Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

Tzardine · 13-03-2016 08:16PM

gazzer wrote: »

I sincerely doubt that considering that Clerical Officers in the Public Service are on €420 euro a week before deductions

I promise you its true. They are there 20 years and have a composite rate to include Sundays and bank holidays. It also includes compensation for deals done over the years to work days the place was previously closed.

Mad but true.

suicide_circus · 13-03-2016 08:17PM

All workers should be paid in the form of one bowl of thin watery gruel per day.

purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 08:24PM

If there are cleaners earning €800 in a week, there's definitely something wrong. Soccer stars earning 200k a week is a different ball game and not really comparing like with like. (I disagree completely with the amount of money they're paid, but it's a separate argument).

I think it's important to remember that if we want monkeys, then pay peanuts.

I'd be happy if nurses got paid more. They do a very important job with very limited resources.

sjb25 · 13-03-2016 08:25PM

A national ambulance service Paramedic starts on €25447 per year and Luas drivers are giving out about low pay for the important job they do????

Olishi4 · 13-03-2016 08:26PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

All workers should be paid in the form of one bowl of thin watery gruel per day.

"Please sir, I want some more"

Rightwing · 13-03-2016 08:33PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

If there are cleaners earning €800 in a week, there's definitely something wrong. Soccer stars earning 200k a week is a different ball game and not really comparing like with like. (I disagree completely with the amount of money they're paid, but it's a separate argument).

I think it's important to remember that if we want monkeys, then pay peanuts.

I'd be happy if nurses got paid more. They do a very important job with very limited resources.

That's what B Ahern said, so we paid him upwards of €300K making him the 2nd highest paid leader in the world, but guess what we ended up with?

Clue: Begins with M

purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 08:35PM

Rightwing wrote: »

That's what B Ahern said, so we paid him upwards of €300K making him the 2nd highest paid leader in the world, but guess what we ended up with?

Clue: Begins with M

Haha I think within reasonable limits though. Who determines that though, I don't know. I don't agree that 300k for a leader of a country is reasonable salary. I think it's extortionate. I also think it's ridiculous when our leader earns more than the president of the USA, but who cares what I think?!

(Anyway, I don't think politicians follow any of the rules that apply to 'normal' employees!)

Permabear · 13-03-2016 08:36PM

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Permabear · 13-03-2016 08:43PM

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purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 08:47PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't think that's reasonable either.

Regarding teachers, I agree with you, but performance related pay is a dangerous route to take. What one person deems to be a 'good' teacher may not be what another thinks.

newwan · 13-03-2016 08:50PM

Olishi4 wrote: »

Agree with less working hours. If you are talking about Ireland, consultants in 2013 earned average of 170000, earning alot more than most other European countries. In Italy, 71000, Spain 65000 as a comparison.
Are you sure you are comparing take home pay here or base salary?

In Ireland, we also rely heavily on trainee junior doctors for patient care who are still in the process of training yet some are already at specialist levels of pay. Nearly all work over time. One doctor earned 150000 in over time plus about 60000 basic in 2013. That year the tax payer paid 165 million in overtime to trainees.

Relying too much on trainees and paying time and a half and double time is a safety issue not just a cost to the tax payer. But in relation to the thread, overtime and how it is calculated and basic junior payment is higher than UK.

Only interns get paid time and a half now. Where are you getting your info from?

Excessive OT should be reduced with more fully trained consultants taking on the bulk of the work.
Consultants already have responsibility for 36 hours straight when on call. How much longer Would you like them to work for?

to ensure that once qualified, they should be required to spend some time in the state system when training is complete.

you mean an illegal measure to restrict free movement of the work force in the eu? Or would you be in favor of bringing something similiar in for dentists and vets who are far more expensive to train than docs?

What do you think?

Edward Hopper · 13-03-2016 08:51PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Don't totally disagree, I'm sure there are some god awful nurses, but performance and productivity in nursing is quite a hard one to judge or reward imho. The one who fills every form, or even knows every drug by heart isn't necessarily the best or most caring nurse. I struggle to see how you could grade performance in a supposed caring profession. Not saying it can't be done, just I can't think of a way to judge nurses merit and then pay them accordingly myself.

Specialun · 13-03-2016 08:55PM

Teachers get paid for a few months off..think they do ok

Godge · 13-03-2016 08:57PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

No there aren't.

"CLEANER - PPC
€365.31 €390.57 €397.64 €414.15 €433.97 €446.24¹ €465.35 ²"

That was 2014, there may have been a small increase this year.

I have heard of general operatives in pharmaceutical plants in Cork being paid 80k.

The Backwards Man · 13-03-2016 08:58PM

I was a doing a bit of lawn work for a rich family a few years ago. Come Friday evening I knocked on the door in the hope of getting paid, and the four year old son answered. 'Is your Mammy or Daddy in?' says I. 'No', says he, 'are you looking to get paid? I can pay you'. 'OK', says I, somewhat bemused. So the wee lad goes back into the house and reappears a few minutes later handing me a shiny one pence piece. 'What's the idea of this?' says I. 'Mammy says you aren't worth tuppence' says he, smiling.

Earthhorse · 13-03-2016 08:58PM

People don't get paid what they deserve, they get paid what they negotiate. I know plenty of people who earn far more than their worth and vice versa. I don't really know how to judge that on an occupational basis. Do I feel nurses are underpaid? In general, yes, but I also think there's some basic economics at play.

Godge · 13-03-2016 09:00PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Haha I think within reasonable limits though. Who determines that though, I don't know. I don't agree that 300k for a leader of a country is reasonable salary. I think it's extortionate. I also think it's ridiculous when our leader earns more than the president of the USA, but who cares what I think?!

(Anyway, I don't think politicians follow any of the rules that apply to 'normal' employees!)

You don't become President of the USA unless you are rich already so it isn't a good comparison.

noodler · 13-03-2016 09:02PM

Redser87 wrote: »

Definitely think FEMPI should be revoked to give equality of pay for post 2012 entrants.
Nurses don't get paid close to enough IMO. I also think that new Guards should be on much more than their starting salary.

Sadly I don't think FEMPI covered the new entrant reductions from 2011 onwards.

I'd worry the guy who started a fee years before me will always be on comparatively more money after the same amount of years worked.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-03-2016 09:05PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

Where?.

I'm a soldier.

I'm in the public sector and not earning next or near that, I wish to transfer my service from soldier to office cleaner.

noodler · 13-03-2016 09:07PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

I think this is an absolute lie and/or rumour.

Postgrads I'm the civil service with degrees start off on less than 600 gross. Per week.

Ally Dick · 13-03-2016 09:08PM

The main problem is the strength of the unions and the benchmarking in the public sector unions that they can't row back on. Now the HSE is stuck with big payroll costs, and some people sitting at a desk doing f@ck all earning €70k a year, because they are there years, while new recruits are getting around €22k and doing as much if not more than those people on the big money

purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 09:10PM

Specialun wrote: »

Teachers get paid for a few months off..think they do ok

Paid? For months off? I think you misunderstand the idea of a 'salary'.

Also, many teachers, my partner included, do not get paid for days they do not work. The lack of contracts for primary and post primary teachers means many will NOT get paid at Easter or during the summer.

Olishi4 · 13-03-2016 09:12PM

newwan wrote: »

Olishi4 wrote: »

Excessive OT should be reduced with more fully trained consultants taking on the bulk of the work.
Consultants already have responsibility for 36 hours straight when on call. How much longer Would you like them to work for?

you mean an illegal measure to restrict free movement of the work force in the eu? Or would you be in favor of bringing something similiar in for dentists and vets who are far more expensive to train than docs?

What do you think?

Not I mean putting back into the system that spent money on them and investing on their training. In the UK, army doctors who have been supported through university are required to spend some years working before leaving after gaining their qualification but civilians can up and leave for Canada or Australia the next day.

How can things improve for the health system in the long run, if time and money is spent on training only for them to leave?

Are there similar issues in dental and veterinary services in Ireland?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-03-2016 09:13PM

noodler wrote: »

I think this is an absolute lie and/or rumour.

Postgrads I'm the civil service with degrees start off on less than 600 gross. Per week.

Its a down right lie/spoof.

I'd clean toilets all day, with a toothbrush, for €800 euro a week.

gctest50 · 13-03-2016 09:17PM

Olishi4 wrote: »

Not I mean putting back into the system that spent money on them and investing on their training. In the UK, army doctors who have been supported through university are required to spend some years working before leaving after gaining their qualification but civilians can up and leave for Canada or Australia the next day.

How can things improve for the health system in the long run, if time and money is spent on training only for them to leave?

Are there similar issues in dental and veterinary services in Ireland?

Make it good so they WANT to stay - works much better

Cos of the exodus of staff due to abuse, at the moment the HSE is like the last day of the sales in Smiths toys

all you've left is the old reliables, and a big heap of wonky ones and ones no-one else wants

cazzer22 · 13-03-2016 09:18PM

Primary teacher: If I qualified before 2011 I would be earning 4,000 more than I do right now. I barely have enough money to pay rent at the end of each month. I also have to buy a lot of things for my job that I am never reimbursed for (stationery, rewards and prizes, clothing, printing costs, paper, ink the list goes on). It's a tough job and we never even get considered for over-time. Yes I begin work at 8:30 and I finish teaching at 2:30 but that's when my work officially kicks off. Staff meetings, parent teacher meetings, preparing for the next day, organising work, cleaning my work, making resources etc. I find we are grossly underpaid (particularly when newly qualified)

Olishi4 · 13-03-2016 09:19PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Make it good so they WANT to stay - works much better

Yes but you cannot do that without adequate and sufficient fully trained consultants. If they genuinely want the system to improve, they need to also be a part of making it improve.

A way to do this would be by providing the skills they have achieved and have achieved with the support of the system, back into the system so that you are not relying and over working trainees who leave once qualified because they are exhausted from overtime and being thrown in at the deep end.

KatW4 · 13-03-2016 09:20PM

Specialun wrote:

Teachers get paid for a few months off..think they do ok

Not all of us do.

13-03-2016 09:22PM

Godge wrote: »

...

...

I have heard of general operatives in pharmaceutical plants in Cork being paid 80k.

Indeed, these plants would have relatively few employees relative to manual assembly places and so can afford to reward their staff very well for their endeavours.

A base salary of €45k/annum would be not far off the €80k when you include 33.33% shift premium for a 24/7 pattern, a bit of overtime (42 hour weeks are typical on many 24/7 shift patterns so that's 3 hours OT each week) and a few worked Bank Holidays.

Also their bonus can often be taken in share options and the shares sold after 3 years with no income tax being paid.

Not a bad number if it suits you.

cazzer22 · 13-03-2016 09:25PM

KatW4 wrote: »

Not all of us do.

No we don't. Our salary is staggered (if you're in a contract which allows it) meaning we get less fortnightly to account for this summer pay. I worked a full calendar last year and couldn't do anything during the summer because my salary wasn't staggered (due to the contract I was in). It's also incredibly hard to even get a permanent contract.

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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