How does ireland not have free healthcare?

Allinall wrote: »

Having to pay keeps the hypochondriacs at large, which can only be a good thing.

Is that you Mary?

Really, 1 in 2.......

This 'figure' I presume, includes children,the elderly, foreign nationals, those on disability, long term illness , chronic illness, terminal illness, mental illness...where exactly did U get that figure from.......Dr James Mengele Reilly perhaps?

Given Ur knowledge of all things 'statistically medical', U wouldn't happen to have a figure for the NUMBER of people on anti-depressants by any chance, would U? The Department and ex Minister ...even the present Acting Minister are being extraordinarily evasive about providing a figure.....

Tubbs

Thank YOU for sending an article over 3 years old....and that was before James 'the hames' Reilly removed the 14,000 discretionary medical cards from the Chronically /terminally ill for 'economic reasons' ,before returning them a year later and hoping that a load would've died in the interim , saving a packet....

That begs the question did he, a medically qualified Doctor & former CEO of the Irish Medical Organization, realize what he was doing?

If he DIDN'T, that makes him unfit to practice and if he if he DID, he knowingly removed the ability of patients to have their medically diagnosed conditions medicated & cared for.......U don't need a Law degree to know what DELIBERATELY taking a persons life is called, do U?

The article also refers to "the 14.9% unemployed rate" claimed by the Government, but that is in fact inaccurate as 14.9% was the figure claiming unemployment benefit, but which did NOT include the Self Employed, who are largely un-entitled to claim from Social welfare...the true figure was over 20%

So, old bean, any chance of current figures, as originally requested,and which take account of this 'recovery' we're all experiencing and the 300,000 who have emigrated since Ur article was written?

who's the Smartarse now? LOL!

Amfyoyo wrote: »

Thank YOU for sending an article over 3 years old....and that was before James 'the hames' Reilly removed the 14,000 discretionary medical cards!

14,000 would not make a statistically significant difference when talking about "over half" of 4.1M.

I suspect more people have turned received them under the enhanced income ranges for >70s in the interim, anyway.

James Reilly is not a registered medical practitioner anymore, and despite your extremely bad attempts to hint at suggesting there'd be any chance of murder chargers - there wouldn't.

Considering your inability to deal with basic statistics I wouldn't go trying to understand the unemployment figures either. But safe to say that the live register is not just those claiming unemployment benefit. We'd probably be here all night trying to explain that.

esforum wrote: »

James 'health insurance' reilly?

Asshat plain and simple, you pay tax, you oay USC and now you have to have private health insurance because apparantly the public system isnt meant for you, the person that pays for it!

What happens if you don't have private health insurance and don't qualify for a medical card.

Are you billed for the entire cost of an operation?

esforum wrote: »

I take the point, badly worded on my part but it should still be my decision whether I choose to go public or private.

No I was really asking.

So you pay nothing if you've no health insurance?

What's the advantage of private health insurance, placed higher on the waiting list?

esforum wrote: »

You pay something for the public system but not a fortune, well if paying 100 euro to wait 8 hours in a&e is cheap that is.

Private health insurance, before you could go private and get treated faster, some stuff not on the public system like laser eye and the likes

then it was brought in that anyone with health insurance had to use it insted of simple using the public system even for equal treatment so you were getting public treatment but your insurance was getting a bill.

The number of people with private insurance went down, shockingly enough and the next step of the sleazy beard was to charge a loading fee the longer you wait after 35 to get private insurance.

that will backfire as well, people wont get it at all

So if you need a hip replacement and you have no insurance or medical card it will cost you nothing?

Will you be a lower on the waiting list though?

esforum wrote: »

There will be a bill, nothings completely free.

Bill in the hundreds or thousands?

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Depends on how long you're in hospital for. For patients with no insurance, there's a flat 100 euro fee for A&E without a doctor's referral, and a flat 75 euro per-night fee for a hospital bed, capped at 750 euro max per-year (This was the case a year or two ago anyway, might be slightly higher now). Outpatient consultants appointments are free, but you need a GP's referral. Everything else is free on the public system - no matter what consultants visits, surgery, etc. You just have to wait your turn on the waiting list...

So with no insurance a hip replacement or other major operation is gonna cost you €750.

Does insurance get you bumped up the waiting list compared to someone with no insurance?

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Even for a hip replacement you shouldn't be in hospital longer than a 4-5 days, so more like €300-€375 for a major operation.

Private insurance does let you skip the queue, because consultants get paid extra for taking private patients on the side. Skipping the queue is the whole point of private insurance - paying for insurance is more expensive than the public system even without a medical card, and you are still usually treated in the same hospitals by the same doctors.

So skipping the queue is the only real advantage of insurance?

Its not a tax really it's your national insurance contribution , basically state health insurance . Tax and NI are separate deductions on your payslip .
I currently pay around 120 a month national insurance , so it's not even cheap

enfant terrible wrote: »

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Depends on how long you're in hospital for. For patients with no insurance, there's a flat 100 euro fee for A&E without a doctor's referral, and a flat 75 euro per-night fee for a hospital bed, capped at 750 euro max per-year (This was the case a year or two ago anyway, might be slightly higher now). Outpatient consultants appointments are free, but you need a GP's referral. Everything else is free on the public system - no matter what consultants visits, surgery, etc. You just have to wait your turn on the waiting list...

So with no insurance a hip replacement or other major operation is gonna cost you €750.

Does insurance get you bumped up the waiting list compared to someone with no insurance?

THR in >90% of cases costs absolutely nothing. The vast majority of those getting prostheses are elderly and on a medical card so don't pay the inpatient charge. In a minority of cases the patient is younger and so doesn't have a medical card in which case they pay about 225 in total. All subsequent meds they get on discharge, follow-up appointments and months of physiotherapy is completely free. That initial charge is waived if it places undue financial hardship on the individual, as per the HSE's legal obligation.
It's been about a year since I was working in orthopaedics but in my particular region, it was about 6-8 week wait for an ACL repair and 3-4 months for a Total Hip Replacement- sooner if the patient has severe pain/functional deficits.

I have health insurance through my work. Broke my arm (open fracture) back in November, was brought to a public hospital. Waited all night on a bed in the A and E corridor, in a fair amount of pain. It was 8pm when I went in and 3pm the next day when I went in for surgery.

I had no idea how my insurance worked to be honest, never looked into it. I just went where the ambulance brought me and gave them my insurance card when I arrived. A girl came over to me when I was lying up in A and E, saying because I was insured I was entitled to a private room if one was available and asked me to sign something. I did so.

I was kept in for a week for IV anti-biotics. I spent every night but 1 night in the gastric ward, in a public room (4+ people). There were no beds available in the broken bone ward until my last night.

I didn't complain about anything because being in that ward made me realise I was quite lucky, the people around me were far sicker than I was.

However! when I rang my insurance about it when I got home, they told me I wouldn't have to pay anything because it was public. I asked what if I had went to a private hospital, they said I'd have been covered also, that the hospital I was in had a private hospital attached and if I had asked, they would have moved me there, or if it was further away, insurance would have covered an ambulance to move me there.

I felt like a bit of a tit, could have had a private room in a private hospital.

The guy who did my surgery was the head professor at the hospital, people seemed surprised every time they looked at my chart and said "oh, the professor is doing the surgery?", I've a feeling he picked me up because I was covered by health insurance and obviously the surgery plus referrals could all be billed directly to them.

Long pointless story short, the doctors were all great anyway. The nurses were all brilliant and some of the stuff I saw them having to do for people made me realise how tough a job they really have.

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I have health insurance through my work. Broke my arm (open fracture) back in November, was brought to a public hospital. Waited all night on a bed in the A and E corridor, in a fair amount of pain. It was 8pm when I went in and 3pm the next day when I went in for surgery.

I had no idea how my insurance worked to be honest, never looked into it. I just went where the ambulance brought me and gave them my insurance card when I arrived. A girl came over to me when I was lying up in A and E, saying because I was insured I was entitled to a private room if one was available and asked me to sign something. I did so.

I was kept in for a week for IV anti-biotics. I spent every night but 1 night in the gastric ward, in a public room (4+ people). There were no beds available in the broken bone ward until my last night.

I didn't complain about anything because being in that ward made me realise I was quite lucky, the people around me were far sicker than I was.

However! when I rang my insurance about it when I got home, they told me I wouldn't have to pay anything because it was public. I asked what if I had went to a private hospital, they said I'd have been covered also, that the hospital I was in had a private hospital attached and if I had asked, they would have moved me there, or if it was further away, insurance would have covered an ambulance to move me there.

I felt like a bit of a tit, could have had a private room in a private hospital.

The guy who did my surgery was the head professor at the hospital, people seemed surprised every time they looked at my chart and said "oh, the professor is doing the surgery?", I've a feeling he picked me up because I was covered by health insurance and obviously the surgery plus referrals could all be billed directly to them.

Long pointless story short, the doctors were all great anyway. The nurses were all brilliant and some of the stuff I saw them having to do for people made me realise how tough a job they really have.

I'd be surprised if that's what happened (but it might be the case). Typically, in public hospitals anyway, orthopaedic teams take turns being on call. The on-call team admits all orthopaedic patients over 24 hours to their care and then treats them after that. The only time I've seen that change is when a patient of another surgeon is re-admitted, or due to time constraints, another surgeon performs the operation (the operating team should always look after the patient so your care would transfer on that basis).

On a more cynical level, when you're private the consultant gets a fee. If you were admitted under Mr A, and then Prof B swoops in and takes over your care for that fee, he's taking it from Mr A. That wouldn't go down well for obvious reasons.