? :confused: Must be my pea-sized brain letting me down. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Shelga wrote: »
    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

    The figure of 29 Irish includes 25 students and 4 scholars, across all schools and years of study, not just undergraduates, I think. But then it says there are over 9,000 international students in total, which seems far too high in a university population of ~20,000? :confused: Must be my pea-sized brain letting me down. :pac:

    That's because you went to a backwater university with only a few Nobel laureates maybe :pac:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭gutenberg


    Shelga wrote: »
    http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

    The figure of 29 Irish includes 25 students and 4 scholars, across all schools and years of study, not just undergraduates, I think. But then it says there are over 9,000 international students in total, which seems far too high in a university population of ~20,000? :confused: Must be my pea-sized brain letting me down. :pac:

    Ah that makes more sense now :) Well when you consider that the undergraduate population at Harvard is quite small, and the bulk of students tend to be postgraduates/research students/students at the professional schools then the number of internationals becomes more explicable, as the 'postgrad' population is much more international than Harvard College.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Timetabled hours really don't mean anything. I did a 15-hour (class-time) a week degree and we had a huge amount of work to do outside of class hours. It's a different sort of course - lots of STEM courses need the scheduled lab hours for the practical components (because you need the lab facilities), whereas the "practical" learning in an Arts or Humanities subject can be done in the library and therefore didn't need to be scheduled as such. My course involved at least 20 hours working on my own each week, as well as 15 hours lectures which were really just to focus our attention on various areas that we had to study in depth in our own time. It's a different sort of challenging, maybe, but they can be equally tough.

    It depends on the STEM course. I did computer science, where self-motivated learning and project work done in your own time was a pre-requisite to successfully completing your degree. In other words, I had to do a large amount of timetabled hours and a lot of work in my own time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    It depends on the STEM course. I did computer science, where self-motivated learning and project work done in your own time was a pre-requisite to successfully completing your degree. In other words, I had to do a large amount of timetabled hours and a lot of work in my own time.

    Yea once again there's a confusion about science courses. A lot of self directed learning is required to do well.

    In UCD's science degree during the final year you do a lab project where under the guidance of a supervisor you undertake a project with a clear set of aims. Depending on the supervisor you could be very independent. During mine I was thrown in the deep end and told to design my own experiments and make up my own buffers and I even got experience with some of the biophysical techniques like NMR.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    And while we're on ITs a very well done to the great scientists at Sligo IT who have developed a technique which could radically reduce the amount of superbugs.



    Scientists based at Sligo IT have made what's being hailed as a major
    breakthrough in the fight against superbugs.



    They've developed a new technology which can be baked into everyday items,
    including smartphones, to combat the likes of MRSA and E. coli.


    They say it has a 99.9 % kill rate of potentially lethal and
    drug-resistant bacteria.


    Lead scientist Professor Suresh C. Pillai, of Sligo IT's Nanotechnology
    Research Group, says the discovery is the culmination of 12 years' work.


    "This is a game-changer," he said. "This breakthrough will change the whole
    fight against superbugs. It can effectively control the spread of bacteria."


    The findings are published today in the international journal 'Scientific
    Reports'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,087 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    And while we're on ITs a very well done to the great scientists at Sligo IT who have developed a technique which could radically reduce the amount of superbugs.

    Stories like this appear every day and mean about as much as Daily Mail headlines claiming that red wine cures/causes (delete as appropriate) Alzheimer's disease.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    To be fair dude a few different people are saying one thing I.e they have years in industry and you're saying another. I wasn't saying he was confused about science I was implying some posters such as yourself have little or no clue about what goes into a science degree or makes a good science graduate.

    I replied with science because the poster said he/she did a course in computer science. I was expanding self directed learning in computer science to the wet sciences.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Stories like this appear every day and mean about as much as Daily Mail headlines claiming that red wine cures/causes (delete as appropriate) Alzheimer's disease.

    I'll disagree and say headlines like that appear everyday rather than stories. If their results will be published soon we can make up our own mind.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,087 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I'll disagree and say headlines like that appear everyday rather than stories. If their results will be published soon we can make up our own mind.

    I'll wait for a successful set of clinical trials before I get excited.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Ah, fair play to them anyway, guess they're pretty excited to have a very promising sounding result!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'll wait for a successful set of clinical trials before I get excited.

    Why would we need clinical trials?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,087 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why would we need clinical trials?

    Well, trials at least.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why would we need clinical trials?

    Why?

    FOR SCIENCE!

    (Sorry, I just wanted an excuse for that)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Samaris wrote: »
    Why?

    FOR SCIENCE!

    (Sorry, I just wanted an excuse for that)

    If it's an experiment to determine whether something can halt or slow the spread of MRSA you don't need clinical trials to get excited. It sounds like a breakthrough in chemical engineering and nanotechnology.

    It does look promising though.

    From The Journal.ie with a little more about the science behind it:

    A DISCOVERY BY a team of scientists in Ireland could control the spread of
    deadly antibiotic-resistant superbugs which experts fear could kill 10 million
    people every year by 2050 – more than will die from cancer.

    A team of scientists, led by Professor Suresh C Pillai from IT Sligo, have
    made a breakthrough which will allow everyday items such as smartphones and door
    handles to be protected against deadly bacteria including MRSA
    and E coli.


    The group’s research was published today in the journal Scientific Reports.


    The nanotechnology has a 99.9% kill rate and uses an agent that kills
    microorganisms or inhibits their growth.

    Anything made from glass, metallics and ceramics can be protected, including
    computer or tablet screens, smartphones, ATMs, door handles, TVs, toilet seats
    and fridges.

    The researchers said it will be of particular use in hospitals and medical
    facilities.

    It could also be used in swimming pools, on public transport, and on sneeze
    guards protecting food in delis and restaurants, as well as in clean rooms in
    the medical sector.

    The discovery is the culmination of almost 12 years of research by a team of
    scientists led by Pillai, initially at the Centre for Research in Engineering
    Surface Technology in DIT and then at IT Sligo’s Nanotechnology Research
    Group.

    DCU, the University of Surrey and Kastus Technologies were also involved in
    the research.

    “It’s absolutely wonderful to finally be at this stage. This breakthrough
    will change the whole fight against superbugs. It can effectively control the
    spread of bacteria,” Pillai said.

    Every single person has a sea of bacteria on their hands. The mobile phone
    is the most contaminated personal item that we can have.


    “Bacteria grows on the phone and can live there for up to five months. As it
    is contaminated with proteins from saliva and from the hand, it’s fertile land
    for bacteria and has been shown to carry 30 times more bacteria than a toilet
    seat.”

    UV light


    As there is nothing that will effectively kill antibiotic-resistant superbugs
    completely from the surface of items, scientists have been searching for a way
    to prevent the spread.


    This has been in the form of building or ‘baking’ antimicrobial surfaces into
    products during the manufacturing process.


    However, until now these materials were toxic or needed UV light in order to
    make them work.

    “The challenge was the preparation of a solution that was activated by indoor light rather than UV light and we have now done that,” Pillai said.
    The new water-based solution can be sprayed onto any glass, ceramic or metallic surface during the production process, rendering the surface 99.9% resistant to superbugs like MRSA, E coli and other fungi.
    The solution is sprayed on the product — such as a smartphone glass surface — and then ‘baked’ into it, forming a surface that is transparent, permanent and scratch-resistant


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Hmmm I'll believe ya millions wouldn't


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It isn't what I believe. I do believe you but it's your debating style that makes it hard to hold a serious conversation. When someone disagrees with you you respond with little digs and denigration of other people e.g "backwater institution". There's no need for that when people disagree with you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Their standards cant be that high if they are letting in arts graduates from those creches they call colleges here.


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