Official Conor McGregor thread (part 2). Read warning in 1st post

Swashbuckler · 08-03-2016 11:31PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Obviously nobody knows what is said behind closed doors and what Conor actually thinks or believes, but seeing the way he approached that fight it seems himself and SBG believed he truly had the left hook of Tyson. Because to be fair if he hit harder he would've knocked Nate out in the first. Learning you're not immortal won't be nice for Conor but he should become a better fighter from this. Knowing your limitations is extremely important.

Judging from the advice from Kavanagh after round one I wouldn't blame sbg.

Tazzimus · 08-03-2016 11:33PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Obviously nobody knows what is said behind closed doors and what Conor actually thinks or believes, but seeing the way he approached that fight it seems himself and SBG believed he truly had the left hook of Tyson. Because to be fair if he hit harder he would've knocked Nate out in the first. Learning you're not immortal won't be nice for Conor but he should become a better fighter from this. Knowing your limitations is extremely important.

He has serious power in his left, Nate is just virtually un-knockoutable, as is Nick.

Both of them are famous for two things really, endless cardio and being able to absorb inhuman amounts of damage.

I don't think Nates ever been KO'd has he?
I know theres a TKO or 2 on his record but don't think there's any KO's

Wrongway1985 · 08-03-2016 11:39PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

He has serious power in his left, Nate is just virtually un-knockoutable, as is Nick.

Both of them are famous for two things really, endless cardio and being able to absorb inhuman amounts of damage.

I don't think Nates ever been KO'd has he?
I know theres a TKO or 2 on his record but don't think there's any KO's

No TKO'd just the once I'm pretty sure, in the Josh Thompson fight a well timed headkick ensured his legs buckled and couldn't defend properly the inevitable barrage, even though the ref was waving it away a towel was being chucked in behind him also

darced · 08-03-2016 11:42PM

This post has been deleted.

RedemptionZ · 08-03-2016 11:58PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

He has serious power in his left, Nate is just virtually un-knockoutable, as is Nick.

Both of them are famous for two things really, endless cardio and being able to absorb inhuman amounts of damage.

I don't think Nates ever been KO'd has he?
I know theres a TKO or 2 on his record but don't think there's any KO's

He has a good bit of power relative to his size, but he's still a small fighter. Your ability to take a punch may improve the bigger you are, but nowhere near the degree that your KO power would improve the bigger you are.

Basically what I'm saying is if Nate was a HW he'd be getting knocked out a lot more frequently. Hell, in WW against top competition Nate would get knocked out. Fighting in LW means yeah it's unlikely he would. Sort of like Conor was able to eat some serious shots from Mendes in their fight and not get rocked.

StringerBell · 09-03-2016 12:00AM

Nate didn't exactly have any training coming in to this fight and was partying and relaxing the week before, he wasn't particularly active in the first round and actually details why himself in interviews. He has excellent cardio in general though as does his brother and since Conor was missing a lot and hitting glove, not being able to deal with the range well he didn't have to expend that much energy, he came to life in the second round and started to find his target himself with regularity and got in to a rhythm. He rocked McGregor big time with a left and went for the kill after that.

Couldn't make much comment in regard to how he spars, as in hard or light, going off that fight.

I doubt he did any heavy sparring in fight week.

Conor always says he can go all day, he gassed pretty quick probably due to a variety of reasons, missing too many big punches was certainly a big factor, the punch to the jaw that rattled him also seemed to drain him of whatever he had left, he was fighting on instinct, in panic mode and trying to survive.

When people get injured that are known to spar hard they get criticised, when people gas quickly in heavy fights they are criticised if they only do mostly light sparring. Most of the time there are lots of reasons though it is easier for soundbites to try dumb it down to one or two.

Gamebred · 09-03-2016 12:04AM

He fought Aldo 2 and a half months ago,take away down time after it and 2 weeks before this fight,thats 4 of them weeks he wasnt doing hard training for definite (maybe,im guessing)

There is no way your body can being in prime shape fighting 12kg heavier than your used to,not a hope in hell,to build up the cardio and strength for that it would take at least a few months of training,what I also wonder is did he slack on actual cardio training because he didnt have as much weight to cut as usual?

All could be reasons for the poor performance and again taking nothing away from Diaz who had every excuse not to win.

Swashbuckler · 09-03-2016 12:07AM

darced wrote: »

You cant compare boxing to MMA, boxers train for one discipline only. In MMA you are required to punch, kick, wrestle, scramble and fight against the cage. It is extremely difficult to prepare for cardio wise. Any overexertion in one aspect can have a domino effect and lead to the best prepared fighter gassing.

Anyone any thoughts on the training approaches of both fighters in relation to gas tanks, Conor as we know spars light while the Diaz brothers are from boxing backgrounds and from anything Ive seen spar hard?

My sense is the Diaz brothers are very much focused on pure cardio training. Lots of boxing and rolling on the mats. A lot of what I've seen with Conor is mix of cardio, strength and conditioning, flexibility etc. I could be completely wrong though. In terms of gas tanks well I don't think the Diaz brothers load up on punches. High volume, relatively low power. I'm not sure Saturday night was a true reflection of Conor's gas tank. It would be interesting to see him next time at 155 with longer time for his body to adjust to the extra weight.

Swashbuckler · 09-03-2016 12:11AM

Gamebred wrote: »

He fought Aldo 2 and a half months ago,take away down time after it and 2 weeks before this fight,thats 4 of them weeks he wasnt doing hard training for definite (maybe,im guessing)

There is no way your body can being in prime shape fighting 12kg heavier than your used to,not a hope in hell,to build up the cardio and strength for that it would take at least a few months of training,what I also wonder is did he slack on actual cardio training because he didnt have as much weight to cut as usual?

All could be reasons for the poor performance and again taking nothing away from Diaz who had every excuse not to win.

This is what confuses me about the whole thing. Do you reckon he was fighting 12kg heavier??? I would have thought he fought Aldo at around 165? I can't understand how he weighed in at 167 on Saturday.

ceecee14 · 09-03-2016 12:16AM

Yea, people on here always saying he's around 160 in the ring for FW fights and that he walks around at 170, so how, after 2 months of bulking up, steak all day every day, He didn't gain any weight at all really?

Ash.J.Williams · 09-03-2016 12:22AM

Would cutting down to fw for ufc200 have a similar effect on his fitness as moving up did against diaz? I'm also wondering would the lack of weight cutting for conor for the 170 effectively change his pre-fight routine as the weight cut must have been such a huge part of his fw pre fight dicipline.

darced · 09-03-2016 12:24AM

This post has been deleted.

Mellor · 09-03-2016 06:23AM

TheNap wrote: »

Cant agree . He would still have came in close to 169 come fight night . He also wouldnt have been caught with as many punches due to being in better condition.

Diaz wasn't than 169 last weekend. That's the point I was making.

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I think it is the bottom line - he needs to be able to go more than 2 rounds - it's as simple as that.

MMA requires 5 rounds and 5 minutes....Football requires you to be fit for 90 minutes....Rugby is 80 minutes...Do you think in other sports they tolerate someone saying they can only last 40% of what is required?

It's not as simply as that. Football, tennis, rugby all take place a similar pace from game to game for a reason. If a team tried to speed up play, they'd exhaust themselves quicker, but there's no way to win the match any sooner.

An MMA fight is more like running a race of unknown distance. You take off at whatever speed you want, and the refs tells you when you've crossed the finish line.

If Usain bolt started a 5km race, but took off at his sprint pace, he'd gas out very quickly and the lead he built up would disappear by the 2km mark when the field cruised past him.
Nobody would look at that and say Bolt needs to work on his fitness, it would be fairly obvious that he messed up his pacing. That's exactly what happened with McGregor, but because the physical drain of loading up is invisible. People are blaming fitness.

Mellor · 09-03-2016 06:35AM

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I'm watching MMA about 15 years and the first things I noticed is that he was off his game going to 170, but he looked decent in the first round although he was overstretching looking for a knockout and wasting a lot of energy.

However, Diaz is one tough SOB. He has deceptively strong punches and his ground game was excellent. Conor's ground game is rubbish. I honestly don't know how he is a brown belt in BJJ.

The first things you learn are don't give away your back ever and he didn't even attempt to drop his chin and attempt to stop Diaz from locking in the choke.

I'm glad this was a non title fight and at an uncomfortable weight for him. I guarantee that he will come back much much better as a result of this.

Having said all that, many of the UFC fighters are a bit clueless when it comes to Jiu jitsu basics! I have only a yellow belt (I missed 2 gradings due to injury :mad: ), but they seem to be devoid of basic submission reversals.

This post was really confused me at first. You mentioned watching MMA for 15 years, but then reference your jiu jitus yellow belt, which is only available for under 16s.
But I see after you are referring to japanese jiu jitsu.

In a nutshell, you are way off the mark here. It's easy to say "don't give your back, drop your chin, do a reversal" when you are dealing with a compliant opponent in a kata. It's significantly harder in verses an opponent with high level jiu jitsu who forces the errors, and exponentially harder when he is punching you.

Is there full contact sparring/rolling for yellow belts in JJJ? Genuine question as I don;t know. But I've seen lots of people from other backgrounds train n all sorts of bizarre defenses that "work" when the practice them them with a partner, but have no hope in hell verses a resisting opponent.
What would you have done differently? Say from the time Nate sat back for the guillotine.

Martypants1 · 09-03-2016 09:44AM

Strange time for that budweiser ad to be released after he gets beat.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 10:38AM

Mellor wrote: »

Diaz wasn't than 169 last weekend. That's the point I was making.

It's not as simply as that. Football, tennis, rugby all take place a similar pace from game to game for a reason. If a team tried to speed up play, they'd exhaust themselves quicker, but there's no way to win the match any sooner.

An MMA fight is more like running a race of unknown distance. You take off at whatever speed you want, and the refs tells you when you've crossed the finish line.

If Usain bolt started a 5km race, but took off at his sprint pace, he'd gas out very quickly and the lead he built up would disappear by the 2km mark when the field cruised past him.
Nobody would look at that and say Bolt needs to work on his fitness, it would be fairly obvious that he messed up his pacing. That's exactly what happened with McGregor, but because the physical drain of loading up is invisible. People are blaming fitness.

I don't think anyone is crazy enough to claim that McGregor isn't fit but, to use your own analogy, I think McGregor is very much used to sprints and not marathons. He trains for sprints; quick finishes, 1st or 2nd round knockouts. I'm not sh1tting on his fitness levels but a little more endurance training might not go astray.

In the thread for the recent fight I mentioned that I reckon it's a pride thing. He didn't want to go for the full 5 rounds and win on points, he didn't even want to go for 2 rounds. He didn't just want to win, he wanted to be able to say he destroyed Nate in 1 round.

Bunny Colvin · 09-03-2016 11:06AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RviOwY0OKyE

Entrance music was nice too.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 11:10AM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Strange time for that budweiser ad to be released after he gets beat.

Drink enough Budweiser and you'll be just like Conor McGregor: flat on your back and barely conscious!

*I'm actually a McGregor fan but that line was ripe for the taking and I couldn't resist :P

sReq | uTeK · 09-03-2016 11:14AM

Myrddin wrote: »

I took that as a very accurate analysis by Conor. He certainly wasn't efficient with his energy, he loaded up power shot after power shot, and tried to KO Nate. Conor, by saying what he said, is acknowledging that this tactic was flawed, and he underestimated Nate's ability to weather power shots. I feel it was an admission by Conor that his game plan was very wrong, & that he underestimated Nate. I believe fighting at 170 only aided his gassing too, all that muscle needs oxygen after all.

Do I think he could beat Nate again? Yeah, I think he could, but not in the way he'd like to. To beat Nate, Conor would have to essentially play it round by round, playing the points game. I don't think he can KO Nate, & I think Nate with a full camp and at 155 would be a step up again for Conor. I think from it all, Conor will learn from it, & come back stronger. He's arguably guilty of getting a bit complacent given how well he has done, but I think nobody knows that now better than him. That can be fixed, & it probably already has been by now truth be told.

His next fight has a serious monkey on its back though, Edgar or Aldo will go into the fight with the bit between their teeth, & Conor will be carrying the weight of his first loss in UFC. It'll be a fascinating, but hugely important fight for him. Two losses in a row, & one back at 145, would be pretty bad.

Very good, I liked your loading up comment. It's funny you mention this. I watched Frampton v Quig a few weeks ago, and you could see the commentator saying "Quig is loading up for a big one" It's very noticeable the difference in boxing in that they only load up maybe once or twice every round (If both boxers are of equal skill are are mindful of getting caught)

It just seems conor tried "too hard" if thats the correct wording. Anyway, I do think that in life you need setbacks to grow and learn, that's all I'd classify this as. A learning experience with nothing really to lose (in terms of titles) and one hell of a payday to gain.

Regards

Effects · 09-03-2016 12:16PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Strange time for that budweiser ad to be released after he gets beat.

It was probably all ready to roll out anyway. They expected a win for Conor but had to go with the campaign anyway.
What's the problem? He's still the champion.

Mellor · 09-03-2016 12:35PM

JustShon wrote: »

I don't think anyone is crazy enough to claim that McGregor isn't fit but, to use your own analogy, I think McGregor is very much used to sprints and not marathons. He trains for sprints; quick finishes, 1st or 2nd round knockouts. I'm not sh1tting on his fitness levels but a little more endurance training might not go astray.

You say people are crazy enough to claim its fitness. Then in the very next line you do exactly that.

How exactly do you suggest he trains for sprints and quick finishes specifically?
That would mean doing short hard rounds in training, with long rests. I've seen nothing to suggest he trains like that tbh.

A quick finish was how he approached the fight, but claiming he trains like that is highly speculative tbh.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 12:40PM

Mellor wrote: »

You say people are crazy enough to claim its fitness. Then in the very next line you do exactly that.

How exactly do you suggest he trains for sprints and quick finishes specifically?
That would mean doing short hard rounds in training, with long rests. I've seen nothing to suggest he trains like that tbh.

A quick finish was how he approached the fight, but claiming he trains like that is highly speculative tbh.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's used to expending all his energy in one go. When was the last time (or the first) that he had to do a full 5 rounds? When was the last time it even went to 3?

You're right, I am just speculating on his training but considering how he, so far, tries to end fight so quickly I don't see him having trained for longer fights. Why would he when he usually destroys his opponents in a round or two?

Mellor · 09-03-2016 12:52PM

JustShon wrote: »

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's used to expending all his energy in one go. When was the last time (or the first) that he had to do a full 5 rounds? When was the last time it even went to 3?

You are confusing his fights with his training. He has spent less than one hour in the UFC octagon. Since signing for the UFC, he has maybe had 1000+ training hours. His fight time is such a small portion of his training, that it co tributes nothing to his fitness/stamina.

You're right, I am just speculating on his training but considering how he, so far, tries to end fight so quickly I don't see him having trained for longer fights. Why would he when he usually destroys his opponents in a round or two?

Why would he? Because what you are suggesting is simple not how you get better at fighting.

Going balls out for 60seconds trying to take the head off your training partner, then recovering for 5mins and repeating a few times, at most will get help your power. But it'll do little for actual ability.

BJJ/MMA training involves long technical sessions, drilling little details, rounds and rounds of sparring/rolling with fresh partners, etc.
McGregor mentioned on embedded that they were doing 4 hour sessions leading up to the fight.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 01:03PM

Mellor wrote: »

You are confusing his fights with his training. He has spent less than one hour in the UFC octagon. Since signing for the UFC, he has maybe had 1000+ training hours.

Sure, but it depends on what kind of training he's been doing; power vs accuracy, endurance etc. His aim has so far been to end his fights early.

It's just speculation like you said but it seems unlikely to me that he's been training to outlast his opponents in the octagon.

Mellor · 09-03-2016 01:13PM

JustShon wrote: »

Sure, but it depends on what kind of training he's been doing; power vs accuracy, endurance etc. His aim has so far been to end his fights early.

It's just speculation like you said but it seems unlikely to me that he's been training to outlast his opponents in the octagon.

I hit send a bit early on the above post. Was adding the rest in, it covers the above.

While it's not impossible that someone could train like that. I've seen enough of Conor training and SBG in general to be pretty sure that he doesn't do that.
And if he did, I dont think he'd have turned out as good as he did.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 01:16PM

Mellor wrote: »

I hit send a bit early on the above post. Was adding the rest in, it covers the above.

While it's not impossible that someone could train like that. I've seen enough of Conor training and SBG in general to be pretty sure that he doesn't do that.
And if he did, I dont think he'd have turned out as good as he did.

Fair enough, didn't catch your edit.

So do you reckon that Conor's own assessment was correct then? That it was simply a misuse of his energy?

GiftofGab · 09-03-2016 01:31PM

So guys, this probably deserves its own thread but who would you like to see at UFC 200.

My ideal card would be:
Lawler vs GSP
McGregor vs Aldo
RDA vs Diaz
Edgar vs Holloway

Martypants1 · 09-03-2016 01:32PM

Off topic but I despise those cnuts from punditarena who have a facebook page for conor mcgregor set up and link articles to their site. ****.

Tazzimus · 09-03-2016 01:32PM

JustShon wrote: »

Sure, but it depends on what kind of training he's been doing; power vs accuracy, endurance etc. His aim has so far been to end his fights early.

It's just speculation like you said but it seems unlikely to me that he's been training to outlast his opponents in the octagon.

Every fighters aim is to end fights early.

Earlier you can end fights = More fights you can have = More money you can make.

I've watched him train and he doesn't train to last a round or two, that's just been the outcome of his fights.

JustShon · 09-03-2016 01:33PM

GiftofGab wrote: »

So guys, this probably deserves its own thread but who would you like to see at UFC 200.

My ideal card would be:
Lawler vs GSP
McGregor vs Aldo
RDA vs Diaz
Edgar vs Holloway

I'd be happy with all of those to be honest. I'm new to the sport (yes I'm one of the McGregor influx) and I've found I really like GSP.

I'd love to see a McGregor v Aldo rematch just because I felt let down by that fight. Sure I was delighted McGregor won but I was really hoping to get more than 13 seconds of action y'know?

Official Conor McGregor thread (part 2). **Read warning in 1st post**

Comments

Official Conor McGregor thread (part 2). Read warning in 1st post