How does ireland not have free healthcare?

L1011

enfant terrible wrote: »

Would you not be better off putting the money you would pay for health insurance each year in a savings account?

Then using that money for scans if the time comes you need them?

Probably. I should look in to it, as after canning UPC TV its now the largest monthly direct debit that isn't my mortgage - and I check frequently to make sure I can't get equivalent cover for less.

Geuze

suicide_circus wrote: »

We don't pay enough tax basically.

It's true that overall taxes are not very high, about middling.

It's also true that many people face very low direct taxes, BUT marginal tax rates are 50% for many people.

However, given the age profile of our population, we are spending too much on health.

Amfyoyo

The amount of money being 'pumped in', coupled with rising waiting times and decreased 'Customer satisfaction' will decree that this will be 'resolved' by the EU, given we seem incapable of sorting it ourselves...

It would, do U all agree,be INFINITELY BETTER to negotiate INTERNALLY reached pay cuts/small Salaries for ALL jobs in the Health Service with performance related bonuses , than have an externally IMPOSED structure applied?

And anyone going on holidays to mainland Europe...price Ur medication here and Ur destination, checking if U actually NEED a prescription to get it abroad...as a example, a medicated Talc in a Chemist in Greece was all of €1.19..compared to €60 for the visit to the doc to get a prescription here...and then €19.30 for the same product....HOW can THAT SIZE of a multiple be justified??


It simply can't.End of discussion!!

Jimbob1977

Last summer, we took a holiday to England

My son developed a chest infection, so we went to the local GP.

He received a thorough examination. When we went to pay the bill, the receptionist said that it was free.

We said that we were tourists and not UK taxpayers.... there must be a charge for foreigners. We were happy to pay.

Same reply.... Don't worry, folks. It's still free. No bother.

What a great service; however the waves of foreign migration must stretch it severely.

Jimbob1977

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Last summer, we took a holiday to England

My son developed a chest infection, so we went to the local GP.

He received a thorough examination. When we went to pay the bill, the receptionist said that it was free.

We said that we were tourists and not UK taxpayers.... there must be a charge for foreigners. We were happy to pay.

Same reply.... Don't worry, folks. It's still free. No bother.

What a great service; however the waves of foreign migration must stretch it severely.

There is an agreement between Ireland and Uk going back decades. There is also an agreement between all EU member states, but that usually requires production of the E11 card.

Amfyoyo

"However, given the age profile of our population, we are spending too much on health".
Geuze is offline

Please excuse the dreadfulness of the quote Geuze, but it's important U credit people with their work...

May I suggest the issue is not JUST spending too much, but there is no ACCOUNTABILITY for what's spent either...or any NOTION of 'VALUE FOR MONEY' either,the prevailing attitude being 'Sure, SOMEONE will pick up the 'tab'...they always have", so it's reasonable to assume they always will

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm...you don't need a law degree to know that making decisions about eligibility for free medical aid is not a crime, if that's what you're getting at.

With almost 2 million medical cards in the country in 2013, some reduction was inevitable and desirable. That's not to say the cuts were appropriate at all. But for huge numbers out there, healthcare is so subsidised as to be effectively free.

The overseas scheme was one of the first cut back on in the crash, was working quite well up to that.

Private insurance isn't much use in most general hospitals, the few private rooms are reserved for things like contagious cases. Resources are at such a premium, private insurance is down the list.

I've personal experience of family members, who've paid insurance all their lives, dying in public wards with everybody listening in. Tbh it's a bit crass mentioning it, everybody is entitled to peace and dignity in death in a modern 1st world health service, private insurance or not.

Private insurance is for jumping the queue for procedures, longer stays in semi-privates and private hospitals, stuff like that.

More chance of seeing the private consultatant.

L1011

K-9 wrote: »

The overseas scheme was one of the first cut back on in the crash, was working quite well up to that.

Erm, no, no idea where you're getting that from.

EHIC holders are still treated as medical card holders.

Irish in the UK are treated as citizens under the Ireland Act 1948 - not EU rules

Amfyoyo

THEE most IMPORTANT thing to bring with U when U're traveling abroad, but ESPECIALLY IN THE EU

is Ur E 111 Card, which U get automatically once U have a PRSI number (or whatever it's called this week!!!) because it ensures U'll get free medical cover, irrespective of any Health Insurance/travel Insurance U may take out....

Travel list....Passport, Tickets, E 111, loot........
Tubbs

Graham

Amfyoyo wrote: »

THEE most IMPORTANT thing to bring with U when U're traveling abroad, but ESPECIALLY IN THE EU

is Ur E 111 Card, which U get automatically once U have a PRSI number (or whatever it's called this week!!!) because it ensures U'll get free medical cover, irrespective of any Health Insurance/travel Insurance U may take out....

Travel list....Passport, Tickets, E 111, loot........
Tubbs

The E111 no longer exists, if I remember correctly it was replaced 12 years ago.

You need to take your ECIC card with you when venturing to European destinations

George Michael

Graham wrote: »

The E111 no longer exists, if I remember correctly it was replaced 12 years ago.

You need to take your ECIC card with you when venturing to European destinations

if you were living close to the northern irish border could you just visit a NI doctor for free then?

K-9

L1011 wrote: »

Erm, no, no idea where you're getting that from.

EHIC holders are still treated as medical card holders.

Irish in the UK are treated as citizens under the Ireland Act 1948 - not EU rules

Sorry, I was thinking of the foreign treatment scheme.

K-9

George Michael wrote: »

if you were living close to the northern irish border could you just visit a NI doctor for free then?

AFAIK you need to work in NI to qualify for a medical card there, or live in N.I.

Graham

George Michael wrote: »

if you were living close to the northern irish border could you just visit a NI doctor for free then?

If you live in the South and work in the South, I doubt you could just register with a GP in the North. You would be eligible for treatment when visiting the North but I've no idea whether there's a specific definition for 'visiting'.

Graham

K-9 wrote: »

AFAIK you need to work in NI to qualify for a medical card there, or live in N.I.

There's a medical card in NI?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

K-9

Graham wrote: »

There's a medical card in NI?

AFAIK you need one to join up with a doctor's surgery. Could be wrong but that's my recollection.

12Phase

One thing is that the ironically named NICE (National Institutute for Healthcare and Excellence) (I don't know why they drop the H either) doesn't approve a lot of the very expensive treatments that are available here.

We aren't making the kind of cold value for money decisions the NHS makes around areas like cancer care where they will not pay for certain high tech medicines, or in circumstances where someone is older etc as they'll see it as an unjustifiable expensive treatment.

We also seem to be getting very poor value for money on drug prices and other day to day expenditure.

The NHS tends to give much better coverage at primary care but I wouldn't actually rate it as all that great for complicated and high tech medicine. It's definitely not as good as the French system for example.

I know I've seen cancer care in both jurisdictions and the drugs and tech resources here and willingness to not worry about the costs was far more prevalent here. The NHS setup had more resources focused on the basics though ; community nursing, general practice etc

We don't really have a "system" though. It's more a collection of sparring vested interests and hospitals.

You'd need to completely reorganise primary care here to reduce pressure. Way too many things in Ireland go to hospital ; follow up blood tests, even ongoing chromotherapy delivery etc could easily happen in a community clinic context.

Also if GPs were in clinics rather than mostly in pokey practices, you'd have some scope to have diagnostic facilities. A group of GPs could EASILY support way more tech and also extra staff.

Basically, our system is screwed up and not organised and viciously resistant to reform.

For example, try reorganising the hospitals here and the knives come out with save our hospital campaigns. They're well meaning but often don't see the big picture at all.

Nobody is prepared to take on the vested interests though. That mess around the national children's hospital is an example of what the ministers and HSE management are up against.

The minister and senior management should have absolutely steamrollered them on that. At least €35m of public funds was wasted and nothing was delivered basically because a bunch of vested interests with focus on their own hospitals were allowed to control the entire process.

steddyeddy

K-9 wrote: »

AFAIK you need one to join up with a doctor's surgery. Could be wrong but that's my recollection.

Well when I moved to the UK the only thing I needed to do was register with the GP. I also made an appointment at the time of registering.

I assumed I'd need a national insurance number (uk PPS number) but I didn't.

andekwarhola

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some don't even want to pay for the water THEY use, so I very much doubt they'd be too willing to pay the extra taxes needed for free healthcare for all. Some are peed off that kids under 6 and OAPs get free doctor visits.

While I completely agree with the assessment of the pay nothing/expect everything culture here, the point is that the HSE is well funded, especially for a country of this size, and should be able to deliver a better service but doesn't. Throwing more money into it isn't the answer.