Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

Arkady · 13-03-2016 09:32PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Indeed RTE paid Pat Kenny 900k a year in taxpayers money

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 09:33PM

Any worker who has to boost his/her basic pay by working overtime is in the wrong job. Nurses and guards are certainly not on a good basic pay.

RDM_83 again · 13-03-2016 09:33PM

I'm not sure if we can ever pay enough to medical graduates to compete with the USA, our healthcare system simply doesn't operate like that, those that advocate we do should look at the sheer costs involved in medical treatment there (But remember that American Doctor probably has 200 thousand debt when they graduate comparative to maybe 10-20k in Ireland) its just not the same system.

There is loads of professions that are badly paid these days, what we need to fix is the gerontocracy that exists in terms of people being locked out of permanent contracts. A Nurse or Teacher on a permanent contract is not badly paid and has job security.
I work in a low paid insecure roll, plenty of people leave to join teaching (and heard of a few too nursing), nobody really goes the other way (apart from those who are financially secure), to me thats the sign your actually low paid, when people leave to join the "low paid"

Wanderer78 · 13-03-2016 09:33PM

most of the labour force is under paid at the moment, or another way of looking at it is most are over taxed. those that you mention op deserve higher pay as their services to society are extremely important.

Arkady · 13-03-2016 09:38PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

most of the labour force is under paid at the moment, or another way of looking at it is most are over taxed. those that you mention op deserve higher pay as their services to society are extremely important.

Ireland has to remain competitive though. Salaries in Ireland are still much too high and non competitive with large parts of Europe. Unless working people grasp this, and their obligation to pay sufficient taxes/levies/charges for Ireland to remain a favorable location for the wealthy, the wealthy will just leave Ireland and live elsewhere.

Stark · 13-03-2016 09:43PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Regarding teachers, I agree with you, but performance related pay is a dangerous route to take. What one person deems to be a 'good' teacher may not be what another thinks.

Same issues of subjectivity exist in all professions. Not sure why teachers are a special case.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 09:44PM

Arkady wrote: »

Ireland has to remain competitive though. Salaries in Ireland are still much too high and non competitive with large parts of Europe. Unless working people grasp this, and their obligation to pay sufficient taxes/levies/charges for Ireland to remain a favorable location for the wealthy, the wealthy will just leave Ireland and live elsewhere.

You would need to provide evidence of a standard of living too.
A lot of things are much cheaper in European countries hence the wages here.

13-03-2016 09:47PM

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more qualified than AGS.

Arkady · 13-03-2016 09:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

A lot of things are much cheaper in European countries hence the wages here.

Exactly, Ireland is not competive. In order for it to be so, and for the costs of goods and services to be so, the wages need to come down. Profit levels need to be sustained in order to make it worth an employers while to employ Irish people.

FGR · 13-03-2016 09:56PM

Augeo wrote: »

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more qualified than AGS.

The minimum entry requirements are lower but bear in mind that AGS recruits are trained to bachelors degree level. Also, many in AGS are in possession of post second level qualifications prior to joining.

Also - the rent allowance provided to serving members of AGS doesn't put a dent into rates of rent in Dublin (€2,000 after tax). It must also be noted that the allowance has been abolished for new entrants since FEMPI.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 09:56PM

Arkady wrote: »

Exactly, Ireland is not competive. In order for it to be so, and for the costs of goods and services to be so, the wages need to come down. Profit levels need to be sustained in order to make it worth an employers while to employ Irish people.

Catch 22.

Tzardine · 13-03-2016 09:56PM

Jesse Odd Parrot wrote: »

Its a down right lie/spoof.

I'd clean toilets all day, with a toothbrush, for €800 euro a week.

I don't know what else to tell you. I am their manager and. They get paid more than me. Although I am a new entrant, having only joined two years ago.

Victor · 13-03-2016 09:57PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Realistically what kind of wage are they on? I would like to think they were starting on 40,000 or so rising to 80,000 with experience. I guess it is way less.

A newly sworn-in Garda (not a student garda) is on about €31,000 per year + shift allowances (for working evenings, nights, weekends and public holidays) and overtime. http://www.gra.cc/pay__scales_budget_2010.shtml

After 17 years, if still at Garda rank, they are on about €51,000 basic.

Promotion and technical skills get higher pay and some additional allowances - detectives get 'walking around money'.

FGR wrote: »

The minimum entry requirements are lower but bear in mind that AGS recruits are trained to bachelors degree level. Also, many in AGS are in possession of post second level qualifications prior to joining.

How to they achieve a bachelors degree in under 2 years?

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 09:58PM

Victor wrote: »

A newly sworn-in Garda (not a student garda) is on about €31,000.

Jesus that's pretty bad. I knew their pay was low but that's an insult.

newwan · 13-03-2016 09:59PM

Olishi4 wrote: »

newwan wrote: »

Not I mean putting back into the system that spent money on them and investing on their training. In the UK, army doctors who have been supported through university are required to spend some years working before leaving after gaining their qualification but civilians can up and leave for Canada or Australia the next day.

How can things improve for the health system in the long run, if time and money is spent on training only for them to leave?

Are there similar issues in dental and veterinary services in Ireland?

Totally diff. Im not even going to begin to speculate on the specifics of a soldier who is paid to become a doctor versus a citizen who takes on a debt of 100+k to become a doc.

So your answer to fix the health system is lock doctors in? Dont bother with increasing other staff members or decreasing work hours or handover of tasks or increasing beds and radiology services etc. Just lock them in. And were golden. Interesting

gctest50 · 13-03-2016 10:05PM

Augeo wrote: »

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more qualified than AGS.

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more likely to not get shot at or stabbed

13-03-2016 10:10PM

gctest50 wrote: »

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more likely to not get shot at or stabbed

If there wasn't that risk for AGS they'd be on less than what they're on now, part of the job, no secret to anyone.

also what number of AGS are shot or stabbed per annum? Not many thankfully.

rubadub · 13-03-2016 10:11PM

myshirt wrote: »

I once had this debate with a few friends during a Manchester United match. A robust debate which nearly came to blows.

Wayne Rooney - the man is on £200k a week.
A nurse, £30k a year.
Where is the justice or sense in spending country economic wealth that way?

He is working in the entertainment industry and highly skilled, the likes of you and your mates are paying his wages indirectly. If an average guy leaves school and trains in football for the same time as a nurse I would say he would start out on less than £30k a year playing football.

Famous skilled plastic surgeons would be paid a lot, some have tv shows in the US so would get money via advertising revenue etc, just like footballers benefit from. If there was interest in nursing I imagine some could make a fortune, some professions attract a paying audience, Judge Judy is one of the richest women in the US.

It was later reported in October 2013 that Sheindlin is the highest-paid TV star, earning $47 million per year for Judge Judy, which translates into just over $900,000 per workday (she works 52 days per year)

Augeo wrote: »

It's important to remember that nurses & teachers are far more qualified than AGS.

It's also important to understand the concept of "danger money", of course many nurses would be at risk too.

13-03-2016 10:15PM

rubadub wrote: »

.......

It's also important to understand the concept of "danger money", of course many nurses would be at risk too.

As I said, if it wasn't a dangerous job AGS would be on less than they are on today.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 10:17PM

Augeo wrote: »

As I said, if it wasn't a dangerous job AGS would be on less than they are on today.

FFS they are on a pittance if they're only on 31K.
Very poor money.
Anyone know how much a nurse gets?

13-03-2016 10:21PM

tayto lover wrote: »

FFS they are on a pittance if they're only on 31K.
Very poor money.......

It goes up every year.
That's the year 1 salary excluding shift premium.

Olishi4 · 13-03-2016 10:21PM

newwan wrote: »

Olishi4 wrote: »

Totally diff. Im not even going to begin to speculate on the specifics of a soldier who is paid to become a doctor versus a citizen who takes on a debt of 100+k to become a doc.

So your answer to fix the health system is lock doctors in? Dont bother with increasing other staff members or decreasing work hours or handover of tasks or increasing beds and radiology services etc. Just lock them in. And were golden. Interesting

"Lock doctors in" is a bit of an exaggeration to what I am saying. During training, doctors are paid. A couple more years working within the system that invested in them and being paid at specialist level will only add to their training and experience.

More fully trained doctors available equals less OT for specialists in general and less pressure on doctors in training therefore less OT, staff burn out and less tax payers money wasted on overtime. This does "increase staff", "decreases working hours" and stops the handover, pressure and responsibility of specialist tasks being placed on those who are not fully trained.

Wanderer78 · 13-03-2016 10:25PM

Arkady wrote: »

Ireland has to remain competitive though. Salaries in Ireland are still much too high and non competitive with large parts of Europe. Unless working people grasp this, and their obligation to pay sufficient taxes/levies/charges for Ireland to remain a favorable location for the wealthy, the wealthy will just leave Ireland and live elsewhere.

id highly recommend the work of economists such as ellen brown, bill black, ha-joon chang and michael hudson for some background info regarding the workings of our economic systems. basically our whole financial system is parasitic in nature and the whole labour force is on the hook for its failings or successes, depending on which way you look at it. i go with failings. we re following fundamentally flawed economic systems and theories mainly neoliberalism and neoclassical theory. the aim of these systems is too entrap everybody with as much debt as possible and to reduce their income to as little as possible. we re then told this is the free market and competition is good! theres also a false belief that if we make a small portion of society rich, that money will trickle down. NOT! id highly recommend those ive mentioned. theyd explain it far better than i would. oh yea the neoliberalist system 'says', we must make people as 'poor' as possible in order to be competitive! competitive for who? who gains? not us anyway! oh another thing, the rich generally invest their money in assets or money making money schemes which has very little bearing on the real economy. so in a nutshell, its time for the labour force to stand up and fight back or we re sunk.

Redser87 · 13-03-2016 10:27PM

Staff nurse starts at 27,400, according to the hse website which won't copy properly on my phone.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 10:27PM

Augeo wrote: »

It goes up every year.
That's the year 1 salary excluding shift premium.

Its clearly not near enough though.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 10:29PM

Redser87 wrote: »

Staff nurse starts at 27,400, according to the hse website which won't copy properly on my phone.

Oh my God. I have even more respect for them. They must be so dedicated to work for that little. That is a scandalous wage.

maryishere · 13-03-2016 10:29PM

Ally Dick wrote: »

The main problem is the strength of the unions and the benchmarking in the public sector unions that they can't row back on. Now the HSE is stuck with big payroll costs, and some people sitting at a desk doing f@ck all earning €70k a year, because they are there years, while new recruits are getting around €22k and doing as much if not more than those people on the big money

Plus the pensions...the people sitting at a desk doing f@ck all earning €70k a year
retire on more than most people in the private sector earn. The system is ******.

tayto lover · 13-03-2016 10:34PM

maryishere wrote: »

Plus the pensions...the people sitting at a desk doing f@ck all earning €70k a year
retire on more than most people in the private sector earn. The system is ******.

And yet when people go on strike for better pay they are lambasted for doing so.

13-03-2016 10:34PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Its clearly not near enough though.

What do you reckon is enough for a Garda in Year 1 ?
Rising to what after how many years?

Squall Leonhart · 13-03-2016 10:36PM

tayto lover wrote:

And yet when people go on strike for better pay they are lambasted for doing so.

Not necessarily true...

Nurses and medical staff typically have public support.

Luas drivers and teachers do not!

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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