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In a hundred years what will we look back on as our greatest shame?

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    #62
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I might google them actually

    As it very easy to fall over into conspiracy theory/bullsiht territory as happens most movements that attempts to tackle this and they tend to end up looking like them freemen/generally a bit tick/easily dismissed as a result

    id highly recommend their work even though ellen brown is a little quirky and does dip her toes into conspiracy stuff which is a little cringeworthy. her banking stuff is solid though. ive also been recommended Steve Keen but i havent had the chance to check out his work yet. they all have a lot of stuff on the weird wide web including youtube. heavy going stuff at times but worth checking out.


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    #63
    HardenendMan
    Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭HardenendMan


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Without sounding complety conspiracy theorist

    Allowing the accumulation of wealth at the top/richest level

    I read before something like 20 people in America have as much money as the bottom 100 million


    While them occupy movements may be extreme etc....them holding so much money and the poorest going without is in no way right and at root of many problems


    As for how to fix this....I'm fcuked if I know....but I do think it will be looked back in 100 years as wrong to not at least a serious attempt to narrow the gap between the haves and have nots

    I don't agree about the idea that wealth is unfairly distributed. It is often spouted on Irish political debate shows - the rich get richer bla bla.

    Where does the rich man get his money from? From the not so rich. Because he offers a service/product that people want. If you took all the cash in Ireland and distributed it equally, the so called rich man would open a pub and a bookies, and the poor man would spend his money there. That is obviously just a silly example. It manifests in a more complex way.

    It's funny - we call the wealthy people greedy, yet think we should be allowed take their money off them.

    Another point - the government get stick for making budgets suit the high rollers. When the reality is that our progressive tax system means the rich pay a lot of cash into the exchequer. And yet you have someone on social welfare (a net drawer) ranting and raving about an unfair society.


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    #64
    One More Toy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Banning facekicker


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    #65
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    HardenendMan wrote: »
    I don't agree about the idea that wealth is unfairly distributed. It is often spouted on Irish political debate shows - the rich get richer bla bla.

    Where does the rich man get his money from? From the not so rich. Because he offers a service/product that people want. If you took all the cash in Ireland and distributed it equally, the so called rich man would open a pub and a bookies, and the poor man would spend his money there. That is obviously just a silly example. It manifests in a more complex way.

    It's funny - we call the wealthy people greedy, yet think we should be allowed take their money off them.

    Another point - the government get stick for making budgets suit the high rollers. When the reality is that our progressive tax system means the rich pay a lot of cash into the exchequer. And yet you have someone on social welfare (a net drawer) ranting and raving about an unfair society.

    id recommend the work of those ive mentioned in post 58. its very complicated stuff but in a nutshell, yes the rich are getting richer. those ive mentioned in that post would explain it better than i ever could. the main gainers actually dont live in ireland. most of the money is ending up in higher tiers of our economic and financial systems


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    #66
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #67
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    HardenendMan wrote: »
    I don't agree about the idea that wealth is unfairly distributed. It is often spouted on Irish political debate shows - the rich get richer bla bla.

    Where does the rich man get his money from? From the not so rich. Because he offers a service/product that people want. If you took all the cash in Ireland and distributed it equally, the so called rich man would open a pub and a bookies, and the poor man would spend his money there. That is obviously just a silly example. It manifests in a more complex way.

    It's funny - we call the wealthy people greedy, yet think we should be allowed take their money off them.

    Another point - the government get stick for making budgets suit the high rollers. When the reality is that our progressive tax system means the rich pay a lot of cash into the exchequer. And yet you have someone on social welfare (a net drawer) ranting and raving about an unfair society.
    There's no doubting it's a tough one to figure out without the feeling someone's getting screwed over at some end



    But in no world is it right that in Ireland something like 15% of people hold 85% of the wealth
    I've no idea on how to fix it with a degree of equality to all concerned...but it deos seem to follow the path of America where money seems to accumulate at the top and the worrying social conditions etc

    As its for people planning to tackle it...very easily fall into the trap of wealth redistribution

    Just I do believe some quality effort should be made to tackle this....but how to do it when any attempt to even contemplate it is dismissed as communist/conspiracy rubbish and debate stifled as such


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    #68
    demanufactured
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭demanufactured


    Paddy the plasterer


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    #69
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,989 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    boring! we ve been over this before permabear! no its not! the planet is wrapped up in debt and theres no way of paying it back. heres one of michael hudsons current interviews explaining the issues. hes the second interviewee. first chap is worth a listen as well. enjoy:

    http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2016/03/20/episode-91-ageofstagnation/


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    #70
    hefferboi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭hefferboi


    Batman vs Superman


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    #71
    IamtheWalrus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,075 ✭✭✭IamtheWalrus


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I might google them actually

    As it very easy to fall over into conspiracy theory/bullsiht territory as happens most movements that attempts to tackle this and they tend to end up looking like them freemen/generally a bit tick/easily dismissed as a result

    Ha-joon Chang has a very good intro to economics book.


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    #72
    CaraMay
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭CaraMay


    Allowing people, who are able to work, to sit at home and live off the state for their entire lives.


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    #73
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    It's extraordinary the way most people here want to lesson the suffering of others yet one or two people want to exclude people based on their ethnicity, further the lot of some at the expense of the vulnerable or get rid of state benefits.

    Our great shame in our past has generally revolved around our treatment of the poor, refugees or other ethnicities. There's no moment in history I can think of where we can be happy different ethnicities were victimised.


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    #74
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    I think Ireland will look back with shame on the "life of the mother" legislation passed last year that allowed for circumstances to transpire that resulted in a baby being born with profound disabilities whose future is as a disabled ward of the state. What happens to those children is a horrific shame in itself all too often.

    I feel like that legislation was passed in the middle of the night by boozed up politicians enjoying a good laugh and that it wasn't thought through to every full conclusion at all. No real debate or exchange of opinion was had. If it had been properly considered surely they'd have added a provision for refugee women to travel before that time if they chose but also for better services here for them here.

    We always hear of the tragedy of the women in these cases, and rightly so, but it really bothers me that we are a generation who saw this happen to a little baby and so rarely if ever make reference to the horror of his story. I feel like if someday that child is 20 and ends up on Prime Time we'll sit there listening and have to feel to an extent, that one's sort of on us, we were the adults who saw newspaper headlines saying that what happened to him was possible under that piece of legislation and then totally lost sight of the child when it did happen.

    Regardless of anyone's feelings on abortion, that child's case has to make anyone shudder.

    EDIT I probably should clarify I think that the life of the mother issue absolutely needed to be addressed and I'm glad they finally moved on it, but feel they should've done better and one person particularly has suffered horribly for it.


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    #75
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Having to have a referendum so that two people who happen to be of the same sex, can marry each other. Despite said referendum, same sex couples still facing a lot of discrimination.


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    #76
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The species-destructive sociopathic ideology of US 'libertarianism'. It will be viewed as being at the other end of the spectrum of the Khmer Rouge's 'collectivism'.


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    #77
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    gigantic09 wrote: »
    Giving up our fishing rights,for a few pints of porter and the smell of a pound.

    When we joined the EU, we had two choices. We shared our fishing rights with Europe or we didnt get to sell our farm produce in Europe. So we choose farming. IMO it is a wise choice. We now have some of the largest food producers in Europe, which are all Irish owned. Our farming sector is an economic powerhouse and highly important to the economy. I seriously doubt that our fishing industry would have came close to this.


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    #78
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    CaraMay wrote: »
    Allowing people, who are able to work, to sit at home and live off the state for their entire lives.

    In a 100 yrs the common man will be paid a living wage for essentially doing nothing as robots and computers will do practically everything...

    In a way, 'dole scroungers' are before their time!


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    #79
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    When we joined the EU, we had two choices. We shared our fishing rights with Europe or we didnt get to sell our farm produce in Europe. So we choose farming. IMO it is a wise choice. We now have some of the largest food producers in Europe, which are all Irish owned. Our farming sector is an economic powerhouse and highly important to the economy. I seriously doubt that our fishing industry would have came close to this.

    From 1975 to 2010,non Irish boats have taken 184 billions worth of fish out of our waters.


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    #80
    rsh118
    Registered Users Posts: 697 ✭✭✭rsh118


    We'll think it was mental that gay people couldn't get married. Like, absolutely loopy to the same extent that a black person in the states was 3/5s of a human.


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    #81
    tommyboy2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭tommyboy2222


    Boyzlife


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    #82
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Things like homelessness and involuntary unemployment - depriving people of equal opportunity, eating into their lifetime earning potential, and all the other associated ills of unemployment - will hopefully look like archaic madness in 100 years.

    We'll look back on the Euro then, as we look back on the Gold Standard now - pure idiocy, where the problems inherent in that type of currency were obvious and inevitable.

    Then again, it's very common for lessons from the past, to remain unlearned for more than a century - I could easily see another 100 years pass with the same things happening over and over again, with the public being none the wiser, so long as enough time has passed since the last time, for people to forget - a lot of the lessons we're returning to now, were already learned (and forgotten...) the best part of a century ago.


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    #83
    Eramen
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    In 100 years our decedents will look back and wonder why we allowed them to become a minority in their own homeland. As Ferdinand Von Prondzynski, Former President of DCU stated, Irish natives will become a minority in Ireland by 2050.

    Yes it would take a non-Irish person to say that, wouldn't it? Someone who is not part of our left-collective think-a-like establishment, who is not privy to our supposed 'culture' of silence.

    To think that 100 years ago Irish folk suffered for their decision to fight for & remain independent - and bore it with wit and fortitude. No more. We are more backward today than we ever were..

    Uh.. what's that? We voted #Yes2015.. who cares.. 65% of under 35 yo's will never be able to afford their own house/property ever according to the CSO , EVER... sooo stupid, sooo trendy and misled. Fighting everybody's battle except for our own is a modern national pastime. You'll understand that last part by the time you're 40.


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    #84
    KKkitty
    Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    Homelessness being a rampant part of our society. Even knowing there's still unfinished housing estates that won't be completed in the next year or so that could be homes for people is sickening.

    Abortion not being a fundamental right to all women who need it. For whatever reason a woman in this country does not want to continue with their pregnancy, I don't like the fact that they have to travel across the water to undergo something that should be provided by their own country.

    Politicians and their exuberant salaries. They often don't do all the hard graft themselves and are paid handsomely. If a politician is not doing their job properly they should be sacked but they're shifted on to another department. If anyone else in any other position in Ireland wasn't doing their job they would be sacked with little financial assistance afterwards. If politicians knew if they weren't up to scratch and they wouldn't get a big paycheck even on termination I'm sure a lot would pull up their socks.


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    #85
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,239 ✭✭✭munster87


    In 100 years, some of our greatest shame could stem from numerous comments on boards


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    #86
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Eramen wrote: »
    In 100 years our decedents will look back and wonder why we allowed them to become a minority in their own homeland.

    We're made up of Celts, Normans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons? Who is we?


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    #87
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Facebook. If we aren't ashamed of that absolute ridiculous mindfeck then we are lost. Status. On the bog... Taking a whizz, having lunch, out for a walk etc etc.

    Yep I agree 100% Like bebo, MySpace and others it'll be dead in the water soon...... I hope...


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    #88
    Eramen
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    We're made up of Celts, Normans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons? Who is we?

    Exactly, that's 'the Irish' composition, the aforementioned groups that you have brought up. Ask Prof Prondzynski if in doubt.

    Naturally, other peoples' are not part of this group - not because they aren't cool or anything - but because their genotype and phenotype are too far removed from us biologically speaking.

    Biology has real consequences, just break open the world IQ or disease indexes, we're all affected in many different ways and very strongly via biological influences. It's all very fascinating.

    It's just a pity we look down on our own selves so much, I think we are actually quite unique - in this way and otherwise. No people should become a minority in the fashion we are going through today. My, we never even voted that godless world capitalism could import all the slaves immigrants it wanted! But we never stand up for ourselves do we?


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    #89
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The species-destructive sociopathic ideology of US 'libertarianism'. It will be viewed as being at the other end of the spectrum of the Khmer Rouge's 'collectivism'.

    I haven't heard a coherent enough form of that to view it as a threat.


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    #90
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    Allowing the Catholic Church have the primary role in shaping our fledgling Republic and the abuse of that trust which followed


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    #91
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,858 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    To Elland Back wrote: »
    Allowing the Catholic Church have the primary role in shaping our fledgling Republic and the abuse of that trust which followed

    Seconded, if we're talking about the entire world in 2116 I'd say procrastinating on tackling climate change. It could trigger a refugee crisis that makes the current one look like a cakewalk.


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